Stellantis Electric Vehicle Day on July 8, 1 hour before Wall Street open

[redriderbob]

Have you seen them in Europe?

I don't want to. All I know is Jared texted me it was $200 CAD to fill up his pickup in Canada the other day.

 

[redriderbob]

View attachment 4832
Hammerhead sharks mentioned (must be a hint), and return of the Fratzog!

Give me a turbocharged GME-T6 with PHEV!

 

[jeepmynach]

My views regarding PSA were not appreciated on the other forum either, however FCA needed a kick in the direction of EV's in general. Not sure about PSA or their technology as I am of the opinion that FCA products by and large are superior to those of PSA if less "cutting edge" in design. The new 500 clearly illustrates what FCA can do - and do way better than PSA according to the European press it is simply the best EV city car.

 

[cygnus]

Chrysler Airflow is STLA Large? It seems like a STLA Medium to me.

Is there any North American product that is anything other than STLA Large?

 

[AlexB]

Chrysler Airflow is STLA Large? It seems like a STLA Medium to me.

Is there any North American product that is anything other than STLA Large?

Yeah skipped the Chrysler for time.
But Airflow is comes off as STLA Medium.
STLA Large can go down to midsize (D-Segment) as management mentioned .
With a unique offering with the Midsize pickup (RWD/AWD Ridgeline competitor), I wonder capacity.
Could Challenger be moved to Italy or Germany (Charger won’t because of various North American Government Fleets)?

 

[AlexB]

Watched some of the Q&A, basically questions swing from “why not faster/ higher take rate for EV” to “help us with our (analyst) guidance estimate/ Earnings Per Share homework”.
In my opinion the Stock Analyst suck today.

 

[AlexB]

Just like most other automakers thus far today

Stock market been rough the last two weeks.

 

[AlexB]

Electric Dodge is one of google’s top searches of the day.

 

[pumadog]

To get more clarity, the presentation:

https://www.stellantis.com/content/dam/stellantis-corporate/investors/events/stellantis-ev-day-2021/ev_day_2021_presentation_slides.pdf

Some bits which might not be clear:

• The powertrains ("EDM") are not fixed to the platforms, but modular elements. So EDM #2 can be used in STLA Small, Medium and Large. STLA Medium can use EDM #2 and EDM #3. > Page 32
• The EDMs and platforms allow FWD, RWD, AWD, and 4Xe (ICE/EV Plugin Hybrid) application. > Page 30
• The drive ranges of STLA Medium and STLA Large overlap, obviously depends on vehicle size rather than Platform. > Page 23
• Page 27 shows another Chrysler concept.

I don't have such a catastrophic vision for Alfa as Bili has.
It was specified that the STLA Medium platform allows for RWD configuration, and in BEVs it's easier to shape the proportions of a car. However, the STLA Medium platform allows for less range than the STLA Large meaning that Alfas will be less suited for the US markets if they don't launch nothing in the STLA Large platform. It seems that they will make Alfa an european brand only, again.

As I understand the presentation, a midsize car would have around 100 kWh, no matter if on STLA Medium or Large. The 100 km extra of Large should come with more size.

So according to this presentation with modular platforms, powertrains and driveline flexibility it can't be just evolutions of EMP and Giorgio. It's a whole new approach.

 

[Deckard Cain]

If they force EVs on everyone, governments may help make this actually happen.

40% eletrified vehicles in the US by 2030 is not "forcing it on everyone".
Stellantis would be shooting themselves in the foot if they didn't push forward with electrification.

 

[Deckard Cain]

To get more clarity, the presentation:

https://www.stellantis.com/content/dam/stellantis-corporate/investors/events/stellantis-ev-day-2021/ev_day_2021_presentation_slides.pdf

Some bits which might not be clear:

• The powertrains ("EDM") are not fixed to the platforms, but modular elements. So EDM #2 can be used in STLA Small, Medium and Large. STLA Medium can use EDM #2 and EDM #3. > Page 32
• The EDMs and platforms allow FWD, RWD, AWD, and 4Xe (ICE/EV Plugin Hybrid) application. > Page 30
• The drive ranges of STLA Medium and STLA Large overlap, obviously depends on vehicle size rather than Platform. > Page 23
• Page 27 shows another Chrysler concept.

As I understand the presentation, a midsize car would have around 100 kWh, no matter if on STLA Medium or Large. The 100 km extra of Large should come with more size.

So according to this presentation with modular platforms, powertrains and driveline flexibility it can't be just evolutions of EMP and Giorgio. It's a whole new approach.

So this means that we can have lets say an Alfa Q built on the STLA Medium with the EDM3 engine? This opens a lot more possibilities for a new Giulia Q EV and specialty Alfas, even if they share more with DS than Maserati.
And if the EDM2 can be used on STLA Small then we will still have hot hatches in Europe. Peugeot e208 GTI (the GTI was one of the most iconic Peugeots), 500e Abarth, Punto Abarth, Giulietta Q EV?
I'm seeing a lot of possibilities with this presentation.

 

[pumadog]

According to this: Yes!

They announced Abarth going electric in 2024. But I guess that's on e-Mini (current 500e).

I don't think they installed a prominent Alfa North America manager if the brand was to fade out there.

 

[patfromigh]

40% eletrified vehicles in the US by 2030 is not "forcing it on everyone".
Stellantis would be shooting themselves in the foot if they didn't push forward with electrification.

Stellantis is pushing with electrification, but which direction is open for debate. The old FCA was heavily involved in electrification and had chosen a path of mild hybrids, plugin hybrids and had recently introduced the the battery electric Fiat 500e and eDucato. The Gen 4-ZF hybrid transmission is waiting in the wings for Jeep and Ram, and was planned for Dodge and Alfa as well, but now that seems doubtful. There was no mention of the contributions the FCA side has made towards electrification. I find this disheartening.

Here in the United States, battery electric is being forced on everyone. The regulators have dictated solutions to remake the entire country into the Acela Corridor.

 

[Deckard Cain]

The STLA Small seems to be the platform of the 500e.
As for the Plug-ins since they are going to launch so many in the US, they at least seem to admit that the strategy there was working well.

 

[Deckard Cain]

According to this: Yes!

They announced Abarth going electric in 2024. But I guess that's on e-Mini (current 500e).

I don't think they installed a prominent Alfa North America manager if the brand was to fade out there.

I hope it doesn't fade. IMO, it would be a waste. Especially now that Alfa sales seem to be picking up pace and the Tonale will arrive next year.

 

[Bili]

To get more clarity, the presentation:

https://www.stellantis.com/content/dam/stellantis-corporate/investors/events/stellantis-ev-day-2021/ev_day_2021_presentation_slides.pdf

Some bits which might not be clear:

• The powertrains ("EDM") are not fixed to the platforms, but modular elements. So EDM #2 can be used in STLA Small, Medium and Large. STLA Medium can use EDM #2 and EDM #3. > Page 32
• The EDMs and platforms allow FWD, RWD, AWD, and 4Xe (ICE/EV Plugin Hybrid) application. > Page 30
• The drive ranges of STLA Medium and STLA Large overlap, obviously depends on vehicle size rather than Platform. > Page 23
• Page 27 shows another Chrysler concept.

As I understand the presentation, a midsize car would have around 100 kWh, no matter if on STLA Medium or Large. The 100 km extra of Large should come with more size.

So according to this presentation with modular platforms, powertrains and driveline flexibility it can't be just evolutions of EMP and Giorgio. It's a whole new approach.

It's not a new approach. They are combining some of PSA and FCA engineering approach.

But clearly EMP2 and Giorgio were used as base for new platforms.
Actually this is more like FCA's understanding of platform term. Platform is not something static, it evolves over the time.

Anyway for BEV only brands, and there will be such brands or at least models, this multienergy platform approach is wrong. For such brands/models dedicate BEV is way to go but Stellantis didn't decide to go that route.

 

[pumadog]

Of course it's based on their existing tech and experiences. But it's not just normal evolutions of the current platforms with that modular platform/EDM/battery/driveline matrix across the range. I think they made the decision to bring BEV+PHEV platforms after much thinking. Otherwise consumers would have less powertrain choice and they would have to keep the double amount of platforms up-to-date. Every new model has only one option instead of all. There wouldn't be two Stelvio successors (BEV + ICE). And the pictures of the STLA Large platform don't look like a compromise for the PHEV installation. Who knows how that version differs?

 

[cygnus]

@redriderbob - are you still hearing GME T-6 + PHEV unveil on Grand Wagoneer this Fall?

 

[Bili]

Of course it's based on their existing tech and experiences. But it's not just normal evolutions of the current platforms with that modular platform/EDM/battery/driveline matrix across the range. I think they made the decision to bring BEV+PHEV platforms after much thinking. Otherwise consumers would have less powertrain choice and they would have to keep the double amount of platforms up-to-date. Every new model has only one option instead of all. There wouldn't be two Stelvio successors (BEV + ICE). And the pictures of the STLA Large platform don't look like a compromise for the PHEV installation. Who knows how that version differs?

EDM, battery cells and so on. Look at it as on the engine. You share it between different platforms. So nothing new. Of course that they will bring commonalization to bring costs down.

Both Medium and Large predate Stellantis but some component development started by Stellantis like battery cells and electric motor. But for Large, which is actually nothing more than another Giorgio fork, inverter technology, three electric motors, 800V and more will be already present on Maserati products next year, Giorgio fork(s) products.

Better battery integration for BEV models had already started independently by FCA and PSA and was green lit before the merger. I'm the one who said that batteries will be flat in the floor. That's something which is not present on current generation PSA or FCA platforms except for Fiat eMini which is used for the new electric 500. Yes, I'm the one who said that 500 BEV (eMini) is at higher evolutionary step than PSA e-CMP.

@KrisW is sure that STLA Small is nothing more than eMini evolution. Maybe he can type more about it.

According to Stellantis PHEV should be phased out by 2029 or 2030. After that date BEV will be the only choice for what they call Zero Emission Vehicle.

 

[pumadog]

We might mean the same thing in the end. When calling it evolution, those evo steps look far bigger than one could have feared with renamed current platforms in your mind. From what is on the market/public: eMini doesn't offer PHEV currently, CMP neither, EMP2 doesn't offer BEV, Giorgio no major electrification at all. Now all will have flat floor batteries and even FWD/RWD/AWD flexibility. I'd say it could be much worse.

Did you realise that for BEV product they showed mostly FCA models (much 500, Ducato) in the films, despite having much more PSA product on the EV market?