Stellantis Electric Vehicle Day on July 8, 1 hour before Wall Street open

[Ryan]

So if TESLA is the best that the BEV industry has to offer and I demonstrate that you're like 50,000% more likely to die in a TESLA than in a big Mercedes, then I'm a hater?

No worries, I'm used to these type of responses...."you hater" or "you conspiracy theorist"....all because I believe that folks should be told the truth......like Barrett Riley's father who thought he was buying the safest possible car for his son...the car least likely to catch on fire....and now his son is dead because the media did not allow the truth to be spoken....because the precious BEVs need to be protected no matter how many American children die.

Just because you think you're saying the truth doesn't make it so. What you call the truth, the rest of us call a theory. It's dangerous to confuse the two terms.

Confirmation bias is also a real thing.

 

[TripleT]

Tesla are well engineered but poorly built. When the people who are good at building cars and fully invested it will be interesting to see if Tesla survives, or appropriately up the manufacturing capablity.

There is no getting around it that Batteries are a massive hazard and are categorized as such for transport (but what would I know about that ) it is a bit interesting that if your sitting on it, it magically becomes less a hazard compared to in a truck trailer.

The potential energy is immense and electric fire to a dead short is extremely hard deal with and can ignite many of the light weight metal in a modern car.

On the subject of Truth.... did you know that something can be True but not factual. People often think that words are interchangeable. But they are distinctly different. True is archery term, which in it root means to be on target. Factual is often what people intend to say when they use truth.

 

[AlexB]

Yes, all the scientists at all the world's EPAs agree on their MPGe formulation....thus they are all lying. This is because any real scientist that did not agree with them was fired and branded a conspiracy theorist. I was branded a conspiracy theorist by all the scientists at the WHO last year because all the doctors I talked to agreed with me that COVID19 was cultured in a lab.

Yes, human events accelerate climate change. We should force everyone to take cold showers and never to boil any water and never to cook any meat. Also, we should immediately stop pursuing fusion energy research because it relies 100% on heating and evaporating liquids so it will be far worse for global warming g than any other energy source.

Yes, clearly you cannot have a rational discussion with someone who states that there is a lot of smoke and mirrors when it comes to BEVs. The truth is inconvenient.

If you practiced what you preached, you should be outraged at the fact that TESLA received tens of thousands of dollars for each TESLA sold in ZEV credits that were nothing short of ransom payments from automakers who did not want to participate in the BEV human experiment.

Myself, I'm outraged that we're burning through our children's and our children's children fossil fuel reserves twice as fast because political scientists decided that power plants need to capture CO2 in order to make them less efficient. Now, our power plants need to burn twice as much fuel (CO2 capture is very energy intensive) to make the same amount of electricity and it has nothing to do with pollution and everything to do with making fossil fuel use less efficient (because the Dems decided that Russia is bad and China is good). I'm even more outraged at the fact that China is destroying the world's oceans at an alarming rate and all the socialists are in bed with China and empowering China to do all these evil things.....socialists like CNN, BBC, FB, Google, Obamas, etc.

George Soros is a personal friend of Stellantis’s largest investor.
You would never buy Michigan 3 Legacy OEM vehicle if you understand family ownership or the one with non-family ownership usage of Chinese Manufacturing (Hint ….Mary)…...

Yet you is on a Michigan Legacy 3 fan website.

 

[patfromigh]

Our state governor got his knickers in a bunch when the legislature fired his environmental chief over EV mandates. He used the terms climate deniers. The truth is the governor and his administration deny that reality of we don't have enough suitable charging infrastructure. They are forcing people to buy cars without doing anything to support the technology change beyond some token photo ops. Their high voltage chargers purchased for transit buses are literally blowing up in their faces.

This battery electric technology fetish is a COS. When pundits, politicians and regulators are advocating funding the removal of wire catenary powered locomotives and other vehicles with battery electric units, that is politics and profiteering, not engineering. I understand having some battery backup in a vehicle, but removing the wires on a legacy system is foolish. If the source of electricity is dirty, that can be changed, but changing the end use vehicle is stupid.

I might buy the right BEV when available and I have a means to refuel it. As a taxpayer I hate paying for someone else's white elephant.

 

[TripleT]

OEM are very excited in a way for the Electric conversion. Manufacturing complexity and SKUs great diminish .... but again the logistics of the batteries offsets some of it.

 

[VinDiesel]

Our state governor got his knickers in a bunch when the legislature fired his environmental chief over EV mandates. He used the terms climate deniers. The truth is the governor and his administration deny that reality of we don't have enough suitable charging infrastructure. They are forcing people to buy cars without doing anything to support the technology change beyond some token photo ops. Their high voltage chargers purchased for transit buses are literally blowing up in their faces.

This battery electric technology fetish is a COS. When pundits, politicians and regulators are advocating funding the removal of wire catenary powered locomotives and other vehicles with battery electric units, that is politics and profiteering, not engineering. I understand having some battery backup in a vehicle, but removing the wires on a legacy system is foolish. If the source of electricity is dirty, that can be changed, but changing the end use vehicle is stupid.

I might buy the right BEV when available and I have a means to refuel it. As a taxpayer I hate paying for someone else's white elephant.

Yes, but would you rather pay much higher taxes while others pay much less and participate in a cancer study or would you prefer to take a big tax break and be subjected to such experimentation yourself? There is no question that long term exposure to powerful EMF has a deleterious effect on our immune system. The only question is what intensity and what duration of exposure. A golf cart is probably safe for frequent use....but the back seats in a TESLA are a big worry. EMF intensity diminishes by a factor that is a cube of the separation distance, so the guy driving the TESLA gets an EMF dose from the rear electric motor that is more than 10,000% weaker than what his kids get in the back seat.

I have no problem paying higher taxes and paying for all the roads and bridges with my gas tax while the guy driving a TESLA gets a free ride. However, we should still inform the guy driving his TESLA that he should not strap his kids in those highly energized rear seats.

Finally, so how does this "you've been banned" thing work on this website? I'm surprised it took them this long to silence me...like 3 hours.....and is it temporary?

The Truth Shall Set You Free

 

[Ryan]

I prefer we stick with cars, as this seems to be divisive issue that people seem to have strong opinions on both side, with very poor handle of the facts and even less of the actual science.

Yes, let's do that. This should not be a political issue, but it's unfortunately so divisive that it's hard to have a discussion without politics being drawn into the discussion.

I don't want to lock this thread because EV day had some big announcements for the company, so if anyone wants to discuss further, let's do it privately in a PM.

 

[AlexB]

Back to thread:
My guess is Charger and Challenger will have multiple EV options in addition to PHEV. Different Local & State Governments will love having the choice especially for Charger.
If Ford goes pure EV on 2029 Mustang (rumor I’m hearing) Stellantis will to offer need more EV range & power choices.

 

[Ryan]

Back to thread:
My guess is Charger and Challenger will have multiple EV options in addition to PHEV. Different Local & State Governments will love having the choice especially for Charger.
If Ford goes pure EV on 2029 Mustang (rumor I’m hearing) Stellantis will to offer need more EV range & power choices.

I think @Bili mentioned it first, but what if they make a Cuda the BEV and give Charger and Challenger PHEV variants?

 

[ChargerFan1]

Model 3 build "quality"

 

[patfromigh]

Since it was brought up, EVs do get a tax break as far as fuel and also they receive government subsidies. This situation won't last as more people adopt electrification. While a number of politicians actually believe there really is such a thing as a free lunch, the party won't last. The free lunch I'm referring to is the VW diesel lawsuit settlement money. Much of it is used to fund the Electrify America EV charging network. I don't know if any taxes are collected from those stations. Unfortunately, this gives Electrify America a favored child status with various levels of government. The legacy network in my area doesn't charge anything. The software in the charging stations do have the ability to collect fuel taxes. So in some localities there is no charge for charging although it is painfully slow, while another network receives special status. Where do the tax paying businesses fit into all this?

The US Department of Energy successfully demonstrated creating an alternative fuel refilling network with natural gas. The same thing could be done for EVs. If fuel centers, convenience stores, truck stops and gas stations had some high voltage DC chargers, they would be better equipped to collect a fuel tax because they do that for petroleum fuels and CNG already. I'm not saying such businesses should be forced to have such charging units, but there should be a way to make this a practical reality. What is being done now in North America is not sustainable. (Using the favorite environmentalist phrase.) Everybody needs to pay their share of road use tax. The market should decide where charging stations should go, not centralized planners.

I know that my reply is off topic to the thread, but electrification will save the muscle car, whether it is mild hybrid, plugin hybrid or battery electric. A robust charging infrastructure will save electrification.

 

[Mopar392]

I think @Bili mentioned it first, but what if they make a Cuda the BEV and give Charger and Challenger PHEV variants?

I don't know who mentioned it and where, but someone said that STLA platform/architecture could be an additional line and not replacement per se, at least not for every market.

So We could see the next Charger and Challenger on their ICE designated platform/architecture, but we'll have an EV version for the whomever like it.

 

[Bili]

STLA platforms are multienergy platforms. They are not dedicated BEV platforms. But battery integration is very similar to a dedicated BEV platforms.

Basically the best of both worlds but only if they use it in such way. If nameplates on it are not BEV only.

 

[cgseller]

Wait what your saying is producing rotational energy through the conversion of water to steam, sending it hundreds of miles away with all the line loses, then stepping it down, put it into storage device and then converting it back to rotational energy may be subject to efficiency loses that are not full accounted for vs locally produced rotation energy through a thermal reaction.

Hmmmmm maybe

From the whole picture view, is the entire system of harvesting potential energy (and the cost/impact of that), delivering that energy (transforming, hauling, transmission, storage), and consumption of that energy at the destination more sustainable (cost, environment, supply, efficiency)?

I feel if we ask does an ICE make pollution; do wind vanes kill birds; do solar panels create waste we make small comparisons that can tell whatever bias we suspect.

 

[TripleT]

it a big deal to have energy storage local, and production local and mobile, and it be on demand. HEY person hundreds of miles away.... I'd like some energy in the form of rotational energy. Could you fire that up for me so I can have the freedom of movement...... very efficient

 

[Ryan]

PSA:

MULTIPLE FORUM ACCOUNTS PER PERSON ARE NOT ALLOWED!

Do not create a separate account so you can post a statement of agreement with something you posted on another account, especially when the entire conversation is off-topic. It's weird and misleading to pretend to be someone else so you can agree with something you said.

 

[ScramFan]

Does anyone know whether the Ducato/Ram Promaster et al full size vans continue on their own completely separate platform, or do they eventually migrate over to STLA Frame? It doesn't seem like STLA Large would be big enough.

Just curious since STLA is such a leader in Vans.

 

[AlexB]

Does anyone know whether the Ducato/Ram Promaster et al full size vans continue on their own completely separate platform, or do they eventually migrate over to STLA Frame? It doesn't seem like STLA Large would be big enough.

Just curious since STLA is such a leader in Vans.

I guess we have to for Carlos full plan, because they did stated RAM brand Management in Auburn Hills is charge of all Global Stellantis LCV responsibilities.

Another thing is if they go the CDRJ Route with European Dealer Network with all the brands in one Dealership with exceptions for Alfa & Maserati (which is the big rumor). If the Dealer network rumor comes true I can see LCV offerings getting converted into simply the RAM brand in Europe.

 

[ScramFan]

I guess we have to for Carlos full plan, because they did stated RAM brand Management in Auburn Hills is charge of all Global Stellantis LCV responsibilities.

Another thing is if they go the CDRJ Route with European Dealer Network with all the brands in one Dealership with exceptions for Alfa & Maserati (which is the big rumor). If the Dealer network rumor comes true I can see LCV offerings getting converted into simply the RAM brand in Europe.

I definitely think it would be a good move to bring all LCV products under the Ram brand, with local regional managers to design for each market.

I wonder if they would consider sharing their next gen van platform with Iveco for the Daily? Just interesting to think about.

 

[pumadog]

RAM might lead the commercial brands direction from the US, but please not lead the engineering of euro-centric products from Fiorino up to the Ducato. Don't fck up the company's most successful (in EU market share) product. About RAM as the brand: It's pretty unknown in Europe, why would a market leader though away all its reputation? Different Badges aren't that expensive. If they had to unify, why not rather FIAT?

There must have been a reason why Ducato and Daily were separate products for decades, even when both were und Fiat Spa. I think the daily is heavier/bigger and even RWD (?)

Interesting story about brand change from FIAT (and others) to IVECO at the German Wiki:

The Daily I was built from 1978 to 1990. The model was originally developed from 1973 by Fiat, Alfa Romeo and Officine Meccaniche as the Fiat S series and was ultimately presented as the Fiat Daily[2]. Until the unified appearance of Iveco, the model was still offered by the Iveco-forming companies, in addition to the Fiat Daily, as the OM Grinta in Italy, Saurer Grinta in Switzerland, and Unic Daily in France; in Germany, the Daily was also sold under the Fiat brand through the Magirus-Deutz service network. Until 1980, the original brand emblem was in the radiator grille and IVECO lettering on the right above the bumper. Then, between 1980 and 1983, the Iveco emblem moved to the radiator grille everywhere and the local brand names took the other place (see picture above). This was intended to slowly accustom customers to the new Iveco brand. From 1990, the local designations were dropped, except for the Alfa Romeo AR8, which was always offered as Alfa Romeo.