Next generation charger?

[Mopar392]

Hornet is one way to lower Dodge’s mpg and emissions numbers as a company.

 

[iDrive]

Yes, like Dart… that I like but with very weak engine options… (a too small 1.4 and a too old 2.4, but at time they didn’t have other choices…)

And with only 2.0 PHEV 4xe options, the avarage mpgs of Dodge would have been even better than with the expected 1.3 PHEV and 2.0 ICE 4wd only options… with much more power outputs, in accordance with the Dodge brand.

I mean, in Stellantis the 2.0 GME engine has 200, 230, 250, 270, 280, 300 and 330hp options… and 4xe or other eAxle PHEV have 60 more HP (Jeep) or 100/160hp (Peugeot), which both (Jeep and Peugeot) are from the same supplier.
So with Stellantis, if they want, they could have a 2.0 PHEV eAxle 4wd from 260 to 490hp. These are, in my opinion, Dodge (and Alfa) power outputs that people are expecting. They are not expecting Toyota power outputs from sports brand like Alfa or Dodge.

 

[TripleT]

If all you look at is current customer base, Dodge is screwed anyway, long term. Time to throw out the FCA branding and stop pretending all Dodge is is a performance brand that sells blue collar hotrods. It's a blue collar brand that has traditionally sold hotrod versions.

No margin in that, the Brand changes has saved the sedan, saved margins., turned the demographic to youth. Your not going out Kia kia, out toyota toyota.

 

[iDrive]

No margin in that, the Brand changes has saved the sedan, saved margins., turned the demographic to youth. Your not going out Kia kia, out toyota toyota.

And made the oldest and « weakest » (prior to FCA) Muscle Car, the best selling one, with fine interior and (record) powerstep update.

I think that today, the Challenger (and also the Charger) is the only one of its kind. The 2 others with « European » taste and 4cil. motors have lost most of there « Muscles ».

 

[AlexB]

I doubt that he will got to pension at age 65. I'm expecting at least few more years from him.

Happy New Year @Bili !
I don’t see Carlos making it to 2026, so the 2024/ 2025 Shareholder meeting (normally at FCA April), which will make him a quite short CEO reign (39-50 months).

 

[James.A]

And made the oldest and « weakest » (prior to FCA) Muscle Car, the best selling one, with fine interior and (record) powerstep update.

I think that today, the Challenger (and also the Charger) is the only one of its kind. The 2 others with « European » taste and 4cil. motors have lost most of there « Muscles ».

If by the other 2 you mean Ford and Chevy - they have affordable V8's. Very much muscle

 

[AlexB]

No margin in that, the Brand changes has saved the sedan, saved margins., turned the demographic to youth. Your not going out Kia kia, out toyota toyota.

Amen and Happy New Year @TripleT.
@HotCarNut @Tony K Happy New Year too y’all too.
I know on “another place” that keeps wanting the old Chrysler/Dodge to return they ignore the NAFTA/North American section of the Capital Junkies presentation. That plan called for the former “Chrysler operations”to reach EBIT Margins To 8%-10% (updated to 10%) Instead they hit 16.3%.
Problem is current profitability & margins would be harmed by a return to such old Chrysler/Dodge lineup which also was a reason not to bring any PSA brands to North America.
After all the guy that hired Sergio is Carlos boss:John Elkann.
Dodge will live or die as a Performance Brand, while Chrysler will live or die as an All Electric Family tech Brand.

 

[AlexB]

If by the other 2 you mean Ford and Chevy - they have affordable V8's. Very much muscle

Not Chevy :Camaro production been hold back in favor of pickup production.
Camaro is a flop too because of the BMW chasing.

 

[James.A]

Not Chevy :Camaro production been hold back in favor of pickup production.
Camaro is a flop too because of the BMW chasing.

Thats a red herring - they make an affordable V8 coupe. They have muscle like Mopar does.

 

[AlexB]

Thats a red herring - they make an affordable V8 coupe. They have muscle like Mopar does.

Not a red herring, the numbers say it all together with GM having no plans for another generation.

 

[James.A]

Not a red herring, the numbers say it all together with GM having no plans for another generation.

It is because they all have it now, "affordable" muscle. The future is not an argument because Dodge is ditching the v8 muscle identity to become a poor man's BMW. 2.0, 3.0 and some unattainably priced v8.

 

[AlexB]

It is because they all have it now, "affordable" muscle. The future is not an argument because Dodge is ditching the v8 muscle identity to become a poor man's BMW. 2.0, 3.0 and some unattainably priced v8.

People didn’t like 6 Gen Camaro packaging both inside and outside in multiple areas (feel, the design, cramp etc).
It will come down to management & execution. Look I respectfully get the feeling you is bored by the Company approach, but that doesn’t make the direction wrong.

 

[iDrive]

It’s the entier line-up that diserve Camaro and Mustang. And they have « European Coupe » size and style. They aren’t American Muscle anymore IMO.

With no 4cil and very bold size and style, and bold motors too, the Charger/Challenger make the difference with record market share/sales.

I hope that the next gen will not have 4cil. (But I have the fear of the 2.0 PHEV…) with only GME T6 and BEV versions. The T6 could have base version of 325/350hp (better if eTorque MHEV) to replace the base 3.6 305hp Pentastar, and T6 top version of 525/540hp (Maybe PHEV) to replace HEMI V8 5.7/6.4 370/485hp versions. And BEV (dual or tri motor) 880/1320hp versions to replace Hellcat/Redeye 717/807hp versions.

 

[James.A]

It’s the entier line-up that diserve Camaro and Mustang. And they have « European Coupe » size and style. They aren’t American Muscle anymore IMO.

With no 4cil and very bold size and style, and bold motors too, the Charger/Challenger make the difference with record market share/sales.

I hope that the next gen will not have 4cil. (But I have the fear of the 2.0 PHEV…) with only GME T6 and BEV versions. The T6 could have base version of 325/350hp (better if eTorque MHEV) to replace the base 3.6 305hp Pentastar, and T6 top version of 525/540hp (Maybe PHEV) to replace HEMI V8 5.7/6.4 370/485hp versions. And BEV (dual or tri motor) 880/1320hp versions to replace Hellcat/Redeye 717/807hp versions.

Neither car is European size, the Mustang is better than previous models in handling but it's not considered a European sports car. Base engines never made a muscle car a muscle car - the V8 did. The Pentastar is not a muscle engine. Horrible arguments. The big three all make muscle, some more traditional than others, but muscle none the less. Dodge will be out of the muscle game in 2 years and your reasoning will come back to haunt.

 

[iDrive]

The 2.3 Ford motor is to little for a Muscle Car and if Stellantis will deliberate a 2.0 Challenger replacement, they will make a big mistake.

BEV are « bold » enough for Muscle, but not the 4cil. engines. Fortunatly they have GME T6 also in program.

 

[Mopar392]

Neither car is European size, the Mustang is better than previous models in handling but it's not considered a European sports car. Base engines never made a muscle car a muscle car - the V8 did. The Pentastar is not a muscle engine. Horrible arguments. The big three all make muscle, some more traditional than others, but muscle none the less. Dodge will be out of the muscle game in 2 years and your reasoning will come back to haunt.

Sure V8 defined the muscle cars, but a lot have agreed that Buick GNX, GMC Syclone and Typhoon were muscle cars and trucks yet they came with a turbo V6.

 

[pumadog]

Actually my brother drives the current Mustang V8 and it is still pretty much an exotic here in Germany. By design and powertrain.
A premium Coupé like the BMW 4 starts with a 184 hp 2.0T without generating image problems in Europe. V6 only left for the high-end versions.

 

[James.A]

I lived in the UK until very recently and there are Mustang GT's all over the place.

 

[pumadog]

There are also quite many in the streets here since it's part of the local Ford portfolio – but it still stands out as an American muscle car, not blending into the regular European coupé market like iDrive suggested.

 

[iDrive]

I don’t say this.

I said that the other Muscle are much less « Muscle » than Challenger, and the sales are saying the same in US.