Charger Daytona delayed? Prototypes supposedly failing.

[scatpack_69]

Elon Musk bought into Trump on the dip because EV’s are dead? Not a chance. They are the future whether we like it or not. Look at the convo here - if not EV then hybrid where the motor doesn’t power the wheels but rather a battery. In the long term electrification is future one way or another.

I’m aware of the convo. And like I said, battery EV is dead. The game is over. Tesla may be the only one that stays BEV but no one else will, they HAVE to be some kind of hybrid.

Daytona sales will suck. And when the Hurricane version comes out, they will suck even worse. No one, NO ONE, is interested in a car that weighs as much as a pickup, trying to flaunt as a “good handling” car, with a limited range and totally inflated price. It’s not happening. Tesla got lucky and was the only show in town, while being falsely propped up by the government for two decades, and caught on as a niche vehicle for people looking to stroke their egos. And it’s worked now…so far. No other manufacturer on Earth has any chance of viability dropping combustion and trying to play the Tesla game. No one.

And if you think Elon is partnered at the hip with Trump because of EV’s and whether or not they’re dead or the future, you’re far more a fool than I’ve given you credit for

 

[James.A]

I’m aware of the convo. And like I said, battery EV is dead. The game is over. Tesla may be the only one that stays BEV but no one else will, they HAVE to be some kind of hybrid.

Daytona sales will suck. And when the Hurricane version comes out, they will suck even worse. No one, NO ONE, is interested in a car that weighs as much as a pickup, trying to flaunt as a “good handling” car, with a limited range and totally inflated price. It’s not happening. Tesla got lucky and was the only show in town, while being falsely propped up by the government for two decades, and caught on as a niche vehicle for people looking to stroke their egos. And it’s worked now…so far. No other manufacturer on Earth has any chance of viability dropping combustion and trying to play the Tesla game. No one.

And if you think Elon is partnered at the hip with Trump because of EV’s and whether or not they’re dead or the future, you’re far more a fool than I’ve given you credit for

There are plenty of new EV's coming from multiple brands and you have to contend with California and the CARB states. Musk will try to hurt his competition in the next 4 years but no guarantees it will work and no guarantees beyond the next 4 years - EV's are still viable and still the future. I'm no EV fan but I'm not going to lie to myself as you are. As for the Daytona, Charger is unique in its class and while I'm definitely not expecting a volume seller unless they bring out a GT model, I doubt they'll end the Daytona for low sales.

 

[Mopar392]

I’m not a fan of EV but I don’t mind the business reason behind having them.
But what annoys me is the sudden and complete shift to EV without regard of multiple key factors, and when you fail and/or the business case fail, you are then stuck with losses

 

[patfromigh]

I'm thinking out loud here. Stellantis has been producing and selling battery electric LCVs in Europe for a few years now. A fully electric Ram ProMaster is now on the market in North America. The Jeep Avenger and its platform cousins all offer battery electric power, as well as the Fiat 500e. Can an electric muscle car and pickup truck be that much harder? Maybe it was how they rushed this stuff out after cutting the engineering ranks.

 

[WXman]

I heard that the Stellantis top leadership was so unhappy about the reviews from press week with the new Charger they've decided to delay it AGAIN and manually software update every single car before sending them to dealers. I don't think I've seen a glowing review of the new car yet. At least not from any reviewers who seemed genuine.

 

[James.A]

I heard that the Stellantis top leadership was so unhappy about the reviews from press week with the new Charger they've decided to delay it AGAIN and manually software update every single car before sending them to dealers. I don't think I've seen a glowing review of the new car yet. At least not from any reviewers who seemed genuine.

So you’re saying that if the review is bad then it’s genuine and if it’s good or decent/balanced it’s not genuine? That sounds awfully biased and not genuine. I saw mostly positive reviews and three that were bad and those three are the only ones making rounds by the haters… just three.

 

[scatpack_69]

So you’re saying that if the review is bad then it’s genuine and if it’s good or decent/balanced it’s not genuine? That sounds awfully biased and not genuine. I saw mostly positive reviews and three that were bad and those three are the only ones making rounds by the haters… just three.

It’s interesting that you have an exact number of “negative reviews” as you call them…pushed by so-called haters (or realists?), yet you lack a specific number for “positive” reviews as you call them.

Now, one could deduce that “mostly positive” indicates an overwhelming number of positive views, thereby making an exact number unlikely to come up with (which we know isn’t the case), or we can deduce that you are completely incapable of an exact number because you haven’t actually watched all reviews; and we also know that the three “negative” reviews aren’t actually negative at all, so this leads us to you’re merely spouting ******** and trying to turn the table on folks that aren’t overly optimistic about the car, which is the overwhelming majority of potential customers.

Most of us are aware enough, intelligent enough, and knowledgeable enough to realize the car just isn’t going to be a major seller until the gas engine comes out. Then and only then can it position to be a decent seller (I suspect either way it won’t sell as well as last gen Charger)

Every post you make on this you lose credibility guy. It’s pathetic

 

[James.A]

It’s interesting that you have an exact number of “negative reviews” as you call them…pushed by so-called haters (or realists?), yet you lack a specific number for “positive” reviews as you call them.

Now, one could deduce that “mostly positive” indicates an overwhelming number of positive views, thereby making an exact number unlikely to come up with (which we know isn’t the case), or we can deduce that you are completely incapable of an exact number because you haven’t actually watched all reviews; and we also know that the three “negative” reviews aren’t actually negative at all, so this leads us to you’re merely spouting ******** and trying to turn the table on folks that aren’t overly optimistic about the car, which is the overwhelming majority of potential customers.

Most of us are aware enough, intelligent enough, and knowledgeable enough to realize the car just isn’t going to be a major seller until the gas engine comes out. Then and only then can it position to be a decent seller (I suspect either way it won’t sell as well as last gen Charger)

Every post you make on this you lose credibility guy. It’s pathetic

Argumentative nonsense. First of all, if the same three reviews are making the rounds with the haters then you can assume that the rest of the reviews are good, or at the very least, nuanced - they don’t throw the baby out with the bath water just because they’re butt hurt that Dodge cancelled the Hemi. To substantiate my claim I shared a video that summarizes the reviews in aggregate. As for this EV Jabroni, even he says that if the car was 40k he’d love it.

 

[CloversPlusCats]

In the last couple of days activity around the car has gotten a bit higher. Couple of short vids of it being driven likely by STLA employees and at a shop popped up..

And some more units that the customer... might get to actually drive away in are arriving at more dealers.

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[scatpack_69]

Argumentative nonsense. First of all, if the same three reviews are making the rounds with the haters then you can assume that the rest of the reviews are good, or at the very least, nuanced - they don’t throw the baby out with the bath water just because they’re butt hurt that Dodge cancelled the Hemi. To substantiate my claim I shared a video that summarizes the reviews in aggregate. As for this EV Jabroni, even he says that if the car was 40k he’d love it.

Every post you make is argumentative nonsense

The car is heavy. It doesn’t handle well. It’s got no V8, let alone no gas at all (right now). It’s a car nobody asked for. These are irrefutable facts. And when they make it out to autocrosses all over the country and can’t hang with the Teslas (that weight 1000 lbs less or more!) I can’t wait to hear what total bullsh*t you manage to come up with. You’ve been wrong on every point regarding this car. It’s going to fail, it won’t sell well. The ONLY positive is it’s coming with a gas version

And it’s not a wide body…..wait until the wide body version comes out (because that gets your parties super twisty for some reason)

 

[Mopar392]

The car is heavy because of the batteries like any other hybrid or EV.

 

[James.A]

Every post you make is argumentative nonsense

The car is heavy. It doesn’t handle well. It’s got no V8, let alone no gas at all (right now). It’s a car nobody asked for. These are irrefutable facts. And when they make it out to autocrosses all over the country and can’t hang with the Teslas (that weight 1000 lbs less or more!) I can’t wait to hear what total bullsh*t you manage to come up with. You’ve been wrong on every point regarding this car. It’s going to fail, it won’t sell well. The ONLY positive is it’s coming with a gas version

And it’s not a wide body…..wait until the wide body version comes out (because that gets your parties super twisty for some reason)

Nearly all reviewers noted how well it handled so, no, what you're saying are not irrefutable facts. As for autocross, they tracked the thing and it did well. But maybe, just maybe, this model isn't for those who want to autocross their car. Ever think about that? Obviously not.

 

[WXman]

So you’re saying that if the review is bad then it’s genuine and if it’s good or decent/balanced it’s not genuine? That sounds awfully biased and not genuine. I saw mostly positive reviews and three that were bad and those three are the only ones making rounds by the haters… just three.

That's exactly what I'm saying. It's extremely easy to tell the reviewers who are being honest versus the ones who are kissing @** so they'll get invited to more press events.

Side note: Almost all the reviewers have said the exact same thing I've said; this new car looks amazing inside and out. The design team knocked it out of the park. But.... the powertrain kills it all.

 

[James.A]

That's exactly what I'm saying. It's extremely easy to tell the reviewers who are being honest versus the ones who are kissing @** so they'll get invited to more press events.

Side note: Almost all the reviewers have said the exact same thing I've said; this new car looks amazing inside and out. The design team knocked it out of the park. But.... the powertrain kills it all.

Then your position is biased and thus irrelevant. Explains your factually incorrect statement about powertrain - clearly your self admitted bias causing you to lie.

 

[Mopar426]

Then your position is biased and thus irrelevant. Explains your factually incorrect statement about powertrain - clearly your self admitted bias causing you to lie.

His assessment was correct, they wined and dined youtubers, some that had never even been to Arizona before and then gave them the red carpet treatment once they arrived. This is all to deter them from saying mean things about the car aka "kill them with kindness". Some of them saw through that, the majority wanted to get invited back for another pamper fest by staying neutral.

The EV wont make it, it will probably be cancelled in 2 years if it even makes it that far. Lets revisit this when the same crew gets invited back to review the 420 and 550hp gassers - then you'll get a real feel for what they think of it. If I see another video of them revving the fake exhaust while everyone in attendance cringes I may not survive to see the I6 cars....

 

[TripleT]

His assessment was correct, they wined and dined youtubers, some that had never even been to Arizona before and then gave them the red carpet treatment once they arrived. This is all to deter them from saying mean things about the car aka "kill them with kindness". Some of them saw through that, the majority wanted to get invited back for another pamper fest by staying neutral.

The EV wont make it, it will probably be cancelled in 2 years if it even makes it that far. Lets revisit this when the same crew gets invited back to review the 420 and 550hp gassers - then you'll get a real feel for what they think of it. If I see another video of them revving the fake exhaust while everyone in attendance cringes I may not survive to see the I6 cars....

you're ignoring that they must make the EV to meet regulatory fleet requirements to do business in 9 of the most populated states. But a lot of people choose to do this, think that their own biases mean a dang thing to Regulators.

Next you will say they should stop selling to half the population like just happened to the RV industry.

or that Trump has been elected, and he will change it, when he can't that dang federalism.

or that suddenly these states will come to Jesus.. they won't


Solid State batteries are the solution, they can't get that tech ready fast enough. Lighter better power density.

 

[patfromigh]

you're ignoring that they must make the EV to meet regulatory fleet requirements to do business in 9 of the most populated states. But a lot of people choose to do this, think that their own biases mean a dang thing to Regulators.

Next you will say they should stop selling to half the population like just happened to the RV industry.

or that Trump has been elected, and he will change it, when he can't that dang federalism.

or that suddenly these states will come to Jesus.. they won't


Solid State batteries are the solution, they can't get that tech ready fast enough. Lighter better power density.

CAFE and fleet averages are based on what a company sells, not on what they offer to the market. The Charger EV is total BS, end of story. Nobody asked for it and very precious few want one. Where I live, this week the high temps are in the teens and the lows are single digit and sometimes slip below zero degrees F. Funny thing is I'm still seeing battery electric vehicles driving around. There are a few Teslas, but most are Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt models. The government doesn't care how much money a particular model makes, it's all about flooding the market. Stellantis is stupid because if they're going to be forced into giving away cars, they should build some cheaper ones to give away, not three ton lumps. The marketing geniuses try sell the Fiat 500e as the cool car and then pass off the Charger Daytona EV as a volume product.

According to Autoline, Ford sold more Mock-E Mustangs than standard gas Mustngs last year. (I thought everybody wanted a V8?) Part of the recent sales success of the Mustang Mock-E is that the Stellantis business unit, Free2Move, bought a number of them for the subscription / lease / rental fleet because of the Charger Daytona and Jeep Wagoneer S debacle. Carlos Tavares stopped buying credits from Tesla, but instead Stellantis bought Ford, GM, and Korean EVs. BTW, that doesn't count towards the Stellantis fleet average, the credits goes to the competitors they bought vehicles from.

If I ran the circus, the Fiat 500e, and Grande Panda would be offered by subscription or lease through the Free2Move network. Hopefully there will be some larger more successful battery electrics available for CDJR brands, but what they are doing right now isn't working.

 

[TripleT]

OH they will sell a lot of Charger EVs especially to municipalities. One thinks of Charger only as the SRT and Scat packs when reality that is not where the volume is, and when trying to meet a regulatory fleet requirement like you tried to clear up something that was already clear you need to sell in the volume area.

Peoples own bias keep getting in the way of understanding the business and regulatory reality.

If you all don't think the Mach E is not absolutely brutalized in the Ford Forums.... bahahahaha

I am tired of the discussion OEMs have to have Zero Emission cars to sell today, STLA is 2 to 3 years behind. Complaining that the are meeting regulatory requirements to stay in business is POINTLESS. I don't even like EVs they are soulless appliances. But having a Halo EV to help drive sales of lower tier models and run drag strip in Plaid times is a health exercise. But I understand they HAVE to build these, and again have to sell them. Pepe LeCheapskate just lean to hard into it trying to avoid multiple powertrains, he not the only one that made this error, see VW.

Meanwhile the I6 in the RAM embarrasses the Eagle and makes it the surprising MTOY and whispers here, can't wait to see how it performs in this vehicle. But I still want to have the ZF hybrid transmission. Parasitic torque converters should be part of the past.

 

[James.A]

His assessment was correct, they wined and dined youtubers, some that had never even been to Arizona before and then gave them the red carpet treatment once they arrived. This is all to deter them from saying mean things about the car aka "kill them with kindness". Some of them saw through that, the majority wanted to get invited back for another pamper fest by staying neutral.

The EV wont make it, it will probably be cancelled in 2 years if it even makes it that far. Lets revisit this when the same crew gets invited back to review the 420 and 550hp gassers - then you'll get a real feel for what they think of it. If I see another video of them revving the fake exhaust while everyone in attendance cringes I may not survive to see the I6 cars....

His assessment is biased, and baseless slander. He (and you and TK and OC and Butthead the outsider) are mad that the EV got decent reviews, short comings and all, and you hate that fact so you slander the reviewer because you have nothing else. Straight Pipes, Matt Maran, Redline Reviews, Raiti, Racer X and Demonology to name a few have more credibility than any of you haters.

I’ve been critical of Triple T at times but his replies above are 100% correct.

 

[James.A]

For the" EV's are dead" crowd. EV Mustang outsells ICE version.

https://www.autoblog.com/news/fords-og-mustang-falls-behind-its-mach-e-descendent