Charger Daytona delayed? Prototypes supposedly failing.

[patfromigh]

For the" EV's are dead" crowd. EV Mustang outsells ICE version.

https://www.autoblog.com/news/fords-og-mustang-falls-behind-its-mach-e-descendent

I already pointed that out in Post #197. I also explain how Stellantis helps with that.

 

[James.A]

I already pointed that out in Post #197. I also explain how Stellantis helps with that.

Awesome. Helping to keep post #197 alive.

 

[Mopar426]

You guys are really gonna compare an electric 4 door SUV with a mustang badge thats literally being given away against a low slung coupe with little to no incentives? Sales are also clocked when the car rolls off the assembly line when the dealer gets billed for it - not when someone actually buys it retail. Go look up inventory levels for the real number

 

[scatpack_69]

The car is heavy because of the batteries like any other hybrid or EV.

I’m aware. That doesn’t mean it handles great. Come on…

 

[scatpack_69]

Then your position is biased and thus irrelevant. Explains your factually incorrect statement about powertrain - clearly your self admitted bias causing you to lie.

Nearly all reviewers noted how well it handled so, no, what you're saying are not irrefutable facts. As for autocross, they tracked the thing and it did well. But maybe, just maybe, this model isn't for those who want to autocross their car. Ever think about that? Obviously not.

Every time you post, you seem dumber and dumber

Nobody makes an autocross care genius, nobody. The point (that you’re too dumb to understand) is that a car this heavy WON’T handle well!

Looks, it’s clear you have a hardon for EV’s, and that’s fine, go stroke yourself in the corner. But when you rub yourself raw and the fantasy is over, don’t cry to us. We told you it’s a no-go

 

[scatpack_69]

For the" EV's are dead" crowd. EV Mustang outsells ICE version.

https://www.autoblog.com/news/fords-og-mustang-falls-behind-its-mach-e-descendent

And yet again, another kernel of stupidity from you Jimmy

 

[James.A]

Every time you post, you seem dumber and dumber

Nobody makes an autocross care genius, nobody. The point (that you’re too dumb to understand) is that a car this heavy WON’T handle well!

Looks, it’s clear you have a hardon for EV’s, and that’s fine, go stroke yourself in the corner. But when you rub yourself raw and the fantasy is over, don’t cry to us. We told you it’s a no-go

Except that nearly every review noted how well it handled and EV's are the future whether we like it or not. Get over it

 

[patfromigh]

You guys are really gonna compare an electric 4 door SUV with a mustang badge thats literally being given away against a low slung coupe with little to no incentives? Sales are also clocked when the car rolls off the assembly line when the dealer gets billed for it - not when someone actually buys it retail. Go look up inventory levels for the real number

Both the ICE and electric Mustang models serve the same demographics, fleets and fanboys. For the EV version it's a different fan base for sure, but EVs also appeal to freeloaders offering those government incentives.

The fall of the Mustang is probably a different thread in itself.

 

[Mopar426]

Anything with 305's up front and 325's out back will seem to handle well on a twisty road. The car is 6000lbs, the brakes and tires would be fried by lap 5 at a track day

 

[mtnmed71]

The auto industry is a mess right now. It's a combination of demand not being met regarding what people want and need, unreasonable regulations that are out of touch with people's needs, and the cost of vehicles being too high for most people to afford regardless if it is EV or ICE. It's really a big mess. Technology and demand should drive the industry not regulators. So yes there is a multitude of challenges for manufacturers and consumers. I would personally use EV if it meets my needs in a platform that I can use, and a price that I can afford, so I am not anti-EV; I just don't want it in some things. A weekend vehicle to go out and have fun; not what I want. A truncated transition period that just pissed people off was a dumb way to go about it. Would I buy this big turd of a Charger or a Tesla Y Plaid....that's not even a question especially with similar costs. Am I going to run out and get a Charger with a Hurricane engine....nope! Would I look at one with a Hemi....nope! I would rather just get a used Challenger; there is not one thing about the new Charger that I like. Stallantis has bigger issues than the Charger being desirable or not. Their reputation is in the toilet; I wouldn't spend my money on their vehicles unless it was for a vehicle like the Challenger. I'm at the end of the line with my Rams and Jeep Wranglers....won't be buying them anymore. That company did a really good job of pissing everybody off, and treating what was still marketable as cash cows raising the prices to the point of people saying no more. Their build quality is shoddy; too much money to spend on junk. I really don't see how they will survive, and it will take a lot for them to regain market share. As far as the Charger; if I am going EV, I want a completely different kind of vehicle. It's a big ugly heavy turd of a car that holds zero nostalgic value; it really doesn't matter if it performs or not. Simple point; it's just not desirable. if the company would have kept the Challenger going during the transition, there probably wouldn't have been such a negative reaction to their new Charger platform. Their idiotic marketing campaign for the Hornet did a really good job of pissing people off to the point a lot of people just gave them the finger and walked away, which is pretty much what I've done.

 

[Mopar426]

Both the ICE and electric Mustang models serve the same demographics, fleets and fanboys. For the EV version it's a different fan base for sure, but EVs also appeal to freeloaders offering those government incentives.

The fall of the Mustang is probably a different thread in itself.

It does not serve the same demo and never did. The EV is a SUV with $250 per month lease deals. 5.0L's are being treated like they are AMG products $950 per month

People shopping at Ford for a people mover are being given Mach E's for less than the Ford Edge they are trading in - its so cheap they are gambling and trying the EV thing, which they will reject soon as many early adopters already have. We are in the EV end game for traditional auto makers

 

[scatpack_69]

Except that nearly every review noted how well it handled and EV's are the future whether we like it or not. Get over it

No. Dude. Stop it. You’re not truly this stupid. The thing weighs nearly what a full size diesel truck weighs (my ‘07 Cummins single rear one ton weighs 7300 with an atv, two people and bigger wheels/tires).

THE THING DOESN'T EFFING HANDLE WELL!!!! My god…..

And EV’s are dead. They certainly aren’t the future. Deal with it.

 

[scatpack_69]

Both the ICE and electric Mustang models serve the same demographics, fleets and fanboys. For the EV version it's a different fan base for sure, but EVs also appeal to freeloaders offering those government incentives.

The fall of the Mustang is probably a different thread in itself.

No they don’t. No one buying a Mach E is cross shopping a Mustang, and no one buying a Mustang cross shops a Mach E. That’s fantasyland stuff right there

 

[Jared B]

While I appreciate the passion and opinionated discussion around the car, I will interject with a bit of common sense and wisdom that people may overlook while having a passionate discussion.

Firstly, is the car a widebody? No, no, it's not. The car has wide flared fenders, a wide track, and a coke bottle shape to fit wide tires underneath it. But by definition, it's not a widebody, to be a widebody version of a car, it needs a narrower body counterpart. The Mustang S550 and S650 have flared fenders and quarters I've never seen anyone call them a widebody. If you want to call it a widebody and then later, a more flared-fendered, higher-performance version comes along, what will that get called? The wide widebody? Wider widebody? Widestbody? The Germans have been doing it for years; look at an M3 vs a regular 3 series, RS6 VS A6 (shown in the picture below), using complete bespoke quarter panels and fenders.



Secondly, these claims that Youtubers/Influencers were "Bribed" with food and a trip to say good things about the car. Dodge obviously wanted a ton of people to drive the car and it seems like it's blown up in their face a bit this way. These people claiming that influencers were "Bribed" really have no idea how the industry works as at every press launch event, the automaker flies you in, puts you up in a hotel, and feeds you, this is industry-wide and has been going on forever. People making these claims had 0 business "reviewing" a car in the first place.

That brings me to my third point. The internet has given everyone a platform to stand on, and I appreciate that, obviously it has worked out well for us here at this site. On the flip side what passes for a "car review" on YouTube these days is downright hilarious. Knowing nothing about vehicle dynamics but talking about what screen the size is and how many bottles you can fit in a door panel pocket while on the mechanical side only basically knowing that the car got you where you needed to go while driving it, doesn't make you a car reviewer. I know people watch as much content on something they're interested in as possible but the real question to take away when you do that, is, does this person have the credentials to give me a valid opinion.

Lastly, some of the criticisms about the reviews and conflicting information. I have driven one, not long enough that it would make it fair for me to make a formal opinion, but with that said I'll say I side with Throttle House on some of the calibration complaints of the car. Let's also not forget that Thomas Holland has a race car that he races in amateur racing. I fully believe he is qualified to discuss things such as vehicle calibration, while some of the other reviewers wouldn't be qualified to talk on the subject at all.

I was texted by a friend who works at Stellantis a year ago who warned me that calibration was going to be an issue. Summarized, the text said "They've hired all these computer guys that haven't worked in automotive to set up the calibrations on our EVs. They don't know the first thing about cars or driving dynamics, nor do they care, and from what I've seen it's not going to be good."

Here's the good news, that can be fixed by over the air updates and I believe that after initial reviews Dodge is going to work on that and push the updates out. I have been told by DODGE EMPLOYEES that were part of the event that they spent a good amount of time putting out fires. They have work to do, and they know it.

As far as handling, I've heard people complain about steering feel internally. By nature the car will feel as though it handles well, with the wide tires and weight down low in the chassis due to the battery, but what it won't be is nimble, probably won't perform great on a skidpad, and if the steering calibration is off then yeah I could see the throttle house angle about handling there too. In my mind they didn't crap on the car, but they did point out some flaws and some seem to be taking it personally because other people with 0 idea of driving dynamics didn't complain about it. Also I'd encourage many people to look up a first drive (initial impressions) review on almost any vehicle and then watch the same publications review on it after they have one to actually review for a week and you will always find it more critical. Remember on these press drives you only get to spend an hour or two at most with the vehicle so a lot gets missed on initial drives...

Anyways, that's my level-headed 2 cents to give you guys more to talk about. I look forward to actually getting to spend time with the car and form my own opinion on it.

 

[patfromigh]

No they don’t. No one buying a Mach E is cross shopping a Mustang, and no one buying a Mustang cross shops a Mach E. That’s fantasyland stuff right there

Once again you fail at reading comprehension. I said there are different fan bases for the Mock-e and ICE versions. Fleets purchase both the EV and ICE versions of the Mustang. No one buys the ICE version, what sales it garnered in 2024 is because it is a rental queen. The rental fleets order mostly 4 cylinder convertibles.

The better sales performance of the potato shaped Mock-e version is because it attracts freeloaders as well as fleets and fanboys. The government is bribing people to buy an EV. In markets where the financial incentives were discontinued, EV sales evaporated. On the other hand fleets are often forced to purchase EVs. Auto rental companies are sometimes allocated space at airports with the understanding of a certain number of vehicles will be "Zero Emissions." Municipal fleets in Blue states and cities generally don't have a choice either.

 

[scatpack_69]

Once again you fail at reading comprehension. I said there are different fan bases for the Mock-e and ICE versions. Fleets purchase both the EV and ICE versions of the Mustang. No one buys the ICE version, what sales it garnered in 2024 is because it is a rental queen. The rental fleets order mostly 4 cylinder convertibles.

The better sales performance of the potato shaped Mock-e version is because it attracts freeloaders as well as fleets and fanboys. The government is bribing people to buy an EV. In markets where the financial incentives were discontinued, EV sales evaporated. On the other hand fleets are often forced to purchase EVs. Auto rental companies are sometimes allocated space at airports with the understanding of a certain number of vehicles will be "Zero Emissions." Municipal fleets in Blue states and cities generally don't have a choice either.

Your first sentence you said they serve the same demographics, which apparently are either fleets or “fanboys”. What a moronic comment. You’re wrong. Don’t quote me and tell me I can’t comprehend when your comment is totally wrong

 

[WXman]

We all knew these EV "Chargers" wouldn't sell. But apparently it's worse than expected. There are credible sources online saying that Dodge has taken 82 orders for this car. Eighty two. They were selling almost 80,000 Chargers a year, and they just released an all-new model and they got 82 orders?!

This is beyond bad. This is shaping up to be the worst flop of a car in the U.S. of my entire lifetime....and I lived through the Yugo years.

 

[patfromigh]

This is beyond bad. This is shaping up to be the worst flop of a car in the U.S. of my entire lifetime....and I lived through the Yugo years.

Chrysler's Yugo episode was named the Plymouth Cricket when marketed here in the USA. Canada used the Cricket name on a few different cars. Remember the Pontiac Aztec ? It actual went through consumer clinics, but there are rumors when the participants gave opinions that contradicted the Pontiac reps, those who dissented were ridiculed. Bob Lutz said the death of the Pontiac brand was actually a mercy killing.

Low sales is a good thing. It not like having the best sales year in the history of the brand (1957 Plymouth) only to have numerous quality gaffs convince an entire generation of buyers to never buy another Chrysler product. When a new generation of buyers showed up in the 1970s, history would repeat itself with the Aspen/Volare twins and the Lean Burn engines. Dodge and Plymouth minivans were crushing the sales chart when management decided the vans need to have a four speed automatic ASAP. The result of that decision was the infamously half-baked A-604 Ultradrive transmission.

Unlike the Ford Edsel, which became the poster child for automotive flops, Stellantis doesn't have a Ford Falcon waiting in the wings. The year the Edsel was laid to rest the Ford Falcon set an all time sales record for the first year of a new car. That record was short lived when a car sharing the same platform overtook the Falcon's sales performance. That car was the Mustang.

 

[Mopar426]

I believe the 82 number. It was probably in the 40 range when they decided to hurry up the gas models