Fiat Chrysler to invest €166 million in Poland, says Deputy PM

[Deckard Cain]

As I said it depends on how it's executed. Small Wide short wheelbase Tonale based would be a perfect choice.

So for me:
Small Wide > e-Mini Wide > CMP

For me it does not depend on execution. Keep Alfa out of the B-segment and bring it to the E-segment. If you want more volume release a C-segment hatchback and fastback to compete with the CLA, 2-series and A3 Limousine. That would be a lot more respectful of the Alfa legacy and a Quadrifoglio version of a small C-segment fastback would instantly become a legendary car.

For B-segment and smaller they are making the 500 into its own upscale brand anyway.

 

[pumadog]

A agree, there's no excuse to lack a classic C segment offering. I'm fine with B segment though, if it's well done.

 

[Mopar392]

For me it does not depend on execution. Keep Alfa out of the B-segment and bring it to the E-segment. If you want more volume release a C-segment hatchback and fastback to compete with the CLA, 2-series and A3 Limousine. That would be a lot more respectful of the Alfa legacy and a Quadrifoglio version of a small C-segment fastback would instantly become a legendary car.

For B-segment and smaller they are making the 500 into its own upscale brand anyway.

I agree with the C-segment, but in E-segment it is going to be redundant with Maserati, and the segment is already filled with really heavy hitters.
With a proper execution, I still see Alfa can have some opportunity in B-segment even if 500 can fill it. VW/Audi does it with Q2/T-Roc, even if they are on the larger side of B-segment.

 

[Deckard Cain]

A agree, there's no excuse to lack a classic C segment offering. I'm fine with B segment though, if it's well done.

I wouldn't mind B-segment if Alfa was present in other segments. However, prioritizing that over these other launches to me is just poor planning.

 

[Deckard Cain]

I agree with the C-segment, but in E-segment it is going to be redundant with Maserati, and the segment is already filled with really heavy hitters.
With a proper execution, I still see Alfa can have some opportunity in B-segment even if 500 can fill it. VW/Audi does it with Q2/T-Roc, even if they are on the larger side of B-segment.

It's perfectly possible to adequately differentiate Alfa from Maserati. VW does not have any problem to differentiate the Audis and Porsches that overlap in the same segments.
Why should that be a problem again for Alfa and Maserati?

 

[Mopar392]

It's perfectly possible to adequately differentiate Alfa from Maserati. VW does not have any problem to differentiate the Audis and Porsches that overlap in the same segments.
Why should that be a problem again for Alfa and Maserati?

Because Maserati is not Audi in term of Luxury and Alfa is not Porsche in term of performance.

 

[Deckard Cain]

You should flip those two around.

 

[Bili]

Because Maserati is not Audi in term of Luxury and Alfa is not Porsche in term of performance.

Of course it's not, Maser is step above Audi.

 

[pumadog]

The anxiety of overlap is what made FCA Italy sell less and less, what makes margins shrink, what makes models die on powerpoint. If you can't fund development of an Alfa E-SUV on its own, you can build it together with a Jeep or Maserati. If Maserati stays true to their recovered luxury focus it's quite easy to differentiate it from it's premium Alfa sister models. And it's not hard to differentiate it from the bread-and-butter brands. Also 500 and Alfa would always have pretty different character. VW manages to do it, PSA does.

I guess Alfas strange sequence of model launches is simply based on opportunities. Now they got the easy opportunity to fund a B-SUV. 1. through FCA sisters, 2. through CMP platform. No money and momentum for strategic planning. For a new Giulietta they didn't have matching FCA sisters in planning.

 

[TripleT]

Well that ship is sailing as Maserati down sizes into the Stelvio and Giulia range. Powertrain and appointment will have to set them apart.

 

[pennellotref]

The anxiety of overlap is what made FCA Italy sell less and less, what makes margins shrink, what makes models die on powerpoint. If you can't fund development of an Alfa E-SUV on its own, you can build it together with a Jeep or Maserati. If Maserati stays true to their recovered luxury focus it's quite easy to differentiate it from it's premium Alfa sister models. And it's not hard to differentiate it from the bread-and-butter brands. Also 500 and Alfa would always have pretty different character. VW manages to do it, PSA does.

I guess Alfas strange sequence of model launches is simply based on opportunities. Now they got the easy opportunity to fund a B-SUV. 1. through FCA sisters, 2. through CMP platform. No money and momentum for strategic planning. For a new Giulietta they didn't have matching FCA sisters in planning.

You can't deal with the overlapping problem without considering the dealers' network side of the business and that issue regards both FCA EU and US. It's very difficult for example having and selling on the same floor a Cherokee and a Chrysler CUV, given the substantially different ROS those brands have and the similar market positioning. Both the company (FCA) and the dealer will always prefer to sell the former instead of the latter. Not that this issue is lost on FCA and in fact we're seeing many standalone Jeep dealers popping up in the US. It's not a coincidence that VW and GM for instance pretty much are never worried about overlapping: lucky for them, they have a dealer structure which is completely different from FCA. The FCA solution is what a company does when is in badly need of cost cutting and we know why, given the "recent" history of both Chrysler and Fiat.

 

[Bili]

Well that ship is sailing as Maserati down sizes into the Stelvio and Giulia range. Powertrain and appointment will have to set them apart.

Not really. Maserati may come down with class size but they're staying where they're with price level.

 

[Mopar392]

I think Maserati models are cards played wrong.
Alfa was able to catch awareness when they launched the QV models with their innovations before the the bread and butter models.
Maserati should have launched their most extreme versions of each model prior to the other versions.
I think if the Trofeo models were introduced first and marketed against their German rivals, it could have been more successful than now.

 

[TripleT]

Not really. Maserati may come down with class size but they're staying where they're with price level.

Not exactly what? The comment was about Alfa expanding into E, while it already happening with cars from Maserati very similar in size then Alfa offerings. So really they are going to have cross over from size. But like it said VW and Audi also do.... hell throw in the Porsches.

 

[Deckard Cain]

Well that ship is sailing as Maserati down sizes into the Stelvio and Giulia range. Powertrain and appointment will have to set them apart.

It's almost as if there's not an Audi Q5 and Porsche Macan... Oh wait.

 

[Deckard Cain]

The anxiety of overlap is what made FCA Italy sell less and less, what makes margins shrink, what makes models die on powerpoint. If you can't fund development of an Alfa E-SUV on its own, you can build it together with a Jeep or Maserati. If Maserati stays true to their recovered luxury focus it's quite easy to differentiate it from it's premium Alfa sister models. And it's not hard to differentiate it from the bread-and-butter brands. Also 500 and Alfa would always have pretty different character. VW manages to do it, PSA does.

I guess Alfas strange sequence of model launches is simply based on opportunities. Now they got the easy opportunity to fund a B-SUV. 1. through FCA sisters, 2. through CMP platform. No money and momentum for strategic planning. For a new Giulietta they didn't have matching FCA sisters in planning.

Exactly. And yes, your reasoning for the lack of strategic planning makes perfect sense. but while for a new Giulietta there's no matching FCA cars in planning, the new Opel Astra and Peugeot 308 are coming out soon. Make it in the same platform as those two (cue Bili talking about technical inferiority of PSA's platform).

 

[pumadog]

Therefore I used the past term regarding the sisters.

 

[Bili]

Exactly. And yes, your reasoning for the lack of strategic planning makes perfect sense. but while for a new Giulietta there's no matching FCA cars in planning, the new Opel Astra and Peugeot 308 are coming out soon. Make it in the same platform as those two (cue Bili talking about technical inferiority of PSA's platform).

Making a premium car on PSA platform and putting it against Germans is like having suisse knife against machette.

 

[pumadog]

LOL, did you have a look at German premium compacts lately? Mass market tech with better materials, infotainment and aftersales. An Audi A3 was never more than a Golf, Leon or Octavia with snappy switchgear. Alfa's compact was never the most spacious. You prefer no C Alfa anymore? Because that's the alternative.

 

[Bili]

LOL, did you have a look at German premium compacts lately? Mass market tech with better materials, infotainment and aftersales. An Audi A3 was never more than a Golf, Leon or Octavia with snappy switchgear. Alfa's compact was never the most spacious. You prefer no C Alfa anymore? Because that's the alternative.

Audi A3 can have mechanical AWD, aluminium suspension, independent rear suspension and on top of that bespoke 2.5 Inline 5 turbo engine.

What can Pug offer. No AWD, no IRS, top engine option with 1.6 Inline 4 turbo.