Mopar Insiders Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Stellantis exec makes clear more power coming to I-6 Hurricane, but HEMI is gone.

BWS

Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2021
Messages
99
Reaction score
40
Well Nissan isn't going to buy Cummin engines anymore.... How about that as a base engine?

HD trucks are a whole other story. They can keep the Hemi for that.

IDK get people seems to be in love with idea of having 2 sets of heads to maintain and an imbalance engine out of some sort of retro nostalgia thing.
Please enough with the v8 is an imbalanced engine . And don’t give me the engineering lecture about the inherent balance in an in line six. I understand that without the snippy lectures . But the fact of the matter is , while a 90 degree v8 does have some secondary harmonics, it is also an extremely smooth engine configuration capable of ample low end torque . You act as if the v8 has been some kind of curse on American motordome. How many have we built since Henry the first started cranking them out? Couple hundred million or so? Why have they been the staple of the smoothest, quietest cars in the world for generations? Because of the lopey idle and great exhaust sound? Doubtful I’d say. Straight sixes? Love em. Owned two. V8 s, nothing like them , for a bunch of reasons. Millions upon millions of buyers have agreed. I understand Mopar is done with them. The Euro rulers have seen to that. But that doesn’t mean every one ever built was imbalanced and “fragile”???? Fragile????? Apparently you never owned many 318s
 

cygnus

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
534
Reaction score
336
This company is dead without the V8s.

I have been right about everything (including the UAW, how about that pay raise?)
 

AlexB

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2018
Messages
2,054
Reaction score
1,363
This company is dead without the V8s.

I have been right about everything (including the UAW, how about that pay raise?)
"I have been right about everything (including the UAW, how about that pay raise?)"
LOL, Hell No you haven't !🤣🤣🤣
 

cygnus

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
534
Reaction score
336
"I have been right about everything (including the UAW, how about that pay raise?)"
LOL, Hell No you haven't !🤣🤣🤣

Remember when you said Stellantis would win and the UAW would lose? Boy you took the L on that one
 

AlexB

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2018
Messages
2,054
Reaction score
1,363
Remember when you said Stellantis would win and the UAW would lose? Boy you took the L on that one
Sorry you suck at comprehension:John Elkann went through a 8 month fight UAW: Case(CNH), Stellantis merger strengths.
UAW took the CNH style deal of increase:

*No new generation of Pensions
*No 32-40 hour work week
*Start of RAM 1500 in Mexico ( RAM Extended Range,RAM REV going to Sterling Heights will require a shift of ICE RAM 1500 production)
*No new product for Warren other than Wagonner EV & Extended Range Hybrid
*No new product for the original Toledo plant
Keeps usage of Temps:
Perhaps the most egregious lie to come out of Fain’s mouth was that the contract meant that “the era of perma-temps is over.”

In fact, the UAW agreed to even worse provisions for the conversion of temporary workers to full-time status at Stellantis than they did at Ford, leaving the door open precisely to the creation of a new tier of highly exploited perma-temps.

The Stellantis contract book indicates the company nominally agreed to convert future temps to full-time status after nine months, as in the Ford deal. However, the UAW’s deal with Stellantis includes the highly significant exception that the company and the union “can agree to extend this period”—making the nine-month restriction on employment as a temp practically meaningless.

In another concession, the Stellantis-UAW deal states that the nine months of “continuous service” before conversion will only begin to be counted once the contract is ratified. This opens the door for the virtually ceaseless churning of these workers, who will be laid off and rehired again without ever reaching their roll-over date.

In another major concession, the UAW agreed to allow Stellantis to convert only a limited number of temps to full-time status if the contract is ratified. In the “highlights” of the deal the UAW posted Thursday night, union officials claim that within the first year, 3,200 temporary workers will be converted to full-time
Updated Absentee rules

UAW agrees to more punitive absentee policy in Stellantis contract​

Under the terms of the UAW tentative agreement with Stellantis, the company will have a freer hand to discipline and terminate workers who are late to work or take a day off. This includes combining the categories of “tardiness” and “absences” into one category, “occurrence.” This will result in workers accumulating disciplinary points far faster than under the 2019 agreement.
Finally Stellantis stock is up since announce of agreement with the smallest negative strike impact thanks to inventory.
 

TripleT

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
2,587
Reaction score
2,808
ALL moPAR attitude has been Doom since 2009 as they were complete oblivious to the Near-death experience under domestic ownership. The Gen3 Hemi (marketing term) lives on Mopar as crate engines for project cars. The population that can afford do project car on a brand new $60K car is very narrow and there 18 years of Lseries cars to work with. Most people don't pop a engine open, nothing would change with a Plastic cover that said Hemi V8 if the Car is quicker. Several outlets are reporting a Gen4 with DI and Turbos, it really already exists at some corporate cousins. I imagine they may drop it in something low volumes to silence "get off my Lawn Crew".... real performance enthusiasts know that great engines come in many configurations. Having a loud exhaust and during a burnout is not a performance, its a show.

Y'all never win with All the Poar get off my lawn crew, everything from the past was better, anything new is the end, and Lee saved the company. There is no amount of logic that can fix that.

Instead of being excited about this new toy they have to stretch to say why it's bad while complain about not having any new toys. The reality is the Gen3 hit it maximum potential for performance and efficiency. This monster has been in the works for awhile even in a time when the regulatory realities where ICE is dead. Now that is being rolled back we should be happy we have it.
 

cygnus

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
534
Reaction score
336
Sorry you suck at comprehension:John Elkann went through a 8 month fight UAW: Case(CNH), Stellantis merger strengths.
UAW took the CNH style deal of increase:

*No new generation of Pensions
*No 32-40 hour work week
*Start of RAM 1500 in Mexico ( RAM Extended Range,RAM REV going to Sterling Heights will require a shift of ICE RAM 1500 production)
*No new product for Warren other than Wagonner EV & Extended Range Hybrid
*No new product for the original Toledo plant
Keeps usage of Temps:

Updated Absentee rules

Finally Stellantis stock is up since announce of agreement with the smallest negative strike impact thanks to inventory.
"*No new generation of Pensions"

I agree the the reinstatement of pensions was never realistic.

"Start of RAM 1500 in Mexico"

ICE 1500 will still be built at SHAP. No pickup buyer will want a Ram 1500 built in Mexico, they'll look at the sticker. Not even Ford or GM is that stupid.

"Keeps usage of Temps"

STLA wanted more temps, didn't happen. Temp pay is now $21/hour, up from $16/hr. Oops!

"No new product for the original Toledo plant"

ICE JL will last until JM in calendar 2028/2029, which will be part of the next contract.

"27% in compounded base wage increases, cost-of-living adjustments, a shorter timeline to the top wage, rollover commitments for temporary/supplemental workers and a pathway for employees at future battery plants to become unionized under the union's master agreement with the companies."

Unfortunately this company is run by total morons with respect to product/pricing, so we'll see how this plays the next four years.

Lol, our UAW workers make more than the Europoors could ever dream of.
 

AlexB

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2018
Messages
2,054
Reaction score
1,363
"*No new generation of Pensions"

I agree the the reinstatement of pensions was never realistic.

"Start of RAM 1500 in Mexico"

ICE 1500 will still be built at SHAP. No pickup buyer will want a Ram 1500 built in Mexico, they'll look at the sticker. Not even Ford or GM is that stupid.

"Keeps usage of Temps"

STLA wanted more temps, didn't happen. Temp pay is now $21/hour, up from $16/hr. Oops!

"No new product for the original Toledo plant"

ICE JL will last until JM in calendar 2028/2029, which will be part of the next contract.

"27% in compounded base wage increases, cost-of-living adjustments, a shorter timeline to the top wage, rollover commitments for temporary/supplemental workers and a pathway for employees at future battery plants to become unionized under the union's master agreement with the companies."

Unfortunately this company is run by total morons with respect to product/pricing, so we'll see how this plays the next four years.

Lol, our UAW workers make more than the Europoors could ever dream of.
The start of RAM 1500 DT Saltillo means Sterling Heights is easier to cut in a downturn. Again Shawn is a clown
GM already makes Trucks in Mexico, and RAM HD is already made in Mexico.


"ICE JL will last until JM incalendar 2028/2029, which will be part of the next contract."


Again "Comprehension"...... the original Toledo plant doesn't make JL.
 

TripleT

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
2,587
Reaction score
2,808
Can you imagine coming here to flame and Not knowing this?1699185590063.png
 

Archknight

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
87
Reaction score
76
Since the US will be the primary market for a V8 of any kind, it'll likely be downsized and turbocharged with electrification of some sort. My best guess would be something similar to BMWs 4.4L (S68) V8 engine. Considering this will be meant for high performance cars and possibly trucks I'd assume 4.5L as the the most powerful I6 Hurricane can unleash 540hp.

At 4.5L in an all new design, the base can easily eclipse 620hp at minimum (SO) and possibly in the 800+hp (HO) version. Speculation based on the I6 Hurricane outputs it clear that whatever they put out, it'll be smaller than any current V8 but more powerful than anything they have ever produced. They want the Banshee to be the Halo model for Dodge, so they'll likely keep power limited on ICE model to avoid not being able to move the all electric model.

It's also clear the new I4 Hurricane will be top tier as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see it's SO version hitting 300hp and 380+hp in HO form. Electrification will be huge part of any new engined they release, so we can also expect 48V mild hybrids on most with plug-ins likely a secondary choice.
 
Last edited:

TripleT

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
2,587
Reaction score
2,808
it's a false assumption a V8 or the straight 4 version would make more or equivalent HP per liter in a production durable engine. The video on TFL is enlightening. On V8 you have the additional complexing of another drive system and head that for geometry reasons, complexity, and balance reason mean it will be less stout. In addition the wave form driving the turbo is "nearly" prefect when powered by 3 cylinders of the 6. So, the straight six inherently able to handle more hp/liter. The four has balance and single turbo restrictions.

About the only reason to do a V8 is evidence here..... MARKETING.... people are absolutely convinced that it is the ONLY Muscle car configuration.... (thanks Henry Ford you damn NAz....)

Offys were making more hp and were tons lighter when V8s were still a slow lug.....

Anyway it likely a good idea to pull Maserati engine over here for a low volume update and throw in in a few SRTs just to make people happy even if the new 6 is fun little beast that will be the better performance value, Hell is already is.
 

Mopar392

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
879
Reaction score
568
It’s not an assumption.
Mercedes and Audi are doing it, and that’s why VAG group and BMW are committed to keep the V8 engines in the markets where they make sense.

The new Mercedes C63 with 4 cylinders are a perfect examples that buyers looks for the horsepower and also the number of cylinders and sound.
Whoever buys these high performance cars are usually enthusiasts and not your typical consumers.
 

TripleT

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
2,587
Reaction score
2,808
It’s not an assumption.
Mercedes and Audi are doing it, and that’s why VAG group and BMW are committed to keep the V8 engines in the markets where they make sense.

The new Mercedes C63 with 4 cylinders are a perfect examples that buyers looks for the horsepower and also the number of cylinders and sound.
Whoever buys these high performance cars are usually enthusiasts and not your typical consumers.
Look how high the output per liter is on the engine already…I outline specific reasons why, completely ignored. Of course it is assumption. It complete marketing and incumbent solutions bias. It has become just weird to me at this point. Everyone clearly recognizes the advantages on a straight 6 direct injection turbo engine in HD truck line over the V8 competitors, then completely ignores them in Car and Light duty applications just because the fuel is different.

Can they produce a more complex, heavier, less durable, less specific power per cc engine purely for marketing reasons?

YES

A plastic cover that says Hemi on it would be cheaper.

And you still will have the exhaust tone issue with a Turbo it is inherently different the high cube NA engine
 

Mopar392

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
879
Reaction score
568
I’m not saying the straight 6 engines don’t have an advantage.
But more cylinders give more advantage in horsepower and torque for the same chamber volume.
 

TripleT

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
2,587
Reaction score
2,808
That’s simply not the case for several reasons. Balance among them. Room to secure the assembly another, intake and exhaust another. It was simply the incumbent solution with a NA cost structure. No we are not talking single pass ultimate HP, we are endurance efficient performance

I hate this discussion because I love a sweet V8 engine but this mythic level status as the singular solution is simply false.

We are getting an awesome new toy and all there is are complaints about what it’s not. Tiresome
 

Archknight

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
87
Reaction score
76
"When we came together as two families, PSA and FCA, we had a lot of engines. We are rapidly streamlining our three-cylinder, four-cylinder and six-cylinder and even our eight-cylinder engines. We are aggressively streamlining our diesel portfolio. We already exited the 3.0-liter diesel. We will have a low-displacement diesel and a big diesel that's coming in the future."

The article never said explicitly they were doing away with the 8 cylinder engines, just streamlining. Having one big engine with different states of tune is far easier to develop than continuing to build different sizes just to increase power. People are always going to want a V8 especially in Dodge and Ram vehicles because the competition has them and that's what the company is known for.

I have no problem with this I6 and I'm looking forward to seeing it in other vehicles, especially in Jeep. Since this already the top sec HO version can move a 6500lb Wagoneer to 60mph in 5.7 seconds, it's going to be a beast in anything lighter.
 

AlexB

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2018
Messages
2,054
Reaction score
1,363
"When we came together as two families, PSA and FCA, we had a lot of engines. We are rapidly streamlining our three-cylinder, four-cylinder and six-cylinder and even our eight-cylinder engines. We are aggressively streamlining our diesel portfolio. We already exited the 3.0-liter diesel. We will have a low-displacement diesel and a big diesel that's coming in the future."

The article never said explicitly they were doing away with the 8 cylinder engines, just streamlining. Having one big engine with different states of tune is far easier to develop than continuing to build different sizes just to increase power. People are always going to want a V8 especially in Dodge and Ram vehicles because the competition has them and that's what the company is known for.

I have no problem with this I6 and I'm looking forward to seeing it in other vehicles, especially in Jeep. Since this already the top sec HO version can move a 6500lb Wagoneer to 60mph in 5.7 seconds, it's going to be a beast in anything lighter.
PSA has no V8 to consolidate....
The guy even stated HEMI difficult to update with a poor return on investment . They already announce no HEMI in RAM 1500 2025.
 

Archknight

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
87
Reaction score
76
PSA has no V8 to consolidate....
The guy even stated HEMI difficult to update with a poor return on investment . They already announce no HEMI in RAM 1500 2025.
I never mentioned a HEMI throughout that entire post. However, I took notice of the wording the man used by streamlining engines. PSA doesn't have a V8, but Maserati does. I wasn't just referring to Ram getting a V8 for the new model, I was speaking in terms of one V8 being designed for all their brands.
 

AlexB

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2018
Messages
2,054
Reaction score
1,363
I never mentioned a HEMI throughout that entire post. However, I took notice of the wording the man used by streamlining engines. PSA doesn't have a V8, but Maserati does. I wasn't just referring to Ram getting a V8 for the new model, I was speaking in terms of one V8 being designed for all their brands.
Maserati is going all 100% EV along with Alfa & Chrysler brands.
Pretty much only V8 would be RAM HD's.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top