Dodge Hornet

[Deckard Cain]

I think is soon to make that conclusion, It not even on Dodge wheels or has a Dodge steering wheel. For sure there will be seating and material differences also. This is early product driver we are not meant to see. I don't know where you are in the world but there won't be much canibalization because there is nearly no dealer cross overs and this is a massive country..... see all the space between Alfa Dealers. Nearly half the states have 1 or less dealer.

I really hope you are right TripleT. This is a severe blow to Alfa.
It's the coup de grace from Manley to Alfa. Not only did he moved the 8C to be sold as the MC20 by Maserati, and the Grecale (which was also supposed to be an Alfa), he left this poisoned gift to Alfa. This is completely different from the rebadges that PSA does. Even in the case where they rushed the Corsa to stop paying to GM they made it look completely different on the interior and very different on the outside.

This leak just shows a lazy rebadge akin to the Dodge Neon/Fiat Tipo and not a proper job. For Dodge this might not be as important, and it will indeed guarantee plenty of sales volume. For Alfa, it's a death blow in the US because no US consumer will buy the Tonale when the nearly similar Hornet will look almost the same, and will probably have more powerful variants.

 

[Mopar392]

As much as I understand the frustration from both Dodge’s and Alfa’s sides of this argument, I have to remind myself and others that this is a test mule or a pre-production or whatever you want to call, and the design, interior and exterior, might not be finalized.

We can’t blame it all on Manley. The current management, Alfa, Dodge or even Stellantis, could change whatever they see not fit for the purpose of the investment.

 

[Deckard Cain]

If it's confirmed that the Hornet is no more than the leaked pictures then they should simply avoid selling the Tonale in the US.

 

[bill burke]

This Hornet thread is generating some interesting and informative discussion that is enjoyable to this Dodge fan. Indeed, the Hornet is potentially a significant vehicle for Dodge and just as significant is the linkage to Alfa Romeo. Many opinions, mine included, are couched in a strong relationship to Dodge and our judgements, expectations and standards are high and demanding. Our posts are also a bit inflated in what Dodge could do with Hornet. I really expected a direct Porsche rival, but reality has been tempered by a pragmatic realization and acceptance of what seems to be coming. The general visual common characteristics of these vehicles should have been expected and yet the victory for Dodge that the existence of the Hornet alone and what Dodge has done must be celebrated and embraced not panned. In truth, it is a corporate decision that should have been made years ago with a Dodge spin-off of Giulia and Stelvio that would have paid huge dividends that justify the platform investment.
The attached map of Alfa Romeo dealerships was a stark evidence for my monthly surprise of AR sales, living in the well served NY metro area where ARs are plentiful and demographics ripe for the brand. Clearly looking at a large chunk of America unserved by AR, the decision on a Dodge Hornet in thousands of dealerships and a deep following is so compellingly correct.
Ok, I’m still a dreamer, still hoping a Dodge derived Stelvio spin-off, Porsche fighter is possible soon. If you saw how well that Stelvio is selling on Long Island, you would be dreaming with me too. As stated in my first blog, the Alfa Romeo-Dodge linkage is just a natural. Should we call our Porsche killer Rampage?

 

[bill burke]

If it's confirmed that the Hornet is no more than the leaked pictures then they should simply avoid selling the Tonale in the US.

The two can co-exist, that is a sound corporate decision that has been made. Tonale will impact Alfa Romeo in North America in about the same perhaps modest numbers with or without Hornet. A number of fundamental obstacles for Alfa Romeo exist beyond product similarities and include a scarcity of dealerships in large parts of our country and the presence of Fiat and not Maserati in its showrooms, the lack of visibility and awareness of the brand and some enduring negative opinions on Italian product reliability coupled with a very poorly funded marketing budget. Oh yea Deckard and the need for more product including larger sedans and SUVs as well as a performance coupe and a halo sports car. Over time, these negatives will be addressed by AR and hopefully Dodge can cherry pick from these, and don’t dismiss AR from Dodge but the Tonale/Hornet linkage will test this thinking immediately and if successful as I predict, lead to some exciting times and product. Hope I’m right.

 

[redriderbob]

Too small. Should and least be bigger than a Cherokee. This is USA. We like bigger things. Should be a midsize SUV. Look how the Journey sold even after it aged. Make the Hornet bigger. I would buy it was bigger. We don't need another Compass or Renegade. They have large and small now and nothing in between. Look how big the equinox is.

There is your size comparison...

Debut Of The Alfa Romeo Tonale Unlocks Details About Upcoming Dodge Hornet C-SUV!

While yesterday's unveiling of the all-new 2023 Alfa Romeo Tonale was important for the Alfa Romeo brand, it proved to be equally as important to the Dodge brand. That is because when the Tonale enters production at the Stellantis Pomigliano d’Arco Assembly Plant on the outskirts of Naples...

moparinsiders.com

 

[patfromigh]

The benchmark for the market segment is this Toyota RAV4 Prime. The Prime is the plugin version of the RAV4 hybrid. Toyota's plugin hybrid setup is similar to the one in the Compass and Tonale with a rear e-axle. The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is even more similar to the Compass/Tonale because these all use the same supplier.

Ford doesn't use an e-axle for any of the Escape Hybrid models. The AWD setup in the Escape hybrid is purely mechanical. The Escape PHEV is front drive only. It is also the poster child for what can go wrong in a chip shortage with delays and production holds. People who have driven one have praised it, but also bemoan the lack of availability.

The reason I bring all this up is because this is a very hot market segment. Toyota was selling more RAV4 hybrids than Jeep sold Cherokees before the chip shortage. The models with traditional ICE powertrains are hot sellers. Stellantis would be foolish not to leverage the full Dodge dealer network to tap into this market.

 

[Deckard Cain]

This Hornet thread is generating some interesting and informative discussion that is enjoyable to this Dodge fan. Indeed, the Hornet is potentially a significant vehicle for Dodge and just as significant is the linkage to Alfa Romeo. Many opinions, mine included, are couched in a strong relationship to Dodge and our judgements, expectations and standards are high and demanding. Our posts are also a bit inflated in what Dodge could do with Hornet. I really expected a direct Porsche rival, but reality has been tempered by a pragmatic realization and acceptance of what seems to be coming. The general visual common characteristics of these vehicles should have been expected and yet the victory for Dodge that the existence of the Hornet alone and what Dodge has done must be celebrated and embraced not panned. In truth, it is a corporate decision that should have been made years ago with a Dodge spin-off of Giulia and Stelvio that would have paid huge dividends that justify the platform investment.
The attached map of Alfa Romeo dealerships was a stark evidence for my monthly surprise of AR sales, living in the well served NY metro area where ARs are plentiful and demographics ripe for the brand. Clearly looking at a large chunk of America unserved by AR, the decision on a Dodge Hornet in thousands of dealerships and a deep following is so compellingly correct.
Ok, I’m still a dreamer, still hoping a Dodge derived Stelvio spin-off, Porsche fighter is possible soon. If you saw how well that Stelvio is selling on Long Island, you would be dreaming with me too. As stated in my first blog, the Alfa Romeo-Dodge linkage is just a natural. Should we call our Porsche killer Rampage?

Mind you, I think that Dodge deserves the Hornet. And it definitely is a sensible corporate decision to offer it. Dodge also needs a mid-size SUV and sedan.
I am talking about my perspective as an European about Alfa. The Toenail (as it will be spelled there in the US) will be seen as a less powerful rebadge of the Hornet with a much more limited dealer network without even having the advantage of the unique Alfa design flair going for it. Thus, on the perspective of the management of the Alfa brand this lazy rebadge is disastrous for its perception as a premium brand in the US. This will not affect it's perception in Europe, where the Dodge Hornet won't be sold.

As for the need of larger sedans and SUVs as well as a performance coupe and a halo sports car? Yeah, the Maserati Grecale and MC20 were supposed to come out as Alfa models that Manley decided to change to Maserati. So, he screwed over Alfa in every way possible.

As for the Hornet, you can look at the Tonale and be sure of one thing: it will be a gorgeous compact SUV. And I dare say it will sell more in the US than the Tonale in Europe.

 

[JasonB]

New things for Tonale and Hornet

 

[AlexB]

As much as I understand the frustration from both Dodge’s and Alfa’s sides of this argument, I have to remind myself and others that this is a test mule or a pre-production or whatever you want to call, and the design, interior and exterior, might not be finalized.

We can’t blame it all on Manley. The current management, Alfa, Dodge or even Stellantis, could change whatever they see not fit for the purpose of the investment.

I believe @Bili stated by the time merger closed the Tonale & Horrent made it very far in the development cycle.

 

[Mopar392]

I believe @Bili stated by the time merger closed the Tonale & Horrent made it very far in the development cycle.

True. But how many times have FCA or Stellantis either changed, postponed or even killed a development that were supposed to be in advance stage?

 

[AlexB]

True. But how many times have FCA or Stellantis either changed, postponed or even killed a development that were supposed to be in advance stage?

When the 2015-2016 changes are factored out, it’s less than thought of.

 

[Bili]

 

[JasonB]

Pomigliano d'Arco, dall'Alfasud all'Alfa Romeo Tonale

 

[Deckard Cain]

The rear headlight design is different from the Tonale.

 

[TripleT]

baby Charger or Durango front clip.

 

[pumadog]

At least! Too bad they couldn‘t change the C pillars/rear doors.

 

[UN4GTBL]

The rear headlight design is different from the Tonale.

I spy a new grille badge!

 

[redriderbob]

 

[redriderbob]

SPOTTED: 2023 Dodge Hornet Models In Both Europe & The USA!​

American Sighting Looks To Be Production Ready...​

We are just days from Dodge’s unveiling of its all-new C-segment SUV: the Dodge Hornet (GG). The Hornet will be the first all-new vehicle to arrive in the Dodge lineup since 2011.

Over the past few months, we have seen multiple prototypes of the Hornet both on the roads of Europe and the United States. After seeing those prototypes, many of us in the media took the Hornet as nothing more than a badge-engineered Alfa Romeo Tonale. However, there are some more evident changes to the new Dodge crossover than what was originally expected.

SPOTTED: 2023 Dodge Hornet Models In Both Europe & The USA!

We are just days from Dodge's unveiling of its all-new C-segment SUV: the Dodge Hornet (GG). The Hornet will be the first all-new vehicle to arrive in the Dodge lineup since 2011. Over the past few months, we have seen multiple prototypes of the Hornet both on the roads of Europe and the United...

moparinsiders.com