Dodge Hornet

[bill burke]

Holy Hornet Trlple, we agree totally, words out of my mouth. That dealership statement, exactly right. We car dudes will critique every nut, bolt and styling element, but Jack and Jill Average will go bangers over this, with less scrutiny then us dudes and buy them up. Just as stated Tonale is the global version, Dodge for America. Linkage accomplished, sales to follow.

 

[TripleT]

I was expecting more drastic differences. Especially in the interior. I hope the final product is more differentiated because otherwise there'll obviously exist cannibalization.
PSA clearly knows how to do proper rebadges because the cars of each brand have clearly differentiated character. This? This is lazy. Heck, they could've used the Compass interior as the base instead of the Tonale because it fits Dodge's character a lot more.

I think is soon to make that conclusion, It not even on Dodge wheels or has a Dodge steering wheel. For sure there will be seating and material differences also. This is early product driver we are not meant to see. I don't know where you are in the world but there won't be much canibalization because there is nearly no dealer cross overs and this is a massive country..... see all the space between Alfa Dealers. Nearly half the states have 1 or less dealer.

 

[TripleT]

for comparison

 

[Bello]

Too small. Should and least be bigger than a Cherokee. This is USA. We like bigger things. Should be a midsize SUV. Look how the Journey sold even after it aged. Make the Hornet bigger. I would buy it was bigger. We don't need another Compass or Renegade. They have large and small now and nothing in between. Look how big the equinox is.

 

[TripleT]

Too small. Should and least be bigger than a Cherokee. This is USA. We like bigger things. Should be a midsize SUV. Look how the Journey sold even after it aged. Make the Hornet bigger. I would buy it was bigger. We don't need another Compass or Renegade. They have large and small now and nothing in between. Look how big the equinox is.

Welcome did you just come here to gripe? DONT BuY one. no Dodge doesn’t need a freakin minivan Equinox or a fleet queen low margin subprime replacement. You point to the C segment Jeeps and ignore all the Ds. Just because Dodge is getting a C segment vehicle does not mean a D isn’t on the way but it better darn well not be anything close to a Equinox or Journey. It better have some guts and make some margin.
Never understand to gripes about more product????

 

[James.A]

I agree. This decision on the Tonale-Hornet linkage is a sound business decision that puts emphasis on performance character. Inevitably there will be other linkages across the Stellantis family, but Dodge and Alfa Romeo is a natural. There was, I suspect, internal resistance that this particular linkage would diminish the AR growth agenda and conflict with that significantly in North America. I also suspect that new thinking at corporate saw things differently and realized that AR would be focused globally and the Dodge would be “Americanized” and it’s spin off would generate huge profits with little harm to AR in North America. The key here is cleverly sharing assets under the skin and making these soul mates very different in styling and perception. Alfa Romeo’s growth plan was conceived by Sergio with a markedly Italian bias and that plan has fallen short to reality and to a new thinking under Carlos. This old protectionist thinking insultingly denied the management at Alfa Romeo and Dodge had the talent to pull this creative linkage thinking off. Hornet, I predict, will prove it can be done at the benefit for both brands. Prediction for Dodge stated above. Best selling Dodge in the lineup.

"Very different in styling and perception"????? Its barely a re-skinned Tonale, meaning its effectively a Tonale without the Alfa grill, just a rebadge. The steering wheel/interior is the same except for ... a badge. I sure hope this isn't done across the board. God help the large cars. As for this no dealer overlap comment above, I have two dealers in my area that are Dodge and Alfa on the same property...

 

[Ryan]

for comparison View attachment 6384

Doesn’t matter how big the dealer network is. A rebadge is a rebadge. If they were going to do this, it should only be sold as a Dodge in North America and let it be an Alfa in other countries.

Major disappointment. No new product since 2013 and it’s literally some new pieces of plastic and lights on an Alfa.

 

[TripleT]

You all must not be paying attention PSA controls the company it entire lineup is “Reskins”. All people have said was more product more product…. Then they get it and gripe and complain. Does Alfa and Dodge both need a entry level vehicle? Yes. Does Alfa and Dodge have very similar missions? Yes. Is the Dealer network sparse outside the large Metros in NA? Extremely. Does the vehicle need to be at CDJR in NA to have a ROI? Absolute!! Would you deny ALFA a entry level vehicle in NA because the existence of CDJR? Insane Are customers different enough to prevent cross shopping. Yes. Will most consumer not make the connection. Yes…… one just needs to do a logic matrix to better understand why this is smart business. Would one rather deny both brands the vehicle at all? Makes no sense.

 

[TripleT]

Doesn’t matter how big the dealer network is. A rebadge is a rebadge. If they were going to do this, it should only be sold as a Dodge in North America and let it be an Alfa in other countries.

Major disappointment. No new product since 2013 and it’s literally some new pieces of plastic and lights on an Alfa.

Please stop minimizing the cost of the development and capital of the components to create distinctive and unique front and rear components. And just plastic is poor understanding of these modern vehicle make me sad that people have learned nothing. You will astounded by the engineering and metal replacement that is Just Plastic. This is NOT a rebadged this have model specific components. For all we know more is to come in the profile components. Either way word matter. Be disappointed if you like but let try to accurate

 

[Ryan]

Please stop minimizing the cost of the development and capital of the components to create distinctive and unique front and rear components.

Sure, as long as you stop acting like this is any different than the badge-engineered cars of the past. Some hills aren’t worth dying on.

 

[TripleT]

Ryan, I have never known you to be inaccurate in order to make a point. By definition this is not a badge engineer job, where grill inserts, badging, and appointments are the primary attributes. This is not the case this more akin to Magnum and 300 then say the RT minivans. You know I am not a fan of badge engineering and is why the technical difference does matter. And maybe that is where our disagreement, the technical difference. Of all the brands these to have the most common goal. And Alfa low volume and reach in NA surely justifies both existence. It remains to be seen what other under the skin changes will define the models. The Alfa was to have Level 2 lightening, if the frugal French didn’t delete them, could be removed for cost saving in the Dodge. But I prefer they stay…… can we still be friends

 

[pumadog]

Ok, this is not badge engineering. It's a nose and booty job. Tonale won't cannibalise Hornet, but Hornet will cannibalise Tonale if you get 90% the same product at 100x more dealers.

If the two cars were designed the PSA way, they would have their own bodies and totally different interiors. This was done the FCA Manley way. Does Dodge lack its own design identity so it can easily use Alfa's GT shoulder line and eye-shaped windows?

 

[Ryan]

Ryan, I have never known you to be inaccurate in order to make a point. By definition this is not a badge engineer job, where grill inserts, badging, and appointments are the primary attributes. This is not the case this more akin to Magnum and 300 then say the RT minivans. You know I am not a fan of badge engineering and is why the technical difference does matter. And maybe that is where our disagreement, the technical difference. Of all the brands these to have the most common goal. And Alfa low volume and reach in NA surely justifies both existence. It remains to be seen what other under the skin changes will define the models. The Alfa was to have Level 2 lightening, if the frugal French didn’t delete them, could be removed for cost saving in the Dodge. But I prefer they stay…… can we still be friends

We can agree to disagree. This doesn’t feel different than, say, a Yukon vs Tahoe. Same body, interior, and engines, different front end and tail lights. I still consider those to be badge engineered, albeit differentiated more than they were in the past.

The difference from that example is that there are people who are GMC loyalists for some strange reason and won’t consider the Chevy. Are there Alfa loyalists? Maybe a few, but more people will want the expanded Dodge dealer network and name familiarity. IMO, there is no reason for the Alfa to exist in NA if the Dodge does. Does this mean the Tonale can be serviced at a Dodge dealer considering it’ll basically be the same vehicle? Probably not IMO unless they change the guidelines and allow all Alfa vehicles to be serviced at Mopar dealerships.

It was said elsewhere that this should be only in Mexico like the Fiat Tipo being sold as a Neon. I agree with that. Alfa finally gets a chance to expand your their brand in the US and Dodge releases 90% the same vehicle. Yeah, I’m a little upset about that. I would like to have seen Alfa flesh out their lineup here and increase sales, but this just made that impossible.

 

[TripleT]

Tipo was a badge job, see the difference? I guess to me that understand the cost of the capital it’s Night and day difference

 

[Ryan]

Tipo was a badge job, see the difference? I guess to me that understand the cost of the capital it’s Night and day difference

Splitting hairs. Different bumpers and lights are inconsequential and doesn’t mean this won’t cannibalize the Tonale.

 

[MPE426HEMI]

Anything new from Dodge would be great anytime soon. Yes, they are hoping the new, younger crowd might jump on board for some sales. Everyone else forgot Dodge even exsisted. That company fell asleep and everyone else moved on and left them in the dirt. They may as well re-badge something to try and sell, they’ve ran out of hellcat motors for every vehicle they have. Leave it the them to keep trying to develop more HP V-8 vehicles when it’s obvious ice is not “in vogue” anymore. Wow! Really? Two electrified vehicles this year? Not bad, only 15 years too late! You know it’s bad when the company “die-hards” on here turn to “positive-thinking” ambassadors! Keep shovelling it guys!

 

[TripleT]

Splitting hairs. Different bumpers and lights are inconsequential and doesn’t mean this won’t cannibalize the Tonale.

Well that for sure is a opinion, from a cost and dévloppement perspective it isn’t inconsequential. The volume is too low for the dealer network and the costumer base at the delesrships as well as the purchase experience is different. I suppose the Alfa dealerships could protest by not ordering them but the one I talked to was pretty excited and will have a head start. I bet the cross shopping is totally different. We will see

 

[TripleT]

Anything new from Dodge would be great anytime soon. Yes, they are hoping the new, younger crowd might jump on board for some sales. Everyone else forgot Dodge even exsisted. That company fell asleep and everyone else moved on and left them in the dirt. They may as well re-badge something to try and sell, they’ve ran out of hellcat motors for every vehicle they have. Leave it the them to keep trying to develop more HP V-8’s when it’s obvious ice is not “in vogue” anymore. You know it’s bad when the company “die-hards”on here turn to “positive-attitude” ambassadors! Keep shovelling it guys!

Huh the company with the youngest demo? Yeah being positive stinks let all go back to trollpar and go on the 3 decade of the sky is falling. A new product is only worth griping about if it a crap heap.

i a hell of a deal when being logical and factual has emotion contributed to it. Most ly a business decision, none of us have seen the final product, and denying the vehicle to the already starving but miniature Alfa network would be horrible no matter any claim here.

 

[TripleT]

Alfa dealership will have to sell 29 per month to match 1 at a Dodge dealer, basically 1 per day…..

 

[Bili]

Ryan, I have never known you to be inaccurate in order to make a point. By definition this is not a badge engineer job, where grill inserts, badging, and appointments are the primary attributes. This is not the case this more akin to Magnum and 300 then say the RT minivans. You know I am not a fan of badge engineering and is why the technical difference does matter. And maybe that is where our disagreement, the technical difference. Of all the brands these to have the most common goal. And Alfa low volume and reach in NA surely justifies both existence. It remains to be seen what other under the skin changes will define the models. The Alfa was to have Level 2 lightening, if the frugal French didn’t delete them, could be removed for cost saving in the Dodge. But I prefer they stay…… can we still be friends

Manley already killed all the technical excellence from Alfa Romeo. More to come in year or two with CMP.