Charger Daytona delayed? Prototypes supposedly failing.

[redriderbob]

We all knew these EV "Chargers" wouldn't sell. But apparently it's worse than expected. There are credible sources online saying that Dodge has taken 82 orders for this car. Eighty two. They were selling almost 80,000 Chargers a year, and they just released an all-new model and they got 82 orders?!

This is beyond bad. This is shaping up to be the worst flop of a car in the U.S. of my entire lifetime....and I lived through the Yugo years.

Those were internal sales in the company before the rollout to dealers

 

[TripleT]

hahahaha it a sales failure that isn't for sale on a slow roll out.... brillant.

The Cheerleading for failure is diabolical

 

[WXman]

hahahaha it a sales failure that isn't for sale on a slow roll out.... brillant.

The Cheerleading for failure is diabolical

No cheerleading is needed. The car is doing enough failing on its own. Look at Stellantis scrambling now. Cancelling or heavily delaying the REV, accelerating the Six Pack Charger, talking about a V8 possible future again, etc. It's funny. If they had just listened to CUSTOMERS to begin with....

 

[AlexB]

hahahaha it a sales failure that isn't for sale on a slow roll out.... brillant.

The Cheerleading for failure is diabolical

Like folks can name the Hybrids GM actual sell in the United States....Stellantis has 3.

 

[TripleT]

Like folks can name the Hybrids GM actual sell in the United States....Stellantis has 3.

4 but 2 of them a cousins..... GM has 10 EV models.

I willing to bet nearly everyone of them will have REEV (PHEV) version by 27'

 

[patfromigh]

I willing to bet nearly everyone of them will have REEV (PHEV) version by 27'

The zero emissions mandates means any vehicle with a tailpipe is out of bounds for half the country. CARB has a sliding scale for PHEV and lumps REEV in with them. In the first year only 20% of PHEV will qualify. It doesn't matter if it is a Hellcat Hemi or a 1,200cc three cylinder range extender charging the batteries in an EV, it has a tailpipe. You've said manufacturers won't invest for only half the country.

CARB thrives on the ambiguity in the Federal laws and regulations. Eliminate those ambiguities in the law and CARB weakens.

 

[TripleT]

The zero emissions mandates means any vehicle with a tailpipe is out of bounds for half the country. CARB has a sliding scale for PHEV and lumps REEV in with them. In the first year only 20% of PHEV will qualify. It doesn't matter if it is a Hellcat Hemi or a 1,200cc three cylinder range extender charging the batteries in an EV, it has a tailpipe. You've said manufacturers won't invest for only half the country.

CARB thrives on the ambiguity in the Federal laws and regulations. Eliminate those ambiguities in the law and CARB weakens.

Never said that, I have said the opposite, I said that it puts them in a bad position from a manufacturing position. REEV solves this.

CARB will double down or accelerate as an opposition to Trump., before they roll back.

REEVs are a saving grace from a Manufacturing position. Anyone that has seen a Skateboard line versus a unibody line will acknowledge this.

Please Name the OEM.... all the Keyboard CEO that doesn't have a EV ready to market for CARB compliance. As we advocate for STLA to disregard the regulation and not do business with half the country, WHILE everyone does. GM, Toyota, Honda, Ford, VW group, Korea corp, Mazda, Nissan, JLR .... if your selling in NA or Europe you have Municipality compliant EV and PHEVs.

Only one you can point to is RV where it is nearly impossible, CARB didn't give a crap, they played chicken an lost.

And yes I take Cookie bets also on GM having REEV versions of multiples of their EVs to address the blue nation in between the coasts.

 

[patfromigh]

I'm using Toyota as an example because the Toyota Dealers Council president provided some details in an interview by Larry P. Vellequette from Automotive News. The dealers are lobbying heavily in the CARB states to slow the mandate process. Automotive News is behind a paywall, but Kirk Kreifels quoted from the article on his You Tube channel while speculating the next Toyota Highlander. CARB rules dictate that in 2026 35& of new vehicles must be "zero emissions". (My term, I forget what the official term CARB uses is.) Of that 35%, no more than 20% can be PHEV. Toyota sold 2.3 million vehicles in the US. Doing the math, Kreifels then says, "Let's estimate 50% of Toyota sales are in CARB states: 1.15 million * 35% = 400,000 EVs minimum, of which only 80,000 can be PHEV ..."

Toyota is spending billions of Dollars for battery and EV production in North America, they are not playing chicken. The problem is a vast majority of American consumers don't want battery electric vehicles.

 

[TripleT]

I'm using Toyota as an example because the Toyota Dealers Council president provided some details in an interview by Larry P. Vellequette from Automotive News. The dealers are lobbying heavily in the CARB states to slow the mandate process. Automotive News is behind a paywall, but Kirk Kreifels quoted from the article on his You Tube channel while speculating the next Toyota Highlander. CARB rules dictate that in 2026 35& of new vehicles must be "zero emissions". (My term, I forget what the official term CARB uses is.) Of that 35%, no more than 20% can be PHEV. Toyota sold 2.3 million vehicles in the US. Doing the math, Kreifels then says, "Let's estimate 50% of Toyota sales are in CARB states: 1.15 million * 35% = 400,000 EVs minimum, of which only 80,000 can be PHEV ..."

Toyota is spending billions of Dollars for battery and EV production in North America, they are not playing chicken. The problem is a vast majority of American consumers don't want battery electric vehicles.

Yes the consumers and regulators are mismatched. If the majority of consumer voted with their dollars like the pull the actual levers this mismatch would exist.

Toyota is doing REEV solution where the same platform works across regulatory environments.

 

[patfromigh]

Toyota is doing REEV solution where the same platform works across regulatory environments.

The rumors have it the next RAV4 will have a plug and play (my term) powertrain. Legacy hybrid will be standard, PHEV based on that hybrid system optional and pure battery electric also optional. All are front drive based with e-axles optional. The next Highlander looks to be a three row EV only. The BZ4X is a FAIL. It has no name recognition and weird styling. The GZ4X battery electric powertrain will be in the next RAV4 and probably the Highlander.

Irony alert, a battery electric RAV4 would probably appeal to retirees in warm weather red states where CARB rules don't apply. The confiscatory taxes of the blue areas decimates retirement income and many move out to the red states. Customer expectations in such places are heavily influenced by neighborhood electric vehicles with a robust supporting infrastructure. A step up to a small battery electric car is not a huge gap.

 

[VANISHING POINT #1]

Bring back the 440 Magnum or the 1968 Dodge Charger 2 doors only with those double bubble tail lamps and Corvette Coke body style of that era.....

The zero emissions mandates means any vehicle with a tailpipe is out of bounds for half the country. CARB has a sliding scale for PHEV and lumps REEV in with them. In the first year only 20% of PHEV will qualify. It doesn't matter if it is a Hellcat Hemi or a 1,200cc three cylinder range extender charging the batteries in an EV, it has a tailpipe. You've said manufacturers won't invest for only half the country.

CARB thrives on the ambiguity in the Federal laws and regulations. Eliminate those ambiguities in the law and CARB weakens.

Abolish CARB!

 

[VANISHING POINT #1]

Never said that, I have said the opposite, I said that it puts them in a bad position from a manufacturing position. REEV solves this.

CARB will double down or accelerate as an opposition to Trump., before they roll back.

REEVs are a saving grace from a Manufacturing position. Anyone that has seen a Skateboard line versus a unibody line will acknowledge this.

Please Name the OEM.... all the Keyboard CEO that doesn't have a EV ready to market for CARB compliance. As we advocate for STLA to disregard the regulation and not do business with half the country, WHILE everyone does. GM, Toyota, Honda, Ford, VW group, Korea corp, Mazda, Nissan, JLR .... if your selling in NA or Europe you have Municipality compliant EV and PHEVs.

Only one you can point to is RV where it is nearly impossible, CARB didn't give a crap, they played chicken an lost.

And yes I take Cookie bets also on GM having REEV versions of multiples of their EVs to address the blue nation in between the coasts.

CARB NEEDS TO BE ABOLISHED

 

[VANISHING POINT #1]

I don't like these new Chargers anyway. They are ugly way way overpriced and too HEAVY in weight.

If it gets off the ground let's see the STEALERSHIPS mark up these new cars like they did with the 2023 Dodge Challengers and using their high pressure sales tactics again...... Payback time!

 

[TripleT]

CARB NEEDS TO BE ABOLISHED

So, your anti-state rights across the board or just on issues you disagree with? I think it dumb, anti-free market, dishonest, and misdirected, but that is what the citizens of those State have voted for.

 

[WXman]

And now, these Charger EVs aren't even unloaded from the trucks and they are doing $14k or more off sticker to try and move them.

When Hellcats came out, MSRP mark-ups. Gladiator, MSRP mark-ups. Ram TRX, MSRP mark-ups. NEW models of hot vehicles demand attention and get initial price hikes. A brand new Charger should be so hot that they see the same thing, but instead they are marking them WAY down to try and just sell some. That pretty much says what needs to be said.

 

[James.A]

And now, these Charger EVs aren't even unloaded from the trucks and they are doing $14k or more off sticker to try and move them.

When Hellcats came out, MSRP mark-ups. Gladiator, MSRP mark-ups. Ram TRX, MSRP mark-ups. NEW models of hot vehicles demand attention and get initial price hikes. A brand new Charger should be so hot that they see the same thing, but instead they are marking them WAY down to try and just sell some. That pretty much says what needs to be said.

Can you give examples? I have not seen that at all in my area.

 

[IronMike68]

Having formerly lived in California for close to 20 years, before moving to Texas, there are 3 forms of Government running California, 1st is the DMV they are GOD 2nd is the CARB they are Jesus then 3 is California State legislature. The CARB which is the 16 not so Wise Men/Women LOL !!! The CARB was supposed to have people that were experts in their respective fields, like Automotive,Industrial,Agricultural and so forth but lately it has been run by people who are even experts instead the come from career fields like Doctors and Lawyers and such. There was at one point the CARB was determining if they should ban all dark colored cars. Their belief was the A/C system takes longer to cool the interiors of darker colored cars therefor it increased emissions output. Hard to do business with a bunch of nut jobs running the show, Another thing is their bi-annual smog checks and when a manufacturer certifies a said make and model for that year it is supposed to be at that specific emissions target, yet the CARB manipulates the test every year changing the score without recourse. Somewhere I have stacks of my SMOG Certificates showing every SMOG test my 1992 Dodge Dakota and from 1994 and on it changed the Maximum Allowable targets each and every 2 years.

 

[VANISHING POINT #1]

No cheerleading is needed. The car is doing enough failing on its own. Look at Stellantis scrambling now. Cancelling or heavily delaying the REV, accelerating the Six Pack Charger, talking about a V8 possible future again, etc. It's funny. If they had just listened to CUSTOMERS to begin with....

Dodge is done. You can put a fork through them. Buy a V8 Mustang instead.

 

[TripleT]

Dodge is done. You can put a fork through them. Buy a V8 Mustang instead.

Somebody needs to before it gets shelved.

 

[Jeeper1961]

Having formerly lived in California for close to 20 years, before moving to Texas, there are 3 forms of Government running California, 1st is the DMV they are GOD 2nd is the CARB they are Jesus then 3 is California State legislature. The CARB which is the 16 not so Wise Men/Women LOL !!! The CARB was supposed to have people that were experts in their respective fields, like Automotive,Industrial,Agricultural and so forth but lately it has been run by people who are even experts instead the come from career fields like Doctors and Lawyers and such. There was at one point the CARB was determining if they should ban all dark colored cars. Their belief was the A/C system takes longer to cool the interiors of darker colored cars therefor it increased emissions output. Hard to do business with a bunch of nut jobs running the show, Another thing is their bi-annual smog checks and when a manufacturer certifies a said make and model for that year it is supposed to be at that specific emissions target, yet the CARB manipulates the test every year changing the score without recourse. Somewhere I have stacks of my SMOG Certificates showing every SMOG test my 1992 Dodge Dakota and from 1994 and on it changed the Maximum Allowable targets each and every 2 years.

Welcome to Texas Mike.