Stellantis (with Carlos Tavares) Foxconn Conference Call : 5:45 EDT (U.S.)/ 11:45 am CEST( Turin & Paris)

[Bili]

@AlexB

Yes. 500 has Samsung/Harman infotainment and Samsung battery cells which are assembled into batteries by ex-FCA in Italy. For batteries the same should be true for Giorgio based BEV products.

For my liking ex-PSA and now Stellantis is too much into cooperation with Chinese companies. For software, connectivity, battery cells and batteries. Even transmission JV is with Chinese owned company.
The major goal for ex-PSA is always price, not performance.

I can't say how much cheaper is production of for example 3008 PHEV in comparison to Compass PHEV. But the difference is huge, really huge.

One important note. For ex-PSA performance equals production costs.

 

[cygnus]

Yawn, big nothingburger. STLA management just wants to use Foxconn to put pressure on other electronics suppliers but STLA management is going to find working with Foxconn isn't what they think it is.

Unless you absolutely push Foxconn in a direction that is extremely well defined from a specifications standpoint, they will drag their feet. Foxconn doesn't write firmware and Foxconn doesn't make EV batteries.

Foxconn shines when YOU bring the bill of material for something, sourced YOURSELF, to their doorstep and tell them to make it with their army of workers. And it's on the customer to define acceptable yield rates, define how QC will be conducted post-assembly, and collaboratively work with the supplier on how to build their line for manufacturing scale. This is something that STLA has no experience with in the electronics realm. Maybe they can get some people from Magneti Marelli on loan. Oh, and Foxconn WILL steal your designs and sell it to somebody else. Have you seen what Apple is now requiring Foxconn to do in their facilities? Every square foot of their facilities must be recorded on video, including the shipping docks, and Apple has direct access to this footage at all times.

Apple knows that Foxconn, while useful, cannot be trusted. They had to write their own security protocols for doing business with Foxconn, and they're now federating these protocols to Tier 2 / 3 Foxconn suppliers.

Foxconn's workforce has ZERO automotive manufacturing experience. If they're asking Foxconn to do vehicle assembly, this will be an absolute disaster.

So let's say STLA management wants to build a UCONNECT 6 on Android OS and they don't want to pay Japan Display the fat margins for the 10.25' screens - they're expecting Foxconn to do it for them. Wrong. Foxconn isn't going to build your BoM for you.

 

[AlexB]

@AlexB

Yes. 500 has Samsung/Harman infotainment and Samsung battery cells which are assembled into batteries by ex-FCA in Italy. For batteries the same should be true for Giorgio based BEV products.

For my liking ex-PSA and now Stellantis is too much into cooperation with Chinese companies. For software, connectivity, battery cells and batteries. Even transmission JV is with Chinese owned company.
The major goal for ex-PSA is always price, not performance.

I can't say how much cheaper is production of for example 3008 PHEV in comparison to Compass PHEV. But the difference is huge, really huge.

One important note. For ex-PSA performance equals production costs.

I think some PSA products where planning to use Huawei which goes to Carlos being cheap.. now with U.S. sanctions on Huawei together with Chrysler ownership means those plans got scrap/migrated to Foxconn as well as Samsung+FCA relationship.

 

[cygnus]

@AlexB

Yes. 500 has Samsung/Harman infotainment and Samsung battery cells which are assembled into batteries by ex-FCA in Italy. For batteries the same should be true for Giorgio based BEV products.

For my liking ex-PSA and now Stellantis is too much into cooperation with Chinese companies. For software, connectivity, battery cells and batteries. Even transmission JV is with Chinese owned company.
The major goal for ex-PSA is always price, not performance.

I can't say how much cheaper is production of for example 3008 PHEV in comparison to Compass PHEV. But the difference is huge, really huge.

One important note. For ex-PSA performance equals production costs.

Agreed. The less Chinese content in a vehicle I purchase, the better.

 

[AlexB]

@AlexB

Yes. 500 has Samsung/Harman infotainment and Samsung battery cells which are assembled into batteries by ex-FCA in Italy. For batteries the same should be true for Giorgio based BEV products.

For my liking ex-PSA and now Stellantis is too much into cooperation with Chinese companies. For software, connectivity, battery cells and batteries. Even transmission JV is with Chinese owned company.
The major goal for ex-PSA is always price, not performance.

I can't say how much cheaper is production of for example 3008 PHEV in comparison to Compass PHEV. But the difference is huge, really huge.

One important note. For ex-PSA performance equals production costs.

School of Le Cost Killing strikes again.

 

[AlexB]

Yawn, big nothingburger. STLA management just wants to use Foxconn to put pressure on other electronics suppliers but STLA management is going to find working with Foxconn isn't what they think it is.

Unless you absolutely push Foxconn in a direction that is extremely well defined from a specifications standpoint, they will drag their feet. Foxconn doesn't write firmware and Foxconn doesn't make EV batteries.

Foxconn shines when YOU bring the bill of material for something, sourced YOURSELF, to their doorstep and tell them to make it with their army of workers. And it's on the customer to define acceptable yield rates, define how QC will be conducted post-assembly, and collaboratively work with the supplier on how to build their line for manufacturing scale. This is something that STLA has no experience with in the electronics realm. Maybe they can get some people from Magneti Marelli on loan. Oh, and Foxconn WILL steal your designs and sell it to somebody else. Have you seen what Apple is now requiring Foxconn to do in their facilities? Every square foot of their facilities must be recorded on video, including the shipping docks, and Apple has direct access to this footage at all times.

Apple knows that Foxconn, while useful, cannot be trusted. They had to write their own security protocols for doing business with Foxconn, and they're now federating these protocols to Tier 2 / 3 Foxconn suppliers.

Foxconn's workforce has ZERO automotive manufacturing experience. If they're asking Foxconn to do vehicle assembly, this will be an absolute disaster.

So let's say STLA management wants to build a UCONNECT 6 on Android OS and they don't want to pay Japan Display the fat margins for the 10.25' screens - they're expecting Foxconn to do it for them. Wrong. Foxconn isn't going to build your BoM for you.

About stealing......its legal under this agreement............Stellantis agreed to no exclusivity. In return Stellantis can opt-out on a program-to-program basis..........but that would lead to a bad brand experience.

 

[cygnus]

About stealing......its legal under this agreement............Stellantis agreed to no exclusivity. In return Stellantis can opt-out on a program-to-program basis..........but that would lead to a bad brand experience.

Lol, this is China.

 

[pumadog]

Foxconn isn't Chinese, it's Taiwanese. They produce all around the world, but mostly in Asia. This JV is based in the Netherlands like Stellantis.

Foxconn - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[cygnus]

Foxconn does nearly all of their manufacturing in China.

You may be thinking of TSMC. TSMC always fabs the latest node process in Taiwan - any other fabs they have always get the prior generation process node.

 

[Jared B]

To me it sounds, the whole story, that anything developed by ex FCA is in process of being dumped. Welcome mister Daiml... I mean PSA.

You stopped just short of saying what I've been thinking for a bit. I'm seeing a lot that I don't like about this merger so far. In fact, I just bought my first non-FCA/Stellantis vehicle after a run of 8 FCA vehicles in the past 5 years.

Hopefully, this merger goes better than I'm thinking it will.