What's new
By:
Mopar Insiders Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

RAM 1200/Rampage/Dakota??

A

Archknight

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
89
Reaction score
82
Points
18
Screenshot_20230503_010955_Chrome.jpg
Will this make it to the US as a competitor to the Maverick and Santa Cruz?? RAM has hinted at a small truck for the NA market and many have seen spy shots of this being tested with heavy camouflage. This model is supposed to be released in Brazil as the RAM 1200, but many suspect it's being tested with the 2.0T hurricane. Do you think RAM would move on bring this to the US?
 
Last edited:
It’s a very nice product, but the problem and why I don’t see it in the U.S. is the price point.

The midsize truck will be more of a RAM DS/Classic replacement.
 
AlexB said:
It’s a very nice product, but the problem and why I don’t see it in the U.S. is the price point.

The midsize truck will be more of a RAM DS/Classic replacement.
Click to expand...
The Mavervick and Santa Cruz aren't in the midsize class, they are compact trucklets with FWD crossover roots, as this one is based of the SUSW (Fiat Toro, Ram 1000) platform. The model the I'm referring to would be in the same category, so that would still leave room for RAM to bring out a midsized (i.e. Colorado, Tacoma, Frontier, Canyon, Ranger) fighter as a BEV.
 
IF it on the STLA Large platform it could be BEV or ICE, basically a JGC with a bed. It would bridge the gap between BOF like the Gladiator and Colorado, and vehicles like that Maverick and Santa Cruz.
 
patfromigh said:
The rumor is the midsize pickup for the USA will be battery electric.
Click to expand...

Correct. This management team isn't interested in competing on price, because they can't.

Hell, they killed the Cherokee, because they couldn't make a compelling product in highest volume / most competitive segment (D-size CUV) in the US market.

And the newest Grand Cherokees (WL74 / 5 passenger & WL75 / 7 passenger), even with their combined sales, with an additional new plant, aren't hitting what the prior generation (WK2) hit with its sales volumes in its peak sales year (2019)
 
Well something for RAM was shown at the dealer conference back in March, but no one has leaked anything on it. Mr. Koval was looking for input on the model and they've mentioned they will develop ICE models in conjuction with electric, since the STLA platforms are supposed to be able to adjust to multiple powertrain options. If RAM is creating a new compact/midsize/tweener model, I suspect it'll utilize every bit of tech they can throw at it to make it better than the competition. Honestly, getting in last to the party when it comes to all the additional components isn't a bad thing. Hopefully they will be able to work out as many problems that could happen with this leap to electrification before introducing a product to consumers.

14 mins in they talk about the smaller pickup.
 
Last edited:
cygnus said:
Correct. This management team isn't interested in competing on price, because they can't.

Hell, they killed the Cherokee, because they couldn't make a compelling product in highest volume / most competitive segment (D-size CUV) in the US market.

And the newest Grand Cherokees (WL74 / 5 passenger & WL75 / 7 passenger), even with their combined sales, with an additional new plant, aren't hitting what the prior generation (WK2) hit with its sales volumes in its peak sales year (2019)
Click to expand...
Who said they killed the Cherokee? Perhaps the current generation is being replaced but certainly not killed off. The next generation, I project, will be all new, completely reinvented, but Jeep is clearly not walking away from the Cherokee or this market segment. I’d look to the STLA platform for the future Cherokee.
 
cygnus said:
Correct. This management team isn't interested in competing on price, because they can't.

Hell, they killed the Cherokee, because they couldn't make a compelling product in highest volume / most competitive segment (D-size CUV) in the US market.

And the newest Grand Cherokees (WL74 / 5 passenger & WL75 / 7 passenger), even with their combined sales, with an additional new plant, aren't hitting what the prior generation (WK2) hit with its sales volumes in its peak sales year (2019)
Click to expand...
Yup, that happens when you double the price (GC). They weren't pulling that off with the cherokee lol
 
bill burke said:
Who said they killed the Cherokee? Perhaps the current generation is being replaced but certainly not killed off. The next generation, I project, will be all new, completely reinvented, but Jeep is clearly not walking away from the Cherokee or this market segment. I’d look to the STLA platform for the future Cherokee.
Click to expand...

The new Cherokee (KM) will be -

1) More Expensive than the Compass (stating the obvious here, but a mid-trim Compass is now in the mid-upper $30K range, which is insane)
2) Will most likely be in the low to mid $40K range for a mid-level trim, vastly more expensive than KL mid-level trim vehicle
3) Will only be available in the 2L
- I doubt they offer an upgrade option to the 3L I6...that engine will be offered exclusively for the WL, around its mid-cycle refresh in calendar 2025.

Interior space on KL was supposedly pretty bad, but why would you ever buy this vehicle vs a used WK2 or WL?

Again - the Pre-Covid 2018-2019 WK2 Limited was the best bang for your back/highest value vehicle that Jeep has made in the modern era. Exactly ZERO of the current offerings, at the current prices, are interesting to me.
 
cygnus said:
The new Cherokee (KM) will be -

1) More Expensive than the Compass (stating the obvious here, but a mid-trim Compass is now in the mid-upper $30K range, which is insane)
2) Will most likely be in the low to mid $40K range for a mid-level trim, vastly more expensive than KL mid-level trim vehicle
3) Will only be available in the 2L
- I doubt they offer an upgrade option to the 3L I6...that engine will be offered exclusively for the WL, around its mid-cycle refresh in calendar 2025.

Interior space on KL was supposedly pretty bad, but why would you ever buy this vehicle vs a used WK2 or WL?

Again - the Pre-Covid 2018-2019 WK2 Limited was the best bang for your back/highest value vehicle that Jeep has made in the modern era. Exactly ZERO of the current offerings, at the current prices, are interesting to me.
Click to expand...

I felt that my KL was a good value compared to a WK2 when I ordered it in 2018.

A comparable Compass is now $3,000 more than my KL. Potential KM pricing scares me.
 
cygnus said:
The new Cherokee (KM) will be -

1) More Expensive than the Compass (stating the obvious here, but a mid-trim Compass is now in the mid-upper $30K range, which is insane)
2) Will most likely be in the low to mid $40K range for a mid-level trim, vastly more expensive than KL mid-level trim vehicle
3) Will only be available in the 2L
- I doubt they offer an upgrade option to the 3L I6...that engine will be offered exclusively for the WL, around its mid-cycle refresh in calendar 2025.

Interior space on KL was supposedly pretty bad, but why would you ever buy this vehicle vs a used WK2 or WL?

Again - the Pre-Covid 2018-2019 WK2 Limited was the best bang for your back/highest value vehicle that Jeep has made in the modern era. Exactly ZERO of the current offerings, at the current prices, are interesting to me.
Click to expand...
Mid 30’s is going average price for small CUV.
 
cygnus said:
Correct. This management team isn't interested in competing on price, because they can't.

Hell, they killed the Cherokee, because they couldn't make a compelling product in highest volume / most competitive segment (D-size CUV) in the US market.

And the newest Grand Cherokees (WL74 / 5 passenger & WL75 / 7 passenger), even with their combined sales, with an additional new plant, aren't hitting what the prior generation (WK2) hit with its sales volumes in its peak sales year (2019)
Click to expand...
Stellantis takes $57,000 ATP on Grand Cherokee.
Grand Cherokee sales are fine.
Your ability to buy one maybe a different story.
 
So building another factory and adding another variant, which is yielding (combined) 25% fewer sales than the single model (in the previous generation), is success by your definition?

www.goodcarbadcar.net

Jeep Grand Cherokee Sales Figures

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics
www.goodcarbadcar.net www.goodcarbadcar.net

2021 sales were goosed because both WK2, WL74, and WL75 were sold that year. Even a good portion of 2022 was goosed by remaining WK2 on the lots.

This is the first year where there is no WK2 crutch. WL74 and WL75, combined, are trending to sell 200K vehicles. That's a really poor result relative to the 242K WK2's that were sold in 2019, out of a single plant.

A fair price would be correlate a price to targeted level demand ensures both plants are on three shifts, plus a small bit of profit. That's how it used to be. Post-Covid, the consumer demand isn't there to justify three shifts at both plants.

Why? Jeep has one of the highest inventory levels of any brand in the US.

I can afford to buy any vehicle that STLA offers. Post-Covid, like a an increasing number of current Jeep owners, don't see the value in buying from Jeep. The Kia Telluride and Hyundai Palisade are much better value.
 
Last edited:
“ fair price would be correlate a price to targeted level demand ensures both plants are on three shifts, plus a small bit of profit. That's how it used to be”
“This is the first year where there is no WK2 crutch. WL74 and WL75, combined, are trending to sell 200K vehicles. That's a really poor result relative to the 242K WK2's that were sold in 2019, out of a single plant.”
2021 through 2022 production been”On-Off”,”On-Off” including ventilation ( Proposed Stellantis pollution settlement includes tree-planting, money for local school), chip shortage, retooling so you can’t compare “bumps & potholes” . vs. a smooth road & year of production.

Thanks to the Bankruptcy changes, Stellantis/FCA has flexibility regarding what is an actual shift, and can quickly dismiss unneeded workers.
Another thing is revenue per model is up with ATP of $57,000.
 
One has to look at the value of the $$... just quoting the price versus old dollar value and product content is not a proper comparison.

For sure the days of running product to cover fixed cost are over. The intention is make money on each product produced.
 
The midsize truck market ( which Dodge created with the original Dakota) is going crazy and seems to be exploding. But as usual, Stellantis has its head up its ass. Will probably get one to market in 2035 and be an EV priced at 120K that nobody wants. The other hot segment these days is small/midsize SUV. We have an 10 year old Cherokee that is being ignored to the point where it is no longer irrelevant. We waited 10 long years for the Grand Cherokee to be update and it bores me to tears. Not to mention the outrageous pricing as a way to force us to fund all the EV garbage. I won't even start with what they are doing to Dodge.

Stellantis is by far the worst thing that has ever happened to Chrysler. Mopar man all my life, but I'm done.
 
Jeeprt said:
The midsize truck market ( which Dodge created with the original Dakota) is going crazy and seems to be exploding. But as usual, Stellantis has its head up its ass. Will probably get one to market in 2035 and be an EV priced at 120K that nobody wants. The other hot segment these days is small/midsize SUV. We have an 10 year old Cherokee that is being ignored to the point where it is no longer irrelevant. We waited 10 long years for the Grand Cherokee to be update and it bores me to tears. Not to mention the outrageous pricing as a way to force us to fund all the EV garbage. I won't even start with what they are doing to Dodge.

Stellantis is by far the worst thing that has ever happened to Chrysler. Mopar man all my life, but I'm done.
Click to expand...
If the Dakota was profitable, they wouldn't have discontinued the model.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top