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Production Tonale!!!

Bili said:
Than for example GKN Twinster AWD system. FCA's Small Wide based cars have GKN's AWD system but it's not Twinster.
Twinster can have axle disconnect and it can be fast or very slow(rear: cheaper) like 0.3 seconds like on Focus RS. There are versions like on Focus RS which can transfer up to 70% of torque at the rear wheels. But Twinster is all about torque vectoring rear differential. As we know both Giulia and Stelvio have TV rear differential.
At the front LSD should IMO be optional. It will further help with handling.
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That sounds very interesting
 
AlfaCuda said:
That sounds very interesting
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I'm not saying they will use it but they can opt for it. They have a lot of options on how to improve handling in comparison to a Jeep Compass. Some will be used, some will not. Of course some solutions may be only for performance versions.

They are taking too much time to present reskinned Compass.
 
I think the front overhangs of Small Wide cars are totally acceptable. The older Small cars like Punto, Mito and also the Compact (Evo) cars like Giulietta have long snouts, but not the Small Wide models. Also the Mini cars (500, Panda) are ok at the front. The Tonale might be a bit longer there because of the typical sweep at the Alfa front, but the pictures don't show a long nose IMHO.

What do you think is the main reason for building the Tonale in Pomigliano instead of Melfi? Shouldn't it be cheaper there, bundled with the other Small Wide (incl. PHEV) vehicles?

Just politics, to keep the plant going when the Panda goes to Poland in a few years?
Because there's yet another model coming to share the platform (Alfa B-SUV, Fiat or smaller Jeep SUV)?
Because the platform evolution demands a different production line anyway?
 
Bili said:
FCA could further differentiate Tonale from Compass by including electronically adjustable suspension which Compass lacks.

Than for example GKN Twinster AWD system. FCA's Small Wide based cars have GKN's AWD system but it's not Twinster.
Twinster can have axle disconnect and it can be fast or very slow(rear: cheaper) like 0.3 seconds like on Focus RS. There are versions like on Focus RS which can transfer up to 70% of torque at the rear wheels. But Twinster is all about torque vectoring rear differential. As we know both Giulia and Stelvio have TV rear differential.
At the front LSD should IMO be optional. It will further help with handling.

Of course FCA is already thinking about next generation Compass so all they'll chose for Tonale could trickle down to a 3rd generation Compass.


I've watched many video and rear many articles/opinions which are saying that Tonale has a long front overhang. That should be false unless that's a styling choice.
Small Wide platform offers modest front overhang.

I will give a list:
  • Jeep Renegade 889 mm
  • Fiat Tipo 893 mm
  • Fiat 500X Urban 877 mm
  • Fiat 500X Cross 898 mm
  • Fiat 500L 850 mm
  • Fiat 500L Cross 871 mm
  • Jeep Compass 917 mm
And for comparison some old Alfa models but also some currently in production
  • Alfa 159 1000 mm
  • Alfa Giulietta 955 mm
  • Alfa Stelvio 861 mm
So Small Wide based car can have a short overhang. All other is style or even crash test related. But one particular crash test is related to a hood length. It's a pedestrian impact.
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The front overhang of Small-Wide cars is not an issue at all.
Well, maybe some people are looking at the Jeep Compass since it has a bit more than the others.
The 159 has an enormous overhang. That car really suffered from being built with a FWD architecture (the concept in which it was based on was a design for a RWD car).
 
pumadog said:
I think the front overhangs of Small Wide cars are totally acceptable. The older Small cars like Punto, Mito and also the Compact (Evo) cars like Giulietta have long snouts, but not the Small Wide models. Also the Mini cars (500, Panda) are ok at the front. The Tonale might be a bit longer there because of the typical sweep at the Alfa front, but the pictures don't show a long nose IMHO.

What do you think is the main reason for building the Tonale in Pomigliano instead of Melfi? Shouldn't it be cheaper there, bundled with the other Small Wide (incl. PHEV) vehicles?

Just politics, to keep the plant going when the Panda goes to Poland in a few years?
Because there's yet another model coming to share the platform (Alfa B-SUV, Fiat or smaller Jeep SUV)?
Because the platform evolution demands a different production line anyway?
Click to expand...

Grande Punto front overhang 875 mm. That's not too much. Punto Evo 890 mm, MiTo 904 mm. Of course some of these dimensions are due to styling solutions.
Usually VW cars have the shortest front overhang in its class. IMO, they have very square like design.


Yes, Tonale looks pretty much similar to Compass in terms of front overhang length.

Tonale in Melfi? AFAIK Tonale with Compass should be saturated and they are expecting higher demand once when European production starts.
Last year they've sold around 74 thousand units in Europe. Renegade sold 72 thousand units last year and will beat it this year.
I think that production of Melfi will exceed 300 thousand units per year with Compass. I will not exclude a possibility of going over 350 thousand units if not close to 400 thousands.
Paint shop could be a bottleneck.
Lines are two. I'm speaking about assembly lines. Maybe there are more but they are grouped as two. One is for Compass and all PHEV models while the other one is for 500X and Renegade. Cars with high voltage electrification need special tolling.

AFAIK from the start plan for Pomigliano was for additional model or models after Tonale. Pomigliano is also a huge establishment. In the past they run as much as 3 separate lines.
 
The Punto and Mito front overhangs look too long, maybe it's just a styling problem. The bigger wheels on SUV might conceal that, while being similar technically.
 
Bili said:
Grande Punto front overhang 875 mm. That's not too much. Punto Evo 890 mm, MiTo 904 mm. Of course some of these dimensions are due to styling solutions.
Usually VW cars have the shortest front overhang in its class. IMO, they have very square like design.


Yes, Tonale looks pretty much similar to Compass in terms of front overhang length.

Tonale in Melfi? AFAIK Tonale with Compass should be saturated and they are expecting higher demand once when European production starts.
Last year they've sold around 74 thousand units in Europe. Renegade sold 72 thousand units last year and will beat it this year.
I think that production of Melfi will exceed 300 thousand units per year with Compass. I will not exclude a possibility of going over 350 thousand units if not close to 400 thousands.
Paint shop could be a bottleneck.
Lines are two. I'm speaking about assembly lines. Maybe there are more but they are grouped as two. One is for Compass and all PHEV models while the other one is for 500X and Renegade. Cars with high voltage electrification need special tolling.

AFAIK from the start plan for Pomigliano was for additional model or models after Tonale. Pomigliano is also a huge establishment. In the past they run as much as 3 separate lines.
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I'll keep hoping for a Small-Wide C-SUV for Fiat to be built in Pomigliano.
Who knows, maybe they'll build the C-SUV that will be revealed for LATAM in Pomigliano to release it in Europe.
Or do you think they'll use the other lines for a different platform?
 
pumadog said:
The Punto and Mito front overhangs look too long, maybe it's just a styling problem. The bigger wheels on SUV might conceal that, while being similar technically.
Click to expand...

Actually for a B segment hatch the have very long front overhang. For example new Polo has 800 mm long front overhang. But VW has square design.

Today it's related to a pedestrian impact. Hood lines, than front bumper material and molding, and so on. AFAIK even big wheel arches on modern cars are related to pedestrian impact. I've read it in an interview with one car designer.

Deckard Cain said:
I'll keep hoping for a Small-Wide C-SUV for Fiat to be built in Pomigliano.
Who knows, maybe they'll build the C-SUV that will be revealed for LATAM in Pomigliano to release it in Europe.
Or do you think they'll use the other lines for a different platform?
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I can not comment. I'm not aware of a C segment Fiat SUV for Brazil. They should make B segment and Low D for Brazil. The only question is about Low D. Is it a 3 row or SUV-Coupe.

B segment in Brazil is called a compact segment.
 
Bili said:
Actually for a B segment hatch the have very long front overhang. For example new Polo has 800 mm long front overhang. But VW has square design.

Today it's related to a pedestrian impact. Hood lines, than front bumper material and molding, and so on. AFAIK even big wheel arches on modern cars are related to pedestrian impact. I've read it in an interview with one car designer.



I can not comment. I'm not aware of a C segment Fiat SUV for Brazil. They should make B segment and Low D for Brazil. The only question is about Low D. Is it a 3 row or SUV-Coupe.

B segment in Brazil is called a compact segment.
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SUV-Coupe

fiat-fastback-concept-salao-de-sp-2018.jpg

GasAxe said:
In my eyes, the Tonale is dead sexy. It will easily compliment the Alfa lineup.
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Agreed
 
That was the one I mean redriderbob.
It's a Small-Wide SUV as well. Not sure if it'll be D or C segment, but since it's Small-Wide I believe it will be C.
Anyway, it's not something that we know off that it will happen. It's just something that I wish to see in Europe.
 
Deckard Cain said:
That was the one I mean redriderbob.
It's a Small-Wide SUV as well. Not sure if it'll be D or C segment, but since it's Small-Wide I believe it will be C.
Anyway, it's not something that we know off that it will happen. It's just something that I wish to see in Europe.
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AFAIK at least 6 cm longer wheelbase in comparison to Jeep Compass with 2.7 meters. Overall length of 4.6 meters.

They called it Low D... I don't think it will be changed in a case it's a Coupe SUV.
 
Deckard Cain said:
That was the one I mean redriderbob.
It's a Small-Wide SUV as well. Not sure if it'll be D or C segment, but since it's Small-Wide I believe it will be C.
Anyway, it's not something that we know off that it will happen. It's just something that I wish to see in Europe.
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It's called the Fiat Fastback Concept... we covered it in November...

moparinsiders.com

Inside Design: Fiat Fastback Concept:

With a wheelbase of 106.1-inches (2,695mm), length of 181.1-inches (4,600mm) long, a width of 80.5-inches (2,045mm) wide and a height of 63.4-inches (1,610mm) high, the Fiat Fastback Concept is a hybrid design of sedan, coupe and UV (Utility Vehicle) all rolled into one. Presented for the first...
moparinsiders.com moparinsiders.com

I dig it.
 
Honestly, Fiat Europe should rather bring a normal C/D SUV. If that's selling well, they can launch additional nonsense like a "SUV coupé".
 
That's just a concept. I'm sure the production version will be more normal.
Just look at the concept for the Fiat Toro and the production version and you'll kown what I mean.
 
@Mopar392

I've said it earlier in this thread although I'm not so sure that they will offer 2.0 diesel/MultiJet without MHEV system.
 
I’m starting to like the engine options especially the gasoline 2.0 turbo MHEV.
For me and my wife, it’s up high in the option list of crossover shopping along with Audi Q3 Sportsback especially if the SQ3 came out.
Unfortunately, both of them are 2021 model cars, and by that time we will most likely would have settled with a crossover.
 
Now that's a solid engine range. I would just add a 2.0 PHEV. But even without it, it's awesome.
A 1.3 PHEV makes a lot of sense to move a lot of units.
 
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Well, depends on the price! If a compact cars costs 40.000 € upwards the air is getting thin for big sales. :p

But it looks like they intend to make the MHEVs pretty mainstream instead of some high up options.
 
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