Hurricane for RAM and GC

[James.A]

the next L car is 100% not being sold in calendar 2023.

Calendar 2024, if we’re lucky.

I'll wait and see but it'll be adios Mopar if in August we're told "sometime next year we hope" or told nothing at all.

 

[bill burke]

I believe this electrification hysteria, promoted by powerful special interests has forced auto manufacturers into a doomed situation not of their choice. It runs against the basic tenants of free market enterprise and attempts to suppress market forces and impose a false demand through the power of political imposition of standards that serve an agenda of the few over the many.
The contradictions and confusion here noted is the result of these false hysterics that auto executives have surrender to and which will backfire.
I too am frustrated and keeping my current mix of cars long term. The tide will turn.

 

[cygnus]

I'll wait and see but it'll be adios Mopar if in August we're told "sometime next year we hope" or told nothing at all.

I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed.

I have one last hope for this company. Just copy what BMW is doing, that's all I'm asking. 3L with a mild hybrid.

My requirements for a new Grand Cherokee -

1) Mild hybrid
2) Next generation Apple Carplay integration - Apple Launching All-New CarPlay Experience in 2023 With These 5 Key Features.

This may never happen, so I may never buy another new vehicle from this company. TBD. I'll buy a used pre-covid 2019/2020 MY WK2 if it comes to it.

Things that should take 1 or 2 years to implemented take 5 to 7, depending on the vehicle lifecycle, because of how everything is outsourced to suppliers. That's not unique to STLA, that's true of the entire industry except Tesla. Tesla is a bit better (innovation model year over model year without waiting 4-5 years for an MCA), but TSLA build quality is $h1t and I would never drive an EV.

 

[Derek]

Next generation Charger - Calendar 2024 (hopefully?) - yes it will have the I6

Ram 1500 - start of Production is November 2023, I think, so deliveries in 2024 - yes it will have the I6

Refreshed Wrangler / Gladiator - TBD but probably yes, late Calendar 2024 or 2025

Grand Cherokee - last of the bunch to get it, calendar 2025 or 2026.



It’s coming, but much later than what people want. It only happens during MCAs. It should have the mild hybrid if STLA wants to be competitive, but who knows. They can’t even get the stuff out the door on time.

Challenger to been shown a different time?

 

[TripleT]

I'll wait and see but it'll be adios Mopar if in August we're told "sometime next year we hope" or told nothing at all.

Go buy an underpowered under size Ford....

You realize they are still selling the current model at the highest margins in the history of the models. You seem to want them to sacrifice that just for you personally, if that all it takes to get you to switch, then switch join commodity brands maybe get LS model of something and blend in with the crowd.

Cardinal rule of marketing you don't sell the future while you're still selling the present. before you get ripped off in the trade as the used car market is about to crash, highest repossession rate in history, IM me so I can help take that ancient 2019 model off your hands.

 

[cygnus]

It’s sounding like there will only be one next generation ICE L CAR.

 

[ChargerFan1]

If they're keeping it (charger) a coupe then that makes sense to put the challenger on hiatus. I didnt think they would abandon the police market but I guess everyone is if we're only looking at cars. Crown vic, Taurus, that chevy thing they didnt sell to the public etc

 

[James.A]

I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed.

I have one last hope for this company. Just copy what BMW is doing, that's all I'm asking. 3L with a mild hybrid.

My requirements for a new Grand Cherokee -

1) Mild hybrid
2) Next generation Apple Carplay integration - Apple Launching All-New CarPlay Experience in 2023 With These 5 Key Features.

This may never happen, so I may never buy another new vehicle from this company. TBD. I'll buy a used pre-covid 2019/2020 MY WK2 if it comes to it.

Things that should take 1 or 2 years to implemented take 5 to 7, depending on the vehicle lifecycle, because of how everything is outsourced to suppliers. That's not unique to STLA, that's true of the entire industry except Tesla. Tesla is a bit better (innovation model year over model year without waiting 4-5 years for an MCA), but TSLA build quality is $h1t and I would never drive an EV.

As annoyed as I am about the lack of Hemi - I'd be happy with what you're proposing.

 

[Derek]

As annoyed as I am about the lack of Hemi - I'd be happy with what you're proposing.

It’s sounding like there will only be one next generation ICE L CAR.Wait!...what?...i thought it was confirmed they would be a next gen challenger. but released at a different time from the charger?

 

[James.A]

Hi - we're on an internet forum. I'll write what I damn please - thanks. Nobody has to make what I want, but Imagine carrying water for a company that that's closing plants (Belvidere), cutting shifts (WTAP is down to 2 from 3), and thinking "yeah, this is great - this is exactly the type of company I want to support".

Well said.

 

[cygnus]

@Derek - initially Bob said there would be two ICE next generation L cars, but I'm not so sure anymore. I don't know if STLA has officially said if the 2023 L cars are the last model year, officially. They've made a hoopla about these 'Last Call Limited Edition' cars, but I don't know if they've come out and said - '2023 Model Year will be the last for the Charger/Challenger', like they have for the Chrysler 300C. They've definitively said the 2023 MY 300C is the last model year.

I have a feeling though there will be a 2024 MY for the existing Charger/Challenger generation, but not a very long one.

Here, I found an article from the CBC that reports 'production ends in 2024' - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/stellantis-car-production-brampton-windsor-ontario-1.6476348

So yes, I think the current generation Charger/Challenger will have a 2024 MY and next generation L car production will start sometime in calendar 2025.

Something tells me that STLA would prefer to make one sedan, and two E-segment SUVs with a retooled Brampton. The E segment SUVs? A Durango successor for Dodge, and maybe some sort additional lifestyle vehicle (something similar to Wrangler but bigger) that doesn't have solid axles. Similar to the Jeep Recon EV, but ICE based, since Brampton is a ICE production facility.

 

[James.A]

Then DON"T. Go somewhere else. Good luck .... you can say anything you want. Just don't expect others to HAVE to agree with you, and bobble head agreement. There is free market out there, take your business elsewhere, it won't be missed.

If the company doesn't do what I want I am leaving..... there is the door.

As for plant closing and reorganizations..... ahhhhhhhh ahhhhhhhh I guess maybe the Koreans aren't, Hard negotiations with the unions and states to create the most profitable future situations of the cost of production is NEW HOW? Personally, I would not do business in that State, the business climate is horrible.

That's what our market economy is based on - competition and choice - make what I'm looking for or I'll go somewhere else. It's a very good thing. Also, sticker packages are not constant evolution and as it was said above - there is no virtue in carrying water for the company. This is the last I'll say on this.

 

[cygnus]

Interesting tidbit from the 3L Inline 6 BMW mild hybrid - "2024 BMW X5 Buyers Guide"

"Finally, the standard six-cylinder X5 will get around 23 MPG combined. We’ll update this section when the EPA releases official figures."

That seems a bit conservative to me. The existing 4WD WK2 gets 21 MPG combined - Gas Mileage of 2020 Jeep Grand Cherokee

The problem is that the current 2023 4xE WL74 (current generation Grand Cherokee five passenger) gets...wait for it

23 MPG combined with a 2L inline 4 and plugin hybrid - Fuel Economy of the 2023 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe

My worry is that STLA is going to opt out of using the mild hybrids and use the current ZF transmission until 2030, which would end my interest with the company. I'm not going to buy into the 3L with a new vehicle unless it has a mild hybrid, sorry. The mild hybrid would take some stress off the engine/turbo. I'm not switching from buying naturally aspirated vehicles to turbos unless it has a mild hybrid.

The 2024 Ram 1500 will be a good indication of STLA's future direction, but unfortunately my guess it will use just the standard 3L Inline 6 as a replacement for the Pentastar V6. The 2024 Ram 1500 3L Inline 6 will not get the mild hybrid eTorque implementation like the 5.7 current does, which is a missed opportunity.

I'm not paying $60K+ for a plugin hybrid + 2L engine, or a 3L Inline 6 without a mild hybrid. You might as well buy a Ford if you're going to roll the dice with a heavy vehicle and a turbo, although their V6 Powerboost is the one decent option they offer.

 

[Ala]

Something tells me that STLA would prefer to make one sedan, and two E-segment SUVs with a retooled Brampton. The E segment SUVs? A Durango successor for Dodge, and maybe some sort additional lifestyle vehicle (something similar to Wrangler but bigger) that doesn't have solid axles. Similar to the Jeep Recon EV, but ICE based, since Brampton is a ICE production facility.

Hope they do a new Durango. So Brampton will be STLA large ICE?

my guess it will use just the standard 3L Inline 6 as a replacement for the Pentastar V6.

Will there be a non-turbo 3L inline 6?

 

[TripleT]

Hurricane 4 is the replacement for the pentastar, will be interesting if that makes it into RAM, it already is in the GC with the PHEV version. I thought I heard it would not be in the RAM. Deconstructing the I6 given the integration of turbos would be interesting.

 

[Mopar392]

With the commitment given to the Pentastar, I wonder where it would be used with most of either the new products or refreshed ones transitioning to Hurricane 4.

 

[TripleT]

With the commitment given to the Pentastar, I wonder where it would be used with most of either the new products or refreshed ones transitioning to Hurricane 4.

I figure the base RAM ongoing.

 

[crapetoin]

Ram will get it way before Grand Cherokee. Grand Cherokee probably won’t get it until its Mid Cycle Refresh in calendar 2025 / 2026 Model Year.
9apps
cartoon hd

 

[TripleT]

Ram will get it way before Grand Cherokee. Grand Cherokee probably won’t get it until its Mid Cycle Refresh in calendar 2025 / 2026 Model Year.

I'd think it was originally intended for GC but didn't quite make it, I suppose since it is already in the wagoneer makes this a reality.

I thought the Hemi had compliance issues before 2025, so would they just dump it for 4xE? and where would that leave the L?

 

[Rustydodge]

I'm starting to get the feeling Ram has a hand or 2 tied behind its back. The decision to drop low profit vehicles (which were also the some of the most efficient) hamstringing the corporates fuel economy averages therefore not allowing for 6.4 optional on 1500 (I have to think that's what was intended for the G/T and some other trims), and Jeep getting the I6 first (by what may end up being a few years) before Ram. Maybe it was the election or EPA mandates not being re-adjusted that left them flat-footed. Of course we've all enjoyed dodges muscle car fun but that has its consequences regarding corporate averages as well. Thank goodness for jeep phev (4xe) success too bad that's the only brand getting to experience them....

Speaking of corporation averages, is that for NA sales only? I'd have to think STLA as a whole would be pretty good so too bad if EPA doesn't consider the entire enterprise.

I do not care that they are the "last" to have a BEV truck (even though barely by 1 model year vs GM, the hummer doesn't count). Media seems to think that matters but it really doesn't. The bigger loss to sales and profit is the lack of meaningful powertrain options for what people actually want to buy (the 6.4 as an optional upgrade like GM 6.2 and the I6 alongside or in addition to V8s like Ford).

End of last year and this year will be low sales for Ram pickup relatively speaking I predict and they will fall away from Chevy and loose #2 brand pretty significantly i think, too bad for all the success and growth over the last 10 years relative other brands (or maybe i'm just pessimistic on this monday). 5.7 Hemi and 5th gen alone with 2023 minor updates are not enough to hang with the new GM interiors and competition's additional powertrain options.

I'll be running my 4th gen into the ground, if there is no 6.4 option and no true hybrid (etorque doesn't count). BEV and range extending BEV are not interesting to me as near-term purchases.