FIAT Chrysler to report 2020 Q3 earnings Oct,28

[MJAB]

In Europe FCA is about 6 months / 12 months late into introduction of mild hybrids.
In my opinion they cut 4x4 range, for example Fiat, in order to have lower emissions and push customers towards Jeep (example Fiat 500X with no more 4x4 models).
To add additional taxation per emission put in place in some countries, like Italy.

 

[MJAB]

FCA published the total cost of "La Nuova 500" electric vehicle project.

"... In total, between the costs of design, development and engineering and the construction of the production line, it represents an investment of over €700 million. ..."
The excellence of Mirafiori, the largest FCA complex in the world

Time-to-market was 24 months.
Before presentation pre-orders were about 12k, of which more than 80% outside Italy.

Fiat 500 is one of FCA models whose share of sales registrations are less dependent to Italy.

Without an electrified version (mild hybrid, hybrid, PHEV or BEV) sales will be lower in Europe since incentivation that are currently active in many european countries.

 

[patfromigh]

In Europe FCA is about 6 months / 12 months late into introduction of mild hybrids.
In my opinion they cut 4x4 range, for example Fiat, in order to have lower emissions and push customers towards Jeep (example Fiat 500X with no more 4x4 models).
To add additional taxation per emission put in place in some countries, like Italy.

Welcome to Mopar Insiders! The other forum treated you miserably.

 

[Bili]

Without an electrified version (mild hybrid, hybrid, PHEV or BEV) sales will be lower in Europe since incentivation that are currently active in many european countries.

Many European countries have CO2 related taxes. Actually now much more than in the past. I'm not fan of such approach. In some countries they are excessive and not helpful for premium car makers.

About MHEV introduction. I don't know how much late is FCA. There are not much if any P2 MHEV on the market and FCA's plans for FWD based cars are all about P2 MHEV. That's good if you ask me. I prefer it over BSG MHEVs.

But there is one area where IMO FCA is late. Introduction of products on this new Fiat 500 platform. It's state of the art "multienergy" (now I'm using PSA vocabulary) platform. AFAIK it's capable of ICE only, MHEV, P4 PHEV and of course BEV.

 

[AlexB]

@AlexB

Can you cover PSA Q3 2020 Earnings?

I will try, and with GM as well. Replay Ford on Friday.

 

[MJAB]

Some notes of Make Manley as president of ACEA (European Automobile Manufacturers' Association.

"“COVID pandemic: biggest risk ever to face EU auto industry,” warns Michael Manley. Published the 20 of octobber 2020.

)

 

[Deckard Cain]

Many European countries have CO2 related taxes. Actually now much more than in the past. I'm not fan of such approach. In some countries they are excessive and not helpful for premium car makers.

About MHEV introduction. I don't know how much late is FCA. There are not much if any P2 MHEV on the market and FCA's plans for FWD based cars are all about P2 MHEV. That's good if you ask me. I prefer it over BSG MHEVs.

But there is one area where IMO FCA is late. Introduction of products on this new Fiat 500 platform. It's state of the art "multienergy" (now I'm using PSA vocabulary) platform. AFAIK it's capable of ICE only, MHEV, P4 PHEV and of course BEV.

Can this platform accomodate B-segment cars? Or only city cars?

 

[Deckard Cain]

Let's say that my opinion about lack of investment in Europe was a good one. Folks on the other forum would disagree.

Even Sergio had admitted it in 2018 shortly before his death.

On the other forum they are myopic about Chrysler and Dodge. While there's no new cars for those brands they will always complain.

 

[patfromigh]

FCA is starting with drivetrains and the necessary tooling for installing the next generation of those drivetrains. Maybe the company could have put all new sheet metal on the Lx cars, but would that help the fleet average fuel economy?

The Wrangler 4Xe starts production in just a matter of weeks, it will be available for sale in a matter of months. The news about an electrified Ram has been met with derision on a different forum. Yet the tooling will be in place to install a rear-drive based PHEV drivetrain into a Ram truck when the Jeep Wagoneer starts production.

I agree that the European product mix needs a lot of attention. I hope Fiat can have a modern B-segement vehicle out of this.

 

[Bili]

Mike Manley

Yeah, thank you, Richard. So I just like to talk a little bit about Maserati. As I mentioned earlier after we initially delayed it because of the coronavirus outbreak, we hosted the much-anticipated Maserati brand event in the beginning of September in Modena. And I talked openly in the past on the calls about the challenges Maserati's face and the things we needed to fix. So in addition to our plans to expand Maserati's portfolio with the reveal of all new MC20 super sports car, and of course, the teaser that we show the all new Grecale SUV, we laid out our plans to bring Maserati into its new era and provided ambitious yet I think, achievable targets for the brand.

The key elements and expectations for our plans in Maserati include targeting at least one major launch per year starting next year, electrifying over half of the brand's portfolio within the next 18 months and equipping all Maserati nameplates with a better offering by 2024 when we expected completed the renewal of the entire lineup. And from a financial perspective targeting Maserati's return to profitability next year, and achieve an adjusted EBIT margin of approximately 15% by 2023.

And I'm more than confident than ever that Maserati's new course with a regular cadence of new product launches, cutting edge technology, genuine innovation and a new strategy for electrification will restore the brand to its rightful position in the global luxury segment. And I believe that these elements coupled with Maserati's new management team will successfully execute this plan and just as important, we will have laid the foundation to ensure the continued success of this iconic luxury brand.

Charles Coldicott

Yeah, good afternoon guys, and congratulations on a great result, I had just a couple of questions on EVs and CO2 actually. So on electric vehicles, you've only sold a small amount of Fiat 500 electrics and plug in hybrid jeeps so far. So I'm just wondering if you could give us some sort of expectations on the volume for those models once production is fully ramped up, particularly in Europe, I guess? And then on the CO2 side, so for 2021 can you just clarify, are you locked into paying Tesla for the benefit of the European CO2 pool, which I think you previously said would be a sort of EUR400 million to EUR500 million cash payment next year? Or is it conceptually possible that you could pool with PSA and therefore comply with the regulations as just Stellantis and therefore not require the Tesla pool? Thank you.

Mike Manley

Sorry, Charles, this is Mike. Obviously, so close to the launches, you're right in terms of the actual sales of other plug-in hybrids, but what I would tell you is that if we look at all of our electrified vehicles, including mild electrification, obviously, our shares you've seen across Europe has increased fairly significantly, and electrified vehicles in the quarter something like 12%, 13% of our total sales that focused being on the very mild hybrid. Dealer orders, however, and advanced orders for Fiat 500 are well in line with our expectations and what we were hoping for, particularly with 500 bet, and as you know, is really just making its commercial its market debut with progressive launches across Europe. So I have to say that I'm pleased with the volumes. They are in some instances ahead of where we thought they would be which is why we think that the combined strategy we put in place will be successful for this year.

In terms of volumes for next year, I don't want to forecast those at this moment in time. But it does lead into your second question, which is, are we locked with Tesla? Yes, we are. We put in a multi-year strategy, which enabled us to, as I've spoken to, in the past, transition to fully compliant with regard to our product plan, because we've worked very hard to address our European product plan in particular, because of the investments that were originally directed towards North America. And to some extent, Latin America left EMEA behind. They're rapidly catching up now with the launches that you've seen and upcoming launches that will happen over the next 12 months. But we are effectively locked with Tesla and we look to continue the growth in our electrified vehicles to make sure that we're complying '21 as well.

Philippe Houchois

Right if I maybe squeeze the last one, I think on the Q2 call I asked you a question about electric pickups and I got a bit of a cryptic answer. I'm just wondering if you have more to share about how you see Ram, the electrified version of Ram now, since we last spoke, we had the presentation of the Hummer, as well as the Lordstown and so has your - are you ready to share a bit more about how you see around electric?

Mike Manley

Pardon me, my answer to be cryptic apologies. I do see that there will be electrified ramping up in the market place and I would ask you just to stay tuned for a little while and we'll tell you exactly when that will be.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/43...-on-q3-2020-results-earnings-call?part=single

 

[TripleT]

On the other forum they are myopic about Chrysler and Dodge. While there's no new cars for those brands they will always complain.

They seem to hate the decision that Consumer in NA choose. Chrysler got 2 ground up full size vehicles. One no one would pay a profitable margin for, the other is in a sinking segment they still dominate. Dodge has got plenty attention where is counts for muscle car enthusiasts Powertrain, the line up doesn't have many body styles but the powertrain diversity and potency is unrivaled in it history. North America overall has dominated the Capital spend but it has good where the consumer went Trucks and SUV. This is why while other flounder and fall in this difficult market FCA still remains profitable. Those on that forum long for the pitiful underdog Chrysler that made cheap poorly made badge engineered cars that they as consumer could could get at low margins. They are not Mopar fans, the are them fans of themselves and their desire to have Chrysler be KIA with higher overhead and less margins.

and @patfromigh careful with the B segment car stuff. The B segment Car in the EU is the Midsized Car in NA 3 years ago. Way over capacity for the evolving market. Wisdom is understand that the tall seating position and cargo efficiency married with modern suspension and drivetrain has evolved the markets. Yes B segment vehicle is a spot to be, but it better be tall, and styled like CUV.

 

[TripleT]

Question about Grand Cherokee.

Manley is still not calling the 3-row Grand Cherokee "Grand Cherokee". Likely a new name.

Nothing new on that timeframe.
(3-row late Q1-Early Q2) (Grand Cherokee Q3).

The Pilot run trucks are being Mile'd up right now.

 

[Bili]

The Pilot run trucks are being Mile'd up right now.

And it's called?

@AlexB
I believe that 3 row version is also called Grand Cherokee. I have proof which led me to believe so.
Here in MI was an article about naming. I don't know if @redriderbob is author or is it someone else. But Grand Cherokee Unlimited is likely name according to that article

 

[TripleT]

damn I should have asked? sorry it was just referred to as the new Grand Cherokee

 

[AlexB]

They seem to hate the decision that Consumer in NA choose. Chrysler got 2 ground up full size vehicles. One no one would pay a profitable margin for, the other is in a sinking segment they still dominate. Dodge has got plenty attention where is counts for muscle car enthusiasts Powertrain, the line up doesn't have many body styles but the powertrain diversity and potency is unrivaled in it history. North America overall has dominated the Capital spend but it has good where the consumer went Trucks and SUV. This is why while other flounder and fall in this difficult market FCA still remains profitable. Those on that forum long for the pitiful underdog Chrysler that made cheap poorly made badge engineered cars that they as consumer could could get at low margins. They are not Mopar fans, the are them fans of themselves and their desire to have Chrysler be KIA with higher overhead and less margins.

and @patfromigh careful with the B segment car stuff. The B segment Car in the EU is the Midsized Car in NA 3 years ago. Way over capacity for the evolving market. Wisdom is understand that the tall seating position and cargo efficiency married with modern suspension and drivetrain has evolved the markets. Yes B segment vehicle is a spot to be, but it better be tall, and styled like CUV.

And when NA consumer, buys Trucks & SUV they tend to Love the options and extra equipment. The basic Single cap full size pickup have gone away outside of Chevy in Single cab.
FCA in North America appears to be able to have next level profitable in the mid-teens that only Mercedes & BMW have done in their peak (back in 2013-2016). The Pacifica could be called ''RAM Pacifica'' with Chrysler being legally rebranded ''RAM Passenger Vehicles'' and nobody would care (outside of that log).

 

[AlexB]

@TripleT
E.U. B-Class becoming North American midsize means Zaragoza plant from GM/Opel is doomed given the lack of relationship Spain has vs Italy & France +Poland cheaper.

 

[Bili]

Can this platform accomodate B-segment cars? Or only city cars?

Both I think. We'll see. From what I've heard this platform, of course not 100% identical, was a preferred choice for sub Renegade Jeep model and yet unnamed Alfa Romeo B-SUV. Actually Jeep was known as Jeep Junior. Forgot Alfa's name. I think Alfa Mini but don't take my word.

 

[Bili]

@TripleT
E.U. B-Class becoming North American midsize means Zaragoza plant from GM/Opel is doomed given the lack of relationship Spain has vs Italy & France +Poland cheaper.

It's not so simple and I think that it's exactly what @TripleT was trying to say. Zaragoza plant is making B segment crossovers. It's a hot, high margin segment. @TripleT was more into B segment hatchbacks. They are not so good choice. But I would compare them to a C segment sedans in US, not D.

But for high ATP cars for respective segments like mythical 5 door Fiat 500 there will be place on the market. We are talking about 15-20% higher vase price vs. the rest of the segment. I'm doubtful that they'll put that much worth of content.

More on B segment crossovers. They are getting very close in price to C segment hatchbacks. But they are built on slightly less expensive platforms and they are using less sophisticated systems. For example B segment will be offered with a single zone AC while B has dual zone. B segment has rudimentary ADAS functions, C segment has more advanced ADAS. So in the end car maker car earn a lot on B segment crossover which is prices at around 20k euros.

Now more on so called eMini platform. This should be interest of @pumadog and, @pennellotref.
No, there will be no new A segment cars. At least not the classic one as is the new 500. It's here just because of one reason. It's selling at premium for its segment.
But we mas see so called A+ or B- sized cars. Rumored Fiat 120 is one of them. But above all we mas see sub 4 meters or 4 meters CUVs in the future. That's both longer and taller than classic A segment cars. A segment usually ends at around 3.65 meters in length. Making it around 30 cm longer and 5 or 10 cm taller could command higher transaction price but it wouldn't be A segment anymore.
A segment is dying segment in Europe because of impeding EU regulations, both fleet CO2 and mandatory ADAS systems.

 

[Deckard Cain]

Yeah, 4m is already B-segment.

 

[Deckard Cain]

FCA is starting with drivetrains and the necessary tooling for installing the next generation of those drivetrains. Maybe the company could have put all new sheet metal on the Lx cars, but would that help the fleet average fuel economy?

The Wrangler 4Xe starts production in just a matter of weeks, it will be available for sale in a matter of months. The news about an electrified Ram has been met with derision on a different forum. Yet the tooling will be in place to install a rear-drive based PHEV drivetrain into a Ram truck when the Jeep Wagoneer starts production.

I agree that the European product mix needs a lot of attention. I hope Fiat can have a modern B-segement vehicle out of this.

That's just ridiculous. FCA had to react to the deluge of electrified pick-ups that are arriving to the market or they would die. A PHEV 1500 would be an excellent vehicle.
And I agree with TripleT. On the other forum they are bitter because there's no new Chrysler/Dodge products. I understand where they're coming because that's the same situation for all the brands in Europe. But they put the blame on the european side of FCA when those decisions are made by the NAFTA leadership.

I don't blame LATAM for EMEA not getting new Fiats. I know that the decision to not launch new vehicles is done by the EMEA leadership.