Electric Or Bust! What Is Your Opinion?

[cygnus]

Yes withhold federal taxes from a state that generates a large portion of those taxes , let's see how that would play out. Some people are confused that these "tourist" states are the places where a majority of federal funds come from and poor states are the ones that suck up most of the money.

Have you not seen what the Federal Reserve is able to do the last 15 years with respect to fiscal stimulus / open market operations such as buying long dated Treasuries from Primary Dealers (to keep the yield curve down) and propping the market up with buying the S&P Index? (which was a favorite activity of Bernanke's).

In an era where the dollar is increasingly devalued, taxes aren't what they used to be.

 

[patfromigh]

Don't forget there is a run off election happening in California, Taxpayers are running off to other states in huge numbers.

Quiz time: Virginia has dropped out of the CARB mandates. How many states remain in the CARB cabal ?

 

[TripleT]

Its a trick question because DC isn't a State, and some are half in the Minn. and Illinois

 

[BringbackmyHEMI]

The July 8th conference will tell us about Stellantis' electric future, so I am curious to know what you all truly think about the future of electric vehicles.

(No arguing, please be polite and respectful, I really don't want to hear negativity or have to delete any post or lock this post).

I have not seen one of those unsightly new Chargers on the road yet from NC to GA. They have to be feeling that loss in some way or another...I saw a Hornet on the way back from Rome GA to Columbia SC. the other day .. I can NOT fathom why they'd think that going ALL electric & destroying the HEART of the whole Dodge/Mopar legacy & thought that putting a lowsy speaker in the exhaust to try & replicate that signature nostalgic melody (all hemi enthusiasts love to hear when they crank their car) would get a positive response & help their business AT ALL. I've heard every ridiculous explanation from Emissions issues & helping the environment to conspiracy theorists insisting that EVs are merely another tool of control . Sorry , I haven't heard a reasonable & logic explanation YET! I'm curious as to what the future holds for Dodge. Stellantis, as a whole, will be fine probably. I'm sure lots of ppl don't mind driving a Hornet or whatever other ev p.o.s. they make but as far as any version of Charger/Challenger is concerned ...Ain't NOBODY tryna hear that !! I don't wanna even get started on how they hurt my heart when they killed the Chrysler 300 "why did it have to be sacrificed, there's gotta be a better way" !! They left me stranded! Lol! I will never choose to drive ANTHING but a Chrysler 300 or a Charger R/T (preferably an 08-09 before they changed the body style) They're always trying to fix something that's not broken. They made it look sleek when they changed it..I, myself am partial to the rugged look. I want a Charger that looks like it means business (in CHARGE) when it's coming down the street not some sleek looking tacky EV prancing around in heels wanting to be in CHARGE..EVs got "Daddy issues"

 

[TripleT]

Immediate Future is REV.

 

[jimboy]

Chrysler should be all three versions HEV ICE and BEV, a non plug-in hybrid, hurricane I6, and 800V electric, and should have unique styling from Dodge < Sedan , mid size crossover and full size crossover.The DS4 and DS7 would be good placeholders until they can field their own unique models, Both would work in N/A and bring something Unique to Chrysler that is stylish and well designed, then introduce a a large killer Sedan as a range topper, AND give it a version of the Ram DT to replace one of the (too Many) Jeep versions. Those 4 models would fill out the chrysler lineup in a meaningful way. Then re-think the minivans with a long and short wheelbase version.

 

[TripleT]

Chrysler should be all three versions HEV ICE and BEV, a non plug-in hybrid, hurricane I6, and 800V electric, and should have unique styling from Dodge < Sedan , mid size crossover and full size crossover.The DS4 and DS7 would be good placeholders until they can field their own unique models, Both would work in N/A and bring something Unique to Chrysler that is stylish and well designed, then introduce a a large killer Sedan as a range topper, AND give it a version of the Ram DT to replace one of the (too Many) Jeep versions. Those 4 models would fill out the chrysler lineup in a meaningful way. Then re-think the minivans with a long and short wheelbase version.

Like Toyota... they don't need Pure ICE.... and Hurricane 6 would only be needed in Halo model. Outside RAM and Performance oriented Dodges .... nothing needs to be Pure ICE. From a operational perspective REV, HEV, REEV whatever you want to label it, that is the NOW.... STLA is in real risk of failure not to recognize this, The transmission as we know will be a niche offering.

 

[Mopar392]

You are again thinking one technology is to rule them all.
With a proper MHEV, Ram and Dodge can benefit from the added performance.
Plug-In and Extended Range Hybrids can be added to the economy and family oriented vehicles.

 

[TripleT]

You are again thinking one technology is to rule them all.
With a proper MHEV, Ram and Dodge can benefit from the added performance.
Plug-In and Extended Range Hybrids can be added to the economy and family oriented vehicles.

No I understand that most of the public the vast majority don't care not even a little bit, if fact they don't even know the difference. As long as they can put gas in and it goes. But for towing and performance we have not seen the true impact of REV on towing so there will need to be a transition period.

The torque converter is on the clock so basically everything should be hybrid.

I am sure you are aware how deviant the assembly is of a ICE and EV drivetrain on the line is.... it basically incompatible. STLA focus on tri-power... I would say late focus on Tri-power means that there is a lot of compromises in the vehicle structure that will be mean it is compromised versus competitors that just settle in the EV and REV. It becomes too expensive to inefficient vs say Toyota and Honda.

For GOD sake they need 12month to add it to STLA mid in Brampton. GEEZ embarrassing.

So to be clear this where I draw the Line. All RWD based vehicles should have ICE/ZF Hybrid option and EV/REV option ... FRAME and JGC/Charger. Everything else should be exclusively REEV and EV. Except you do what the big guys are doing you just call it Hybrid if has an ICE engine.

This not because this something I want... It because I have looked into my crystal ball, know what I do, and where it fits in develop process. This is the vision of future that will ensure the most success of the brands I am loyal too as a consumer.

 

[patfromigh]

I think the hybrid Punch transmission strategy will be a disaster on many levels. The longevity and durability is questionable, there is more advanced technology available, and the vehicles this hybrid drive goes into have thevspace for a higher battery capacity. The Pure-tech 3 cylinder should be running Miller Cycle with a blower instead of a turbo.

I can understand marketing a 48V mild hybrid system for those who are reluctant to plug in, but there needs to be a middle option. Stellantis products such as the Fiat 500e and Grande Panda already offer full battery electric drive, take advantage of that feature by using an IC engine, e-motor combo with a reasonable amount of battery capacity for some decent electric only range. The USA has very little charging infrastructure and much of it is Level 2. The plugin vehicles sold here should be designed for that reality.

Stellantis is short sighted by offering all or barely anything choices in electric drive options for the Mid to smaller products.

 

[TripleT]

I think the hybrid Punch transmission strategy will be a disaster on many levels. The longevity and durability is questionable, there is more advanced technology available, and the vehicles this hybrid drive goes into have thevspace for a higher battery capacity. The Pure-tech 3 cylinder should be running Miller Cycle with a blower instead of a turbo.

I can understand marketing a 48V mild hybrid system for those who are reluctant to plug in, but there needs to be a middle option. Stellantis products such as the Fiat 500e and Grande Panda already offer full battery electric drive, take advantage of that feature by using an IC engine, e-motor combo with a reasonable amount of battery capacity for some decent electric only range. The USA has very little charging infrastructure and much of it is Level 2. The plugin vehicles sold here should be designed for that reality.

Stellantis is short sighted by offering all or barely anything choices in electric drive options for the Mid to smaller products.

Punch is the opposite direction. Just have the ICE run an inverter and use the EV drivetrain, Small or even no Battery.

 

[Mopar392]

I think the hybrid Punch transmission strategy will be a disaster on many levels. The longevity and durability is questionable, there is more advanced technology available, and the vehicles this hybrid drive goes into have thevspace for a higher battery capacity. The Pure-tech 3 cylinder should be running Miller Cycle with a blower instead of a turbo.

I can understand marketing a 48V mild hybrid system for those who are reluctant to plug in, but there needs to be a middle option. Stellantis products such as the Fiat 500e and Grande Panda already offer full battery electric drive, take advantage of that feature by using an IC engine, e-motor combo with a reasonable amount of battery capacity for some decent electric only range. The USA has very little charging infrastructure and much of it is Level 2. The plugin vehicles sold here should be designed for that reality.

Stellantis is short sighted by offering all or barely anything choices in electric drive options for the Mid to smaller products.

The whole Punch and Puretech production should be replaced.
For some reason, I feel these 2 are more about cost cutting and being cheap than actually delivering good products to the consumers

 

[WXman]

One thing is for certain, at least we can all TALK about this topic and share our opinions without getting banned. Those nazis over at Allpar ban anybody who doesn't align with their specific way of thinking.

 

[patfromigh]

One thing is for certain, at least we can all TALK about this topic and share our opinions without getting banned. Those nazis over at Allpar ban anybody who doesn't align with their specific way of thinking.

I feel your pain. It is something very Orwellian when we are told to disbelieve the obvious.

 

[jimboy]

Like Toyota... they don't need Pure ICE.... and Hurricane 6 would only be needed in Halo model. Outside RAM and Performance oriented Dodges .... nothing needs to be Pure ICE. From a operational perspective REV, HEV, REEV whatever you want to label it, that is the NOW.... STLA is in real risk of failure not to recognize this, The transmission as we know will be a niche offering.

I'm not sure of your nomenclature? REV REEV? They can have a single model Hurricane , I don't care, but they need more than just electric, was my point.

 

[TripleT]

I'm not sure of your nomenclature? REV REEV? They can have a single model Hurricane, I don't care, but they need more than just electric, was my point.

Because everyone is calling their ICE disconnected from the directly from the drivetrain something different. Toyota and Honda are just calling it Hybrid. The engine just replaces the battery and the Electric Drive Train. Really on difference would be the battery size and whether it has a plug. Operationally this is infinitely better as assembly of EV bias platform and ICE bias platform is nearly incompatible from an Assembly perspective.

Using the Hurricane6 in anything other than say a Haycon SRT wouldn't make sense as even in the 300-consumer tended to lean at the lower engine options on the take rate, despite what us enthusiast think.

Hurricane6 should be reserved for performance applications that a rear wheel bias. That means the 1500, Charger, Wrangler, and JGC. And even then the Torque converter should be eliminated.

All other applications should be EV drivetrain whether that is powered by an ICE engine or large battery.

 

[DodgeFL]

Hmmmm ? What do the consumers WANT ? FORD and GM V8 PU trucks sales doing great, what does that tells us? The Toyota RAV4 is the best selling SUV in it's class, the dealers can't keep the hybrid models in stock. Sport car sales are tanking as they always do when a recession hits, no mystery there.
The facts speak for themselves, there are different groups of buyers out there and no one offering of drive system fits all.
Chrysler NA leadership bet the bank on EV's and those sales have tanked, does anyone see this fact ? Ask FORD or GM how their EV PU truck sales collapsed and why they stopped production of those PU Trucks.

 

[TripleT]

Hmmmm ? What do the consumers WANT ? FORD and GM V8 PU trucks sales doing great, what does that tells us? The Toyota RAV4 is the best selling SUV in it's class, the dealers can't keep the hybrid models in stock. Sport car sales are tanking as they always do when a recession hits, no mystery there.
The facts speak for themselves, there are different groups of buyers out there and no one offering of drive system fits all.
Chrysler NA leadership bet the bank on EV's and those sales have tanked, does anyone see this fact ? Ask FORD or GM how their EV PU truck sales collapsed and why they stopped production of those PU Trucks.

V8 doesn't drive Pickup sales at GM and Ford, Volume does. The drop in RAM sales can be the loss of 200K of classic capacity not the V8 because that just changed recently. If they can make a Cheap with pentastar or old slow Hemi that would be wise.

GM and Frod are way ahead on EVs... EV in general are not down as the 4th best selling model is a EV and was best in the world.

In general it less about powertrain and just in general LACK of volume and capacity. No Charger for 18 month, No 300, No Chellenger, No Renegade, No Cherokee, No affordable pickup iin Full or Medium...... Can't blame EV cuz they just started making them, but isn't the solution for sure...

 

[AlexB]

Hmmmm ? What do the consumers WANT ? FORD and GM V8 PU trucks sales doing great, what does that tells us? The Toyota RAV4 is the best selling SUV in it's class, the dealers can't keep the hybrid models in stock. Sport car sales are tanking as they always do when a recession hits, no mystery there.
The facts speak for themselves, there are different groups of buyers out there and no one offering of drive system fits all.
Chrysler NA leadership bet the bank on EV's and those sales have tanked, does anyone see this fact ? Ask FORD or GM how their EV PU truck sales collapsed and why they stopped production of those PU Trucks.

BS
You must not look at anything, GM's main commercials are ABOUT EV Trucks & EV SUV's like Escalade IQ.