Electric Or Bust! What Is Your Opinion?

[patfromigh]

Four days later...

The BMW is all charged up. The model in question is an i4. Apparently there are many variations of the i4, this one has dual motors. Now the BMW people say it should only take 8 hours to charge from zero to 100% on a level 2 charging station. We had a technician checking the charging stations this week because of such a great discrepancy between what the BMW people claim and what this BMW car says. Another discrepancy is the 307 mile range BMW claims and when this car was 100% charged it showed 250 miles of range. That is until I started driving it. Once the system running the car figured out how cold it was the range dropped to 232 miles. As the temperature dropped even further tonight the range was at 220 miles when the overnight supervisor checked it.

For some strange reason the car has a very large turning radius. It was like trying to maneuver a Ram 2500 crew cab pickup. When I left the BMW was still sitting there, tonight I parked a Grand Cherokee 4Xe next to it and the GC was grabbed right away.

 

[IronMike68]

I am a skeptic when it comes to Full EV now I do like the idea of the Range Extended models like what the RAM Ramcharger is bringing to the table. The US is still in its infancy of moving to alternate forms of power production for passenger vehicles. We also need to look at the long term outcome of becoming full EV, not just costs but environmental impact and human health concerns, Cobalt and Lithium mining is costly and deadly especially when sourced from underdeveloped countries like Uganda/Congo who use slave labor or child labor with non existent health and safety measures to protect them or their families from the deadly side effects. Going from one bad to a possible another even more serious problem all together.

 

[swatsniperretired]

It may be feasible in 20 years, but at this time, it is not reliable or able to be sustained due to infrastructure, or lack thereof, and the overall public dissatisfaction with the product being shoved down their throats. Yes, it's the Gucci thing to be seen in your cosmopolitan areas. However, All this has been done with the die-hard enthusiast, and most repeat customers have sown a distinct disconnect from the brand from the disaster of the whole last call debacle to the force-fed EV deal to the current layoffs of the American workers. Most may consider my sector of the buying sector as knuckle draggers and such. Quite the contrary, most of us are educated above the average level and then some. And have been quite successful. but you keep thinking like Europeans and trying to use a European marketing template in the American market overall, and it will fail.

 

[TripleT]

It may be feasible in 20 years, but at this time, it is not reliable or able to be sustained due to infrastructure, or lack thereof, and the overall public dissatisfaction with the product being shoved down their throats. Yes, it's the Gucci thing to be seen in your cosmopolitan areas. However, All this has been done with the die-hard enthusiast, and most repeat customers have sown a distinct disconnect from the brand from the disaster of the whole last call debacle to the force-fed EV deal to the current layoffs of the American workers. Most may consider my sector of the buying sector as knuckle draggers and such. Quite the contrary, most of us are educated above the average level and then some. And have been quite successful. but you keep thinking like Europeans and trying to use a European marketing template in the American market overall, and it will fail.

Welcome to catch you up the OEM are only reacting to CARB mandates with Punitive fines starting MY 28' which escalate to outright bans, while the effective bans start in 28'

Current Federal administration is pilling on with similar tactics but is getting push back from the non-Carb states with KY most recently getting a injunction.

All this does fly in the face of true consumer sentiment and infrastructure realities, EU doesn't work here correct because of the distances traveled.

Regulators in CARB states have not seen any public push back and likely will not until it too late. The most likely outcome is a hard correction to the OEMs as regulatory realities and consumer demand are mismatched, they have to produce something that can be sold to half the population in the USA. The most likely outcome is shortern distances driven, retention of old models, and public transport.

 

[swatsniperretired]

Welcome to catch you up the OEM are only reacting to CARB mandates with Punitive fines starting MY 28' which escalate to outright bans, while the effective bans start in 28'

Current Federal administration is pilling on with similar tactics but is getting push back from the non-Carb states with KY most recently getting a injunction.

All this does fly in the face of true consumer sentiment and infrastructure realities, EU doesn't work here correct because of the distances traveled.

Regulators in CARB states have not seen any public push back and likely will not until it too late. The most likely outcome is a hard correction to the OEMs as regulatory realities and consumer demand are mismatched, they have to produce something that can be sold to half the population in the USA. The most likely outcome is shortern distances driven, retention of old models, and public transport.

Yeah, it's just been revealed that the CEO of Stelantis himself, not Tim K or the feds, killed the Hemi. Chevy LT-4 Zo6 zr-1 and Ford Coyote Gen4/black horse Shelby the 427 Godzilla still have super-powerful V8s, and the credits can be bought. The Hemi could have been modernized. However, that was brought up in meetings as far back as 2018. No, the European company had their opportunity to kill the American V-8 rear-drive muscle car, plain and simple. And the overall management of American-based workers is much to be desired.

 

[Mopar392]

An update HEMI, which was the rumor, would meet the current 1-2mpg improvement shown by the Hurricanes.
But the Hurricanes would still be better in emissions, which is the point people keep ignoring and the Gov is going after.
Also the power and torque curves on Turbocharged engines are usually much better than NA engines, thus making them faster and quicker.

 

[TripleT]

He is new, much discussed modern DI turbocharged V8 existed at corporate cousins, and much like the Cummin outperforms the GM and Ford rivals the new straight six outperformed the corporate cousins handedly. I am not married at to the old fascist Henry Ford's solution, I am perfectly fine with Offy and Duesenberg's solution for Horsepower. Turbo is a much better variable displacement solution the shutting off cylinders.

Ford and GM sell a crap load of EVs at a loss and Turbo engines to be able over charge for a few horrible sounding V8s. That Stalantis didn't want pay Elon Musk anymore to sell Telsas to people should have been NO surprise.

For sure Mopar can eventually sell a few bespoke V8 in the future, but the new Six is rotten fast and powerful and it will be nothing but marketing smoke and mirrors. Both Jeep and Dodge have long historys of killer straight six engines. Embrace it.

 

[swatsniperretired]

He is new, much discussed modern DI turbocharged V8 existed at corporate cousins, and much like the Cummin outperforms the GM and Ford rivals the new straight six outperformed the corporate cousins handedly. I am not married at to the old fascist Henry Ford's solution, I am perfectly fine with Offy and Duesenberg's solution for Horsepower. Turbo is a much better variable displacement solution the shutting off cylinders.

Ford and GM sell a crap load of EVs at a loss and Turbo engines to be able over charge for a few horrible sounding V8s. That Stalantis didn't want pay Elon Musk anymore to sell Telsas to people should have been NO surprise.

For sure Mopar can eventually sell a few bespoke V8 in the future, but the new Six is rotten fast and powerful and it will be nothing but marketing smoke and mirrors. Both Jeep and Dodge have long historys of killer straight six engines. Embrace it.

Well, that is your opinion. You know what they say about opinions; most auto-enthusiast Americans do not share yours. You be you. Good luck with your Alpha Romeo, which produced the Macchi 202 fighters for the Italian Air Force (the real fascist). The hemi design was used by Republic fighters, and that's how it came to be in the first place. Kind of poetic, huh? fighting fascists.

 

[TripleT]

Well, that is your opinion. You know what they say about opinions; most auto-enthusiast Americans do not share yours. You be you. Good luck with your Alpha Romeo, which produced the Macchi 202 fighters for the Italian Air Force (the real fascist). The hemi design was used by Republic fighters, and that's how it came to be in the first place. Kind of poetic, huh? fighting fascists.

Opinions are variable facts are facts. Henry Ford was a fascist antisemite that gave money to Hitler and built trucks for the Nazis through the war with force labor and didn't have too but did.. .... not debatable. not opinion. V8 was a hp power solution for vehicles that were build with shorter bonnets designed for 4 cylinder engines. They are compact.

And of course, Italian private businesses were taken over, Alfa is pre-war company, that what is fascists do.

These are no Opinions they are historic facts.

Hemi is head design not a number of cylinders. It can be used in nearly any configuration if room allows. Also, not an Opinion.

Other facts not Opinions is V configuration is more complex, inherently imbalanced, less geometric room for securing the head, well heads, less room for airflow.

Other facts turbo has less rotational inertia then unfired cylinder for managing displacement. Let alone the added weight of block and complexity of varible displacement V8 engines.

It funny to me Dodge and RAM Dominate HD trucks with some of the most powerful and durable DI straight six engines..... Never have we missed not having the fragile Junk V8 engine like from GM and Ford..... which funny enough is the EU solution.

The V8 muscle car is nothing more than marketing especially if better solutions are ignored and insisted on simply because it incumbent. But straight high HP engines aren't new pre-war and well into the 70s some the best American engines, especially in motorsports were turbo fours.

 

[Mopar392]

Well, that is your opinion. You know what they say about opinions; most auto-enthusiast Americans do not share yours. You be you. Good luck with your Alpha Romeo, which produced the Macchi 202 fighters for the Italian Air Force (the real fascist). The hemi design was used by Republic fighters, and that's how it came to be in the first place. Kind of poetic, huh? fighting fascists.

And your point is??
Gen-3 HEMI was brought back by the Germans.

 

[TripleT]

And your point is??
Gen-3 HEMI was brought back by the Germans.

 

[swatsniperretired]

And your point is??
Gen-3 HEMI was brought back by the Germans.

Just addressing Fascist issues, There was no point.

 

[Mopar392]

And you forgot that the Germans were the Nazis

 

[swatsniperretired]

My farm truck is a 225-slant 6, and it's a great truck engine for sure.

 

[swatsniperretired]

And you forgot that the Germans were the Nazis

no, not at all, and the Italians were fascists, and seeing we are fighting WW@ again, let's bring in the black dragon society Japan.

 

[TripleT]

And you forgot that the Germans were the Nazis

Now they were National Socialists, I was speaking of Henry... since he wasn't German it hard to be a National Socialist, it fit better. Italians did invent the term. The point was not throwing in with Henry as the only one with workable solutions to the HP .... Offenhauser had the better solution just production tech at the time and force of Ford wasn't behind it. But on the track he got trounced.

 

[TripleT]

no, not at all, and the Italians were fascists, and seeing we are fighting WW@ again, let's bring in the black dragon society Japan.

DIfference being Henry had a choice Alfa didn't

 

[swatsniperretired]

And you know the G-3 Hemi was r and d in Detriot, right? but built in Mexico. There are some old Dodge employees on here. Just ask; they had to get a bigger dyno when the Hellcats came to town.

 

[Mopar392]

True, but was funded under Diamler, which come to think about had better platforms and technology to share than the poor PSA

 

[TripleT]

My farm truck is a 225-slant 6, and it's a great truck engine for sure.

It was, and so the Cummin. For the same reason the new Hurricane has the potential to be a great engine also. Look into it.

The difference is production technology for cylinder lining and computational analysis has allow for a more compact design that fits in the space of a V8.

The thing is a beast, enjoy that it a beast before throwing flames.

What we consistently have is people wander in here without context without knowledge of the new solution and want to throw flames.

I loved my 392 before it was stolen, but that doesn't change that the new powerplant is superior.

BTW rumor are of a Cummin gasoline engine, as the modern DI engine have more and more in common with what they are experts at, would be a great engine for HD line.