Electric Or Bust! What Is Your Opinion?

[TripleT]

"There is nothing that embodies Freedom More than 550 hp internal combustion sports car in the hands of a young man" Great quote.

 

[KrisW]

A 550hp car in the hands of a young man usually ends up around a lamppost. Or at least it does in places that have corners.

 

[TripleT]

A 550hp car in the hands of a young man usually ends up around a lamppost. Or at least it does in places that have corners.

Mostly Mustangs

 

[Mopar392]

"There is nothing that embodies Freedom More than 550 hp internal combustion sports car in the hands of a young man" Great quote.

The greatest quote ever.

 

[patfromigh]

Irony alert. The automobiles which are most affordable to young men are off-lease compliance cars. There is no freedom under mandatory driving.

Mostly Mustangs

Mustangs are for old people trying to reclaim their lost youth. The Hemi powered rentals in our fleet have horrendous accident records, much more than our Mustangs.

 

[TripleT]

Irony alert. The automobiles which are most affordable to young men are off-lease compliance cars. There is no freedom under mandatory driving.

Mustangs are for old people trying to reclaim their lost youth. The Hemi powered rentals in our fleet have horrendous accident records, much more than our Mustangs.

It a Joke and running joke in the performance and tuning world, there are more video people wrecking Mustangs then you can count.

 

[patfromigh]

Now that the production Lucid Air has been introduced, I have to say a few things. While the performance of the Lucid seems incredible, the attraction of battery electrics for me is their supposed simplicity. That is a feature which seems to be missing in the Lucid Air with its multiple motors, transmission, liquid cooled batteries and so on. Back in the days of the GM EV-1, the BEV advocates were saying mechanics would starve because electric cars don't have all these parts which ICE vehicles have. What a joke!

It looks like all BEVs will have the liquid cooled battery packs. Remember, the big innovation during the EV-1 years was the switch from lead-acid batteries to NiMH. Now that the common battery chemistry is lithium-ion it seems battery cooling will be a fact of life.

I find EVs such as the Fiat 500e and the Centoventi concept attractive because of their single motor simplicity. The Jeep Magneto concept has some odd bits to it, but still has a single motor followed by a conventional drive train. An off the rack motor such as the ZF Cetrax would be more production feasible than the custom built unit in the Jeep, but finding a suitable transmission and transfer case combo to back up an electric motor will be challenging.

Volvo now has a single motor economy option for their EV. I wonder if Dodge will have such an "economy" option for their upcoming BE Chargers and Challengers.

My final though for this post is the winners and losers are starting to emerge in the marketplace. The Wrangler 4Xe is a clear winner. The Mini SE seems to be a favorite as well. Personally I like conventional styling and layouts and I'm glad others seem to agree. The Chevy Bolt seems to be a loser with all its recall problems. It looks like GM has squandered a lot of good will and reputation which was built during the Volt years. The same technology was used in the Spark compliance car BEV, and the Malibu full hybrid which was briefly with us. The Bolt project leaders dumped all the previous engineering and went with outside suppliers.

 

[patfromigh]

From the Stellantis Media website, I first heard about this from the Detroit News website.

Stellantis Media - Stellantis Announces $229 Million Investment in Kokomo, Indiana, Operations to Accelerate Electrification Plans

Stellantis today announced it would invest a total of $229 million in three of its Kokomo, Indiana, plants to help the company reach its goal of achieving 40% low-emission vehicle sales in the U.S. by 2030. This announcement will retain 662 jobs and comes three months after the company laid out...

media.stellantisnorthamerica.com

Stellantis Announces $229 Million Investment in Kokomo, Indiana, Operations to Accelerate Electrification Plans​

 

[patfromigh]

Here is some follow up on the Mazda MX-30 EV. It hasn't been getting good reviews. Its big drawbacks are limited range and availability. I have to wonder if the MX-30 was developed by college interns with no supervision. It retains the platform's front-drive, but the battery pack gives the vehicle a 40/60 front /rear weight distribution. The electric drive under the hood leaves a lot of open space. I suspect it will be for a future range extender. That space should have been used for more battery capacity. Didn't they see the Jeep Magneto concept?

The most glaring objection reviews raised was the limited availability, only 560 will be sold this year, all in California. Mazda did say that more EVs are coming for the 2023 model year.

EVs such as the MX-30 and Chevy Bolt are supposed to be serious production efforts, but have been criticized as being more like compliance cars. The original, Toluca built for California, Fiat 500e was a compliance car, but was given much attention and effort in its development and execution, far more than such modest sales targets would usually merit.

 

[TripleT]

Let be clear... BEV are going to be a solution. But that solution needs to evolve naturally in the market.

 

[patfromigh]

It becomes more obvious, as the days pass, that there is lemming like, headlong rush into battery electric vehicles, forced by regulators and a main stream media more interested in a narrative than the truth. Now that we are a few weeks away from calendar year 2022, that 2025 timeline is approaching very rapidly. Lemmings rush off the edge a cliff, but vehicles have collisions. What the BEV panacea runs into won't be a physical object, but something just as solid, reality itself. I can't speak for Europe or Asia , but the charging infrastructure here is nowhere near what the true believers think it is. Generating electricity has become even more challenging because the true believers have declared natural gas is a dirty source and must be banished.

So the equation doesn't balance out, flooding the market with battery electric vehicles of many different types won't work. Is battery electric the best powertrain to use for an 18 wheeler? Such a vehicle requires a long range before refueling and strong motive power. Much of the weight such a truck would carry would be its own batteries. Delivery trucks on the hand, have many stop and go trips, and travel a generally shorter distance. Once upon a time most of our public transit was electric, but very little of was powered from batteries. Power came from overhead cantenary wire. Even as the electric streetcar has disappeared, the electric trolley bus generally replaced street rail in many American cities. When many private transit agencies became wards of the state, the wires came down and electric power was replaced by diesel powered busses burning 4 to 5 gallon per Dollar fuel. Now diesel fuel is approaching $4 USD per gallon, but since almost all public transit is run on federal dictates, we can always print more money. Since we are using federal dictates funded by printing more money, the solution for high fuel cost of course is battery electric transit busses. Often times the reason for tearing down the overhead wires for the trolley bus was the extra upkeep and labor cost. The true believers ignore that many of the on route charging stations for battery electric busses require the same things in equal amounts. They also quietly admit such vehicles are much less reliable than either ICE power or drawing power from overhead wire. More busses will be required per route, but don't worry we can print more money.

It will be very interesting to see what the situation will look like once the dust settles.

 

[TripleT]

Shift to BEV will be a net increase in pollution and carbon release. Coal plants will fire back up to meet the increase demand. Air is carbon and energy negative and solar only works when the sun is out. Nuclear is a solution but good luck getting that approved. Similar situation to Hydro where there is no winning solution but zero freedom of movement and back to the cave man days.

 

[WXman]

So we're being forced to trade the whine of a supercharger and the growl and visceral feel of a V8 engine for a silent humm of electric motor? And we're not being given a choice?

Yeah, that sounds like freedom and liberty to me.

 

[Ron E]

First, it is painfully obvious that our politicians aren't well versed on the subject of cars and trucks. I seriously doubt 5% of them are capable of changing their own oil. If you or I face a major decision on a subject of which we know little about, we seek experts for guidance. From all sides. This is especially true when it involves our own money. A private business owner doesn't just dive blindly into a new and expensive way of doing things without doing lots of research to insure it is a sensible risk. We are aware our decisions have consequences. Our political elite aren't bothered by such distractions. And that is the biggest problem in Washington DC.
I read about Buttigieg being questioned on our power grid being incapable of providing the requirements of the big switch to electric cars. His response was "Well, we need to upgrade the grid." It is disturbing when the Transportation Secretary gives you the same answer as your 3rd grader.
I'd bet he can't change his oil either.

 

[TripleT]

Welp, Honda says only BEV in USA by 2040.... So the Japanese appliance maker has rang in.

 

[patfromigh]

I guess the GM EV push is having major teething problems. The Chevrolet Vega and Oldsmobile diesel V8 had problems back in the day. The Hummer BEV is having a bad start. Brick isn't just some character from Cat on a Hot Tin Roof .

 

[TripleT]

ahhhhhh if you think Mopars are not also going to have teething problems???? GM is wise to push through them before they are over half of what is allowed to be sold.

 

[patfromigh]

As a lifetime Mopar owner who has learned the hard way to never buy a first year Chrysler product, I expect them to also have problems. I am holding up GM for extra ridicule because they are repeating history. There was a very reliable four cylinder in production from the old Chevy II and GM went ahead with that bag of tricks under the hood of the Chevy Vega. GM was also on the way with the Volt technology. There had a full hybrid Malibu, two generations of the range extended Volt, and also a pure battery electric in there compliance cars. All that was deep sixed for what they have now.

The problem with this rapid, authoritarian battery electric push by the political elite is that it flies in the face of practical and logistical considerations. The public is aware they are being forced into something half baked. The products associated with this EV push will suffer accordingly. The historical mainstream media outlets are attempting to hide and distort the truth about the electrical grid problems, the lack of charging infrastructure, child labor used to extract battery materials, and the questionable reliability of the vehicles themselves. Out there in Memeland it's a different story.

 

[TripleT]

As a lifetime Mopar owner who has learned the hard way to never buy a first year Chrysler product, I expect them to also have problems. I am holding up GM for extra ridicule because they are repeating history. There was a very reliable four cylinder in production from the old Chevy II and GM went ahead with that bag of tricks under the hood of the Chevy Vega. GM was also on the way with the Volt technology. There had a full hybrid Malibu, two generations of the range extended Volt, and also a pure battery electric in there compliance cars. All that was deep sixed for what they have now.

The problem with this rapid, authoritarian battery electric push by the political elite is that it flies in the face of practical and logistical considerations. The public is aware they are being forced into something half baked. The products associated with this EV push will suffer accordingly. The historical mainstream media outlets are attempting to hide and distort the truth about the electrical grid problems, the lack of charging infrastructure, child labor used to extract battery materials, and the questionable reliability of the vehicles themselves. Out there in Memeland it's a different story.

Is the public aware? Because they keep voting that Authoritarians into office in those states. Reality is not many folks can afford a new car and 2035 seems far off to Joe public. In the automotive world it is just around the corner when planning capacity and developing the models. Populated states with high levels of riders are dictating to the rest of the country the solutions.

Silicon batteries and modern Nuclear are the only viable ways for this whole thing to work out, but all us practical people want to somehow work out.

The truth is they may, well some are planning this with the intent to kill private transport. "You will own nothing, and you will love it." The first in best way to control as population is through the food supply, but close to top it to control people ability for free movement.

For pure survival the Management of these countries are doing their best to comply and basically stay in business.

 

[patfromigh]

I just saw a Youtube video which shows LG Chem has 15% of the automobile battery market, but is involved with 90% of the recalls. I hope someone in Auburn Hills is paying attention.

Edit: I tried to paste the link into this post on my Chromebook, but it didn't work. This is using my Mac. Please note I don't endorse this channel's battery electrics as a panacea philosophy. This though is very revealing.