Dodge Needs A More Affordable Entry-Level Performance Vehicle

In the ever-evolving landscape of the automotive industry, Dodge stands as an emblem of American muscle and performance. Yet, amidst its illustrious history, a glaring gap has emerged in its lineup – the absence of an affordable performance vehicle priced under $35,000. As competitors surge ahead with enticing options, Dodge finds itself at a crossroads, … (read full article...)

 

[redriderbob]

I think if they are wanting to drive traffic with Value. and I have said for years the Argen or Tipo from Turkey is about the only option. I for darn sake don't want Mexican capacity used to make these if they are going to produce a SUSW car other than the Compass it #$#$ing well better be the Rampage.

Tipo and Tipo Cross would fill the role well for a 100.

It would have been a great entry-level vehicle here. The Tipo as a Neon would have sold better than any of the Fiat-branded vehicles.

 

[redriderbob]

Mavricks aren't cheap or easy to get. I would admit the SUSW is a nicer platform then the Escape, Bronco sport, and Maverick but not by much.

no, but the Rampage is A LOT more luxurious than a Maverick. Also the Rampage comes standard with AWD (4x4), they would have to make a FWD version here to be competitive with the Mavericks price point. But I think the Rampage would solve 70% of the need for a small pickup in the brand's lineup even if it was at the Ranger's price level.

 

[Mike201]

They need a compact Durango that is has cargo room that can compete with Honda CRV or Rv4. Hornets is too small. It should also start at a more affordable price

I agree! A true replacement for the Journey (size wise), but a step up.

 

[cgseller]

and it will fail. They need new compact "non-electrified" products. Small fuel efficient ICE engines in small and midsize vehicles will win. The electric thrust forward is dying at an alarming rate, simply do to affordability and convenience

Yes, those two factors are multipliers of each other - convenience and affordability - without those two you will get early adopters, enthusiasts, and wealthily. After those , the growth rate will rapidly slow down until one of those two is addressed.
Norway has addressed some of these issues and is in a very different spot.


ref: https://www.reuters.com/business/au...ke-petrol-cars-norway-by-end-2024-2024-04-02/
(side note - using fossil profits to drive next source of sustainability is long term thinking)

 

[Mike201]

It would have been a great entry-level vehicle here. The Tipo as a Neon would have sold better than any of the Fiat-branded vehicles.

View attachment 9513

How true!!!!!

 

[Mike201]

no, but the Rampage is A LOT more luxurious than a Maverick. Also the Rampage comes standard with AWD (4x4), they would have to make a FWD version here to be competitive with the Mavericks price point. But I think the Rampage would solve 70% of the need for a small pickup in the brand's lineup even if it was at the Ranger's price level.

View attachment 9514

Ok, build it, it will sell!!! Lossing the Classic Ram next year leaves only one Ram in the barn. Both Chevy and Ford have more than one truck, one large Pick up and one small/midsize. The Rampage will be competitive and put sales in the Ram column. Also get people in the show room. You never know what that may generate.

 

[AlexB]

and it will fail. They need new compact "non-electrified" products. Small fuel efficient ICE engines in small and midsize vehicles will win. The electric thrust forward is dying at an alarming rate, simply do to affordability and convenience

"
Now let's finish up by turning our attention to two topics that I'm personally very excited about. The first is a concrete example of some of these significant product portfolio upgrades featuring the fully renewed Ram line being put in place over the next 12 months. Our updated core 2025 Ram 1500 already hitting the market in the first half of ‘24, features a new turbocharged inline six powertrain, the hurricane engine offers 25% more power and torque than the outgoing V8, while enhancing efficiency to comply with US emission regulations. And later this year, we'll start producing the Ram Rev, a top tier BEV version built on the new Stellantis frame platform, which is ready to provide new performance benchmarks, especially when it comes to range within the BEV truck segment.

Following closely in 2025, the RAM Charger, a RAM extender electric vehicle with all the special performance characteristics of a BEV, plus a 700-mile range addressing long-distance customer needs and eliminating the challenges of low charging density areas. With these innovations, we're set to lead the light-duty pickup segment, offering the most advanced ice powertrain, a top-performing BEV and the first range extender electric vehicle, ensuring strong market competitiveness and pricing power. And I'd like to take a moment to provide you with some details about our upcoming June 13th Stellantis Investor Day to be held here in Auburn Hills, Michigan with simultaneous virtual participation facilitated via webcast. Carlos, myself, and group of our most prominent commercial and brand leaders will outline developments across our most important regions and functions.

We want to help you better understand how we see the industry evolving, how we're leveraging standout technology, our leading operational discipline, and other competitive advantages that distinguish ourselves further, and how we're building a powerful and productive capital discipline that help us maintain and maximize sustainable returns. For those of you who are able to attend in person, you'll get the chance to engage directly with many of our most senior leaders and experience many of our exciting and new upcoming product portfolio launches before they hit the market. "

Stellantis N.V. (NYSE:STLA) Q1 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

Stellantis N.V. (NYSE:STLA) Q1 2024 Earnings Call Transcript April 30, 2024 Stellantis N.V. isn’t one of the 30 most popular stocks among hedge funds at the end of the third quarter (see the details here). Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Stellantis First Quarter 2024 Shipments and...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[ipa0628]

I am so sick of hearing about margin. Right now they are getting zero margin on small and mid sized vehicles because they have nothing to sell. The Hornet is an obvious overpriced failure. They are driving customers to other brands and many may never return.

 

[vbondjr1]

I present a different approach to an entry level performance vehicle (or entry level performance vehicles). Dodge currently has an amazing platform coming with the STLA:Large platform and the Charger is styled to be a big hit. It goes without saying that the next-gen Durango will more than likely be on this platform as will an compact pickup truck to battle the Ranger and the Colorado (although it won't be a body-on-frame truck like those so more than likely it will compete closer to the Honda Ridgeline just with way more power). What would make more sense (to me) instead of coming out with a whole new vehicle on another platform, take the Charger, Durango and Dakota/Rampage and make GLH packages on them that are based off of a hybrid 2.0L 4Xe turbo powertrain. that powertrain in the Jeeps makes 375hp/470lb-ft of torque but not really geared or tuned for performance, even though it performs decently in an off road vehicle. Even to take that powertrain and put a 3:07 or better gear ratio behind it should give us a car with better than Hemi performance right off the bat while also making it more powerful than it's closest competitor, the Mustang Ecoboost with the 2.3L Turbo. Given the fact that this in an AWD vehicle with the selectable mode to turn it to RWD, it already offers more than the Mustang would and it'd be a hybrid with a zero-emissions drive mode so the EPA shouldn't whine too much about it. Now with that being said, Dodge & Direct Connections could offer packages and options for this right from the dealership (available at purchase) for upgraded performance. Upgrades including Garrett turbo packages that are 50-state legal, exhaust system options from companies like A.W.E, Suspension options, brake options and tunes that would include tuning for the Gen-4 8-speed hybrid transmission to unlock levels of power along with changing shift points and adjusting power management of the electric hybrid system along with offering some fuel management upgrades like the Demon 170. GLH cars could also come with other factory options available at purchase such as hood options, aero packages, spoilers, wheels, lighting upgrades (similar to how the Camaro used to offer the optional black housing LED taillamps) graphics options, Recaro seat options, steering wheel options (with the option for an illuminated GLH steering wheel) Kicker stereo packages, and several other things. While having all of these options will ultimately raise the price, the base car would come in at under 30-grand and still offer impressive performance that would actually put the car more along the lines of a first gen 6.1L SRT vehicle, which isn't bad at all

 

[BWS1]

Survey here,,, If you had limited Capacity in resources and you could.

1. Introduce a Value "Performace" mid-size sedan, at what we know is nearly zero of negative margin.

2. Or pay for the Rampage NA implementation with the additional 4xe powertrain from the Tonale, Hornet, and EU Compass?

If your answer is 1. please put together for me plausible cash flow, ROI, and Implementation strategy that can even get past the first Development Gate. Without mentioning an EU product or EV product....

Option two please . My question is why isn’t this product already hitting dealer lots? They’re gonna load around until the little pickup market is saturated and dying before we see it.

 

[Fljay73]

I own a 2024 Dodge Hornet GT AWD. It's about $10k cheaper than the Alfa Romeo Tonale with the same powertrain. I am very happy with it. It did need a new dome light wiring harness & software update (under warranty).

 

[TripleT]

I own a 2024 Dodge Hornet GT AWD. It's about $10k cheaper than the Alfa Romeo Tonale with the same powertrain. I am very happy with it. It did need a new dome light wiring harness & software update (under warranty).

Well, the Tonale is not sold with the same Powertrain in as the GT. The Sprint is cheapest model and still has the PHEV 1.3T not the 2.0. I cross shopped both the RT and Tonale..... Equally equipped I got the about the same price for the Tonale.. Not considering the expensive paint once the deal was done. So that 10K with same powertrain is impossible.

 

[TripleT]

Real solution is take the Charger, Install the 2.0T... add ZF and just enough battery for 13 seconds. Remove everything that adds cost or weight. Barebones performance.

 

[patfromigh]

A bit of perspective here. Twenty-five years ago Ford introduced their Taurus SHO performance sedan. At the time many were amazed at the performance offered by the package. The engine was a 220 hp 3-liter DOHC V6 built by Yamaha and it was mated to a five-speed manual transmission. C&D tested one, and they recorded 15.1 seconds @ 95 mph in the quarter mile. That was good for that time period. The base price of the SHO for the 1990 model year was $21,500. The base price of a regular Taurus was around $13,000 while a six cylinder was a $700 option. The SHO six was only available on the SHO model. The base Taurus was priced competitively with other domestic sedans of the same class.

The 2025 Toyota Camry has 225 hp standard and weighs within 100 lbs. of the Taurus SHO. The base price of the Camry is under $30,000 and the Camry has a 45-50 mpg rating. The only drivetrain option is a rear e-axle.

The Camry sets the mass market sedan standard, and is now a hybrid only model. If someone wants to market a sedan, that is how high the bar is set.

 

[TripleT]

Lets not forget the Toyota Frog walked the President a Georgetown out of plant for not foreseeing the collapse of the sedan market and not having it ready to produce CUVs down the same line. Honda at the same time made more Civics then humanly possible at Shelbyville in order to minimize the per car loss for producing them at all. Marysville something similar.

Mopar could swap products and with their manufacturing cost structure would take a blood bath producing Camry, Civic, or Accords. That is the fiscal reality.

Now where is the margin to do a ROI? I get we want products but how do you pay for it on a category where the best in the world barely makes a what a dixie cup makes per unit?

 

[patfromigh]

Here is a preview of the next Dodge Journey. I clipped this from a photo just posted this morning on the Stellantis website. It will be affordable.

 

[TripleT]

Yeah this would work

 

[patfromigh]

Yeah this would work

This is where I clipped my photo from. The news article is hot of the press this morning (afternoon in Europe) on the Stellantis Media website. I predict such affordability will be coming here.

Leapmotor International Begins Operations to Expand Global Electric Vehicle Sales Starting September 2024 in Nine European Countries, Followed by Other Key Growth Regions

Leapmotor International, a 51/49 Stellantis-led company between Stellantis and Leapmotor, is dedicated to redefining electric vehicles through cutt

www.stellantis.com

 

[patfromigh]

Leapmotor doesn't produce the IC engine for their extended range EV models. It is purchased from an outside vendor who also supplies the same engine to other Chinese EV companies. An engine manufactured here could be substituted.

I already posted my business case for building a sedan here based on the sedan in the above post here...

Unfulfilled Promise: Chrysler's 2009 200C EV Concept

As Chrysler navigates its course toward an all-electric future, a reflective glance at the 2009 Chrysler 200C EV Concept reveals a compelling vision unfulfilled—a design masterpiece poised to redefine the brand’s trajectory in the realm of electric mobility. Exterior Brilliance: A Visionary...

moparinsiders.com

(It is post #9 in the thread.)

Such a sedan would be a premium trim above the entry level price point with a higher margin. The exterior and interior styling must come from Auburn Hills. The IC engine must be domestic, but the customers won't care where the electric motors come from.

I will start a thread later on my entry level vehicle proposal later.

 

[TripleT]

I don't think the Cost structure work even if Leap boxed them up to assemble here, I think it would need to be imported has whole vehicles. And NO way that decision could be made before November. As one of the Candidate has a protectionism trade stance, while the other never did remove the tariffs as he promised.