Chrysler is here to stay

[TripleT]

There are people who associates cheap cars with low quality.

What Chrysler needs is to be renovated.

For example, look at Mazda.
They are starting making name for themselves, with good packaged, well designed and good quality cars, yet it’s priced in the middle spectrum of its target market.

Japanese and Korean know how to make sedans hence they are still occupying the compact and mid size sedan segments.

I’m not saying Chrysler should enter a segment it can’t win, but what I’m saying the segment is still here.

As @Archknight said, use Jeep FWD crossovers as a start. Keep Fiat’s version in the market where Fiat is the most recognizable such as Europe and South America , but use Chrysler for markets such as NA and Middle East.

Japanese were and still in absolute panic to devest from the sedan capacity. So badly that people were walked out the door with there personal items in a box. But dependency meant that it had to be a transition. They didn’t have the luxury the FCA had to transition quickly.

please don’t associate that to something done well, at the top level people were mad beyond description that the fall of the sedans wasn’t foreseen.

these comparisons to single brand or limited brand companies is also false.

FCA and no this awkward named company have the luxury or burden to assign a product class to the brand that will demand the most margin.

Reality is Chrysler will never be a Mazda or Toyota or even Ford. it’s history is a few models that were Appointment engineered models of the volume brands

it best hope is to be Buick or the BEV Tech niche of the company in NA.

 

[patfromigh]

Anyone advocating for the return of sedans is advocating for massive loss of money, The capacity still is in excess of the demand. Not only in the USA but world wide. You all use your Google machines to help to monitor treads. 3 years behind what is planned. Push for efficiency doesn’t require a lose of passenger and cargo efficiency. If one loves the company it would not advocate for products people are unwilling to buy at margin. Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota, Mazda and now the EU company’s are all working to diminish their sedan capacity as quickly as possible. That the market hasn’t been completely abandoned doesn’t mean the tread has reversed. If anything it is expanding. Again it is a false assumption the Efficiency requires a shape the is passenger compromised . BTW any claim that those abandoning the market was product related is false, it was entirely related to margin. Even with class leading features would still lose money, even going the opposite Mitsubishi lean, there was no margin, even Asian in a box no money. The it came down to using capacity at a lose, or at great margin. It is irresponsible to do anything else.

At this point I will have to eat some crow in regards to what I said about the availability of capacity in Toluca. I believe Toluca is down to just the Jeep Compass as its only product. The Fiat 500 production was ended there in 2019. The Fiat 500 and the new Fiat Strada/Ram 700 are based on the Fiat mini platform. I don't know if the 500 and Strada use the same carriers, but the Uno, Mobi and Strada share production facilities in Brazil. With the new Strada/700 being a huge success it would make more sense to expand production of that model in Toluca than a Chrysler model for the US. This is especially true if the Fiat 500 production line is still in place. While the successful Latin American Fiat products are small, few of them could be classified as sedans. The trend is definitely towards utility.

I think there is a lesson to be learned from the Toyota Prius. The Prius was once the darling of the in-crowd, with its futuristic looks and advanced technology. But now it seems to be mostly a fad. Hybrids aren't a fad, because as the Prius fades, people purchase conventionally styled Toyotas with the same hybrid system. The RAV4 hybrid proves this. Ford's hybrid sedans have faded away as hybrid crossovers take over at that company. The early adapters bought the Prius and moved on to Teslas. Tesla is now considered cool and trendy, but I suspect people will move on to something more practical. Battery electrics will be here to stay, but they don't have to be only swoopy sedans.

 

[Archknight]

At this point I will have to eat some crow in regards to what I said about the availability of capacity in Toluca. I believe Toluca is down to just the Jeep Compass as its only product. The Fiat 500 production was ended there in 2019. The Fiat 500 and the new Fiat Strada/Ram 700 are based on the Fiat mini platform. I don't know if the 500 and Strada use the same carriers, but the Uno, Mobi and Strada share production facilities in Brazil. With the new Strada/700 being a huge success it would make more sense to expand production of that model in Toluca than a Chrysler model for the US. This is especially true if the Fiat 500 production line is still in place. While the successful Latin American Fiat products are small, few of them could be classified as sedans. The trend is definitely towards utility.

I think there is a lesson to be learned from the Toyota Prius. The Prius was once the darling of the in-crowd, with its futuristic looks and advanced technology. But now it seems to be mostly a fad. Hybrids aren't a fad, because as the Prius fades, people purchase conventionally styled Toyotas with the same hybrid system. The RAV4 hybrid proves this. Ford's hybrid sedans have faded away as hybrid crossovers take over at that company. The early adapters bought the Prius and moved on to Teslas. Tesla is now considered cool and trendy, but I suspect people will move on to something more practical. Battery electrics will be here to stay, but they don't have to be only swoopy sedans.

Well said. That's exactly what I was eluding to as Chrysler becoming the hybrid/electric brand for North America. Peugeot/Citroen/DS models can easily be reskinned for the US market, but still maintain versatility and uniqueness.

 

[redriderbob]

Chrysler is working on two new projects as far as I know. A D-SUV for China and a new Airflow vehicle for North America according to my sources.

 

[Archknight]

Chrysler is working on two new projects as far as I know. A D-SUV for China and a new Airflow vehicle for North America according to my sources.

View attachment 4008

I was in love with the lines of this thing, so hopefully they go all out. I thought they put this on hold for the US or is this the on again off again model we keep hearing about?

 

[redriderbob]

I was in love with the lines of this thing, so hopefully they go all out. I thought they put this on hold for the US or is this the on again off again model we keep hearing about?

 

[Deckard Cain]

I don't know much about that concept... Is that supposed to be a midsize sedan? A full-size one?
Chrysler is available in China? I didn't know that.

 

[TripleT]

How many here have driven or ridden in a PSA car? Easily reskinned for North America.... Hmmmmm I don't think so. From my inter-continental experience it take quite a bit to adjust them to NA tastes. Chinese on the other hand seem to favor NA appointed cars.

 

[patfromigh]

How many here have driven or ridden in a PSA car? Easily reskinned for North America.... Hmmmmm I don't think so. From my inter-continental experience it take quite a bit to adjust them to NA tastes. Chinese on the other hand seem to favor NA appointed cars.

I'll assume you mean in recent decades. My friend had a Peugeot 505 back in the day. This is just my own preferences, based only on seeing photos on the net, I think the French interiors are way over styled.

Since I'm old enough to remember the 505, I'm also old enough to remember those products from the AMC-Renault era. While some of those cars showed how to adapt and build French vehicles in America, the hard part was selling them here. The direct imports like the Renault 5 (Le Car) and the midsize (Medallion?) flopped.

The lesson here is, it takes mega resources to introduce a new vehicle and that doesn't guarantee success. The odd thing is that Jeep sales during those early 1980s were poor as well. The Jeep SUVS were too big and thirsty following that second fuel price spike. AMC designers weren't paying attention to what the other companies were doing when they came up with the downsized Cherokee. They got it all "wrong" and put four doors on it. SUVs were supposed to have two doors. That's what people were buying up to that point. The rest, as they say, is history.

(Yes, I know the 1984 Cherokee was available as a two door as well. Try buying a small two door SUV/CUV today.)

 

[redriderbob]

I don't know much about that concept... Is that supposed to be a midsize sedan? A full-size one?
Chrysler is available in China? I didn't know that.

They were a while back... but since Jeep hasn't performed like they thought, I think they are giving Chrysler a second shot with Alfa Romeo covering the premium segment. Jeep will still be there as well.

 

[redriderbob]

Back from 2012

 

[Mopar392]

Back from 2012

300 needs to bring back the Rolls Royce / Bentley styling .

 

[TripleT]

300 needs to bring back the Rolls Royce / Bentley styling .

And be taller with a Hatch

 

[cgseller]

Well said. That's exactly what I was eluding to as Chrysler becoming the hybrid/electric brand for North America. Peugeot/Citroen/DS models can easily be reskinned for the US market, but still maintain versatility and uniqueness.

Yes, the designs for many of the PSA models fit better to NA culture than many of the FIAT models did. The 500 was just too 'clown-car' for most American tastes. It was not niche branded like the Prowler or even the PT Cruiser (which was an accidental success) to classify a higher price point or to be a loss leader vehicle. The 500X is an interestingly sized and capable vehicle. the interior screams niche and the exterior is not NA friendly. I'm sure someone could take the 500X and make it even have the 200 or new Pacifica styling cues and it could turn into a different acceptance in NA.

 

[TripleT]

I don't think Clown car is a appropriate characteristic. It is a A-Segment vehicle which is a niche size in the USA. Even GM with it massive dealer network could sell very many.

The real key is availability, and network size.

My daughter love theirs and was voted best car in her class.

But if one doesn't think PSA models are quirky one hasn't driven them. They are for sure.

 

[redriderbob]

300 needs to bring back the Rolls Royce / Bentley styling .

 

[redriderbob]

While the car market may be small in the North American market now. If Chrysler would have brought the 200C Concept styling to the Giulia's "Giorgio" architecture and offer an PHEV powertrain it would easily out-sold the Giulia here. Midsize RWD-based sedan...

 

[Tony K]

I get where you're coming from, because according to all automakers gasoline models will no longer be available by 2030-2035. Let's be realistic about this, Americans especially oil and gas companies will fight to keep their industries alive, while customers will not likely bend to a expensive new technology so easily. Once gas prices rise people will do the usual and start ditching SUVs again.

No. They will move to smaller crossovers perhaps, or PHEV versions of the SUVs they currently own, or some combination, but they're not going back to sedans in the sense of what became the "family car" for small nuclear families since WW2 - the three box sedan. The crossover and SUV is essentially a recreation of the classic pre-war family car, which was essentially a station/estate wagon, in some cases taller, and typically shorter, owing to small families.

How many here have driven or ridden in a PSA car? Easily reskinned for North America.... Hmmmmm I don't think so. From my inter-continental experience it take quite a bit to adjust them to NA tastes. Chinese on the other hand seem to favor NA appointed cars.

Driven a P2008 and a C3. The C3 was definitely quirky, the P2008 less so, probably because it had a longer wheelbase and more typical cabin configuration, in terms of the A pillar's location WRT the driver. The way the A Pillar in the C3 lays kinda gives you a feeling you are in a fishbowl, for lack of a better explanation. I had driven a Renault back when we were having discussions with them. I think technically, Renault was preferred, but we kinda walked into that dumpster fire.

Yes, the designs for many of the PSA models fit better to NA culture than many of the FIAT models did. The 500 was just too 'clown-car' for most American tastes. It was not niche branded like the Prowler or even the PT Cruiser (which was an accidental success) to classify a higher price point or to be a loss leader vehicle. The 500X is an interestingly sized and capable vehicle. the interior screams niche and the exterior is not NA friendly. I'm sure someone could take the 500X and make it even have the 200 or new Pacifica styling cues and it could turn into a different acceptance in NA.

PT Cruiser wasn't an "accidental success" I think. Plymouth took advantage of rules for trucks, and I think the notoriety of the Prowler aesthetic, that made the PT Cruiser a commercial success initially.

 

[Bili]

While the car market may be small in the North American market now. If Chrysler would have brought the 200C Concept styling to the Giulia's "Giorgio" architecture and offer an PHEV powertrain it would easily out-sold the Giulia here. Midsize RWD-based sedan...

If we look at the numbers and timing and price level... It's delusional.

Just look at Cadillac ATS sales. It had barely eclipsed Giulia in terms of US sales. And arguably Cadillac is the most popular American premium brand. Premium as in European meaning. It equals luxury in US.

I would like to hear @TripleT on this subject.

 

[Deckard Cain]

While the car market may be small in the North American market now. If Chrysler would have brought the 200C Concept styling to the Giulia's "Giorgio" architecture and offer an PHEV powertrain it would easily out-sold the Giulia here. Midsize RWD-based sedan...

Would it have commanded the price premium that would justify that investment? Especially because PHEVs were more expensive to develop then...
I think they should've launched a midsize Doge sedan one or two years after the Giulia. They didn't do it.

And as Bili say, I am very skeptical about the upside potential of Chrysler. It does not have the perception of a premium brand in the US market. It just doesn't.
And other american premium brands face many challenges into growing their sales numbers and are constantly lambasted as failures.
Cadillac, Lincoln and Buick are always criticized as failures. I don't think that Chrysler would fare better than them, and to me this shows the limited market there is for another american luxury/premium brand.

Could they make Chrysler a Chevy and Ford competitor? Maybe... But I think Dodge has more chances of success in that regard.
Maybe they should just try to build the Apple car instead.