Alfa Romeo Giulietta and EMP-2 platform.

[TripleT]

I think the New Jeep should be call Cimarron and the Alfa Called Catera ........ embrace mediocrity badge engineering.

 

[TripleT]

Wait I am sorry.... we should let Alfa have its history intact Dauphine

I should be more sensitive to the brands history and French-Italian partnerships

 

[patfromigh]

Whatever happened to that other Cadillac badge engineering exercise, the one which happened around the time of the Catera. I think it was called the Escalade. We won't see any Alfa models to compete against the Escalade because Fiat took over Alfa Romeo's truck and bus operations, rolling it into IVECO.

 

[TripleT]

I know the Jeep can be called Aspen and the Alfa Arna .......

 

[TripleT]

You all better jump on the Stallantis website.... They show the new Sub-A Micro Jeep running down test assembly line at the new Mack Assembly plant. Interesting material use. High strength natural polymer composite.

 

[Bili]

Wait I am sorry.... we should let Alfa have its history intact Dauphine

I should be more sensitive to the brands history and French-Italian partnerships

Thankfully it didn't have Alfa's badge on it although on the side there was Alfa Romeo.

The worst Alfa Romeo badged car? For sure it was a Nissan, ehm, Alfa Romeo Arna.

 

[TripleT]

Thankfully it didn't have Alfa's badge on it although on the side there was Alfa Romeo.

The worst Alfa Romeo badged car? For sure it was a Nissan, ehm, Alfa Romeo Arna.

but that was French-Italian... but both are for sure instructional in the dangers of hasty badge engineering

 

[AlexB]

Thankfully it didn't have Alfa's badge on it although on the side there was Alfa Romeo.

The worst Alfa Romeo badged car? For sure it was a Nissan, ehm, Alfa Romeo Arna.

Speaking of Nissan: Concern that Tavares has too much ''Professor Ghosn''s Le Cost killing'' in him? Seems to be a big part of concern in this thread.

 

[Deckard Cain]

But yes, the EMP2 platform is unworthy and they can't make a decent Giulietta that can compete with the germans out of it. /s

 

[Deckard Cain]

I didn't say that I don't want EMP2 based Giulietta. I said that EMP2 should need some tweaks for Alfa Romeo. It's not suitable in this form.

IMO, that is more than obvious. I don't want a re-badge. I want Alfa engineers using EMP-2 and making something fun, and worthy. And considering km77 tests I doubt the Tonale could be better dynamically.

 

[Bili]

Elk test not a dynamic test.

Actually cars set-up for better handling i.e. with stiffer suspension will suffer more.

In the first place this is a ESP test. How is it calibrated.

 

[Bili]

Speaking of Nissan: Concern that Tavares has too much ''Professor Ghosn''s Le Cost killing'' in him? Seems to be a big part of concern in this thread.

PSA is at the forefront of engineering cost cut. I can say as much.

Tavares was behind the Alpine brand at Renault Group.

 

[Tony K]

Whatever happened to that other Cadillac badge engineering exercise, the one which happened around the time of the Catera. I think it was called the Escalade. We won't see any Alfa models to compete against the Escalade because Fiat took over Alfa Romeo's truck and bus operations, rolling it into IVECO.

I want an IVECO Quotidiano Spyder (small convertible lifestyle pickup on a Daily platform.

 

[Deckard Cain]

Let's start this with one video:

So they have 2.0 330 HP. They just need to fit it into a platform which has transversely oriented engine. Suitable transmission would be harder to find. But Stellantis is now a quite big company. They should come out with something.

And the engine I've mentioned is not a performance version so they can puh it a little bit of they want.

As I said Alfa doesn't need to have the most powerful engine in the class. It should be reasonably powerful but handling and drive feeling should be top notch. That's something which was spot on for 156 and 147 generation.
PHEV would not give nimble handling or good felling. There are other PSA brands which could and should utilize PHEV tech for performance versions.

Giulietta? At the time it was benchmarked against Golf Mk VI. Golf GTI to be precise. That't a Golf version which is oriented for handling. R is not handling oriented, not as GTI.

156 against E46? 156 beat it at ETCC. Production based racing. 156 had excellent bones for FWD based car. No doubt about it.

Alfa is and must be about handling, about driving experience, about driver at the center.

[/QUOTE]
So what you are saying is that power is not important, but handling is? Having interior space is not important because premium C-segment also isn't an important parameter.
Hence, give EMP2 platform to Alfa engineers and let them tune it to make it handling oriented. If you don't think a Q version is essential what's the problem again?

156 had excellent bones, sure (it's one of my favourite cars for a reason). Tell me about the road version (not one that participated in competitions) that was competitive with the M3 that anyone could go inside a dealer and acquire. There wasn't any. The GTA max power was 250hp. The M3 was 340hp. So tell me again about competitiveness about Alfa versus germans?
And don't gloss over the pig that was the 159. A beautiful pig with lipstick (and one of my favourite Alfas as well) but a pig nonetheless.

The 147 proves my point. They can do an EMP2 Giulietta with great handling, even if it doesn't go all the way in terms of power to compete with the germans. Hell, the DS4 tops at 224hp. That's more than enough for a really fun Giulietta. To me the PHEV is essential, but whatever.

Giulia and Stelvio as halo models?

[/QUOTE]
The Q versions are not halo models??

Premium C-segment?

As I've said sales are much more complicated. Retail vs fleet. Home market, how big it is, do they buy domestic or foreign cars. To be sincere I must say that a lot of this is playing against Alfa Romeo. Their goal from the start were retail sales. Now they've got new CEO who was the main responsible for PSA retail sales. The guy who had brought PSA to the record breaking EBIT margins because of his retail sales success. FYI, PSA has lower margin for fleet sales than FCA. At least it was like that in 2018 or first half od 2019. Manley once mentioned it.

Most premium C-segment cars sold in Portugal are fleet sales. Not sure how it is in other countries. Mostly A-Class and 1-Series. Mercedes is one of the most sold brands in Portugal because of their fleet sales. They sell almost as much as Renault (the perennial leader).

 

[TripleT]

Is Mercedes a multi-branded structure anymore? Asking for a friend

 

[Bili]

@Deckard Cain

Can we put this thread under a false alarm? I mean with sharing officially starting in 2024 it would mean that Alfa will not get this EMP2 v3 platform but the may get eVMP. At least I'm reading it that way.

 

[TripleT]

that means the 24 month schedule for re-engineering that I estimate.

 

[Bili]

that means the 24 month schedule for re-engineering that I estimate.

Small CUVs are ON. On PSA CMP. But that project is entry level and not part of Stellantis premium pole story.

It seems that the whole PSA eVMP project was pushed back by one year. That's what I got.

 

[TripleT]

We are back to talking about Carrier(platform) for size category with optimization for application. So whos model is this?