Stellantis Struggles To Connect With Customers

Stellantis Struggles To Connect With Customers​

Falling Scores Show A Big Disconnect​

For years, Stellantis has been trying to balance tradition with the future. But according to the latest American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI) survey, the company’s North American brands are falling flat with its customers.

Stellantis Struggles To Connect With Customers

Explore why Stellantis struggles to connect with customers as survey results reveal poor satisfaction across its brands.

moparinsiders.com

 

[Foncool]

Dodge was great right up until Fiat got involved.

Do you mean right up to the bankruptcy when the Obama administration literally begged FIAT to take over Chrysler when no other manufacturer would go anywhere near it?

 

[Jeeper1961]

Do you mean right up to the bankruptcy when the Obama administration literally begged FIAT to take over Chrysler when no other manufacturer would go anywhere near it?

Chrysler was already in talks to sell a minority stake to Fiat in order to survive the financial crisis of 2008. The Obama Administration stepped in and made it worse, in my opinion. That allowed for the complete Fiat takeover of Chrysler in 2011. Would Chrysler have survived without Fiat gaining a majority stake? I'd like to think so. The current administration would have tried a lot of options to keep the company in American hands. At the time, the Obama administration said that Fiat had expertise in making small, efficient cars that Chrysler did not possess. And Chrysler had some decent product at that time.
And Dodge, and Chrysler Corp in general, was in decline since Eaton took over after the great Lee Iacocca. Then the Daimler merger which was a struggle in many ways. But some good did come from those years. Dodge maintained several products from that era until 2023.
And now we are Stellantis and being starved for new product except for Jeep. Fiat and Stellantis know the value of Jeep and have successfully made Jeep an international product line. They are also trying to expand Ram as an international brand but not with the same zest as Jeep.

 

[bill burke]

I commented in a previous article about this very thing and I've said it many times before. I don't understand how a brand with so much potential is having such a hard time with connecting to customers. I've also said before I don't understand why Stellantis over complicates this situation any why they do the stuff that they do sometimes.

The new platforms were great ideas, all four of them. The thing is, the North American market only really needs two of those platforms STLA Large and Frame. Being that the large platform can bring about cars that range anywhere from the size of a Honda Accord or BMW 3-series sedan to a vehicle the size of a Tahoe (113.0"-121" wheelbase), it really makes it hard for me to understand the real issue here when I see articles that say that the brand is struggling to make vehicles that connect with their customers. Not to mention we are positioned in the market with some of the most awesome trucks on the planet so why we can't connect with customers and make awesome vehicles that people want (and can afford) blows my mind. Part of the problem is that Dodge is a blue-collar brand and their pricing their vehicles (at least some of them) outside of that market. Not to mention the blatant misuse of their nameplates which is something that doesn't sit well with their customers and fans. On top of that, you have the Chrysler brand being snuffed out because they don't have the market space to be anything that they really need to be. It's true that we can blame the last several years of the company's downfall on CARLOS TAVARES and his quest to destroy the most iconic and traditional American brands so that the European brands can flourish. But there is more to it than just that and I really think there are things that need to be addressed and stressed to the point where the CEOs may stop for a moment and really think about what they have and how to best utilize everything that Mopar has been for the last century or so to their own advantage. And that's before we address the issue of product quality and market strategy

I don't want to beat the dead horse in saying that rolling out the EV stuff first was a bad idea. Why? Because we already knew that trying to go cold turkey on V8s and start selling EVs for Dodge was never going to go over well! We knew that, Ford knew that and so did everyone else. So I'm not going to mention the fact that rolling out EVs before rolling out regular cars was an imbecilic, half-witted, asinine, delusional idea conjured up by one, CARLOS TAVARES. It's just common sense not to do that, right? So now that I don't have to mention it, let's talk about some real stuff. I understand Stellantis is trying it's best to streamline what they have going on out there in Michigan and there's nothing wrong with that. Battling tariffs, the UAW, a volatile market, the EPA, and of course, all of us. Not going to lie, that's got to be rough! Mopar is an amalgamation of brands, fueled by enthusiasts with pure unadulterated passion and rebellious American pride. We love our V8 powered, rear wheel drive & 4x4 vehicles for none other than the reason of that's the way it was and that's the way it should always be for us. There's nothing wrong with that from the consumer standpoint and it's up to Stellantis to fill that need to keep it's customers. However, from the business standpoint, not everything can be a hellcat. I think, one of the biggest things Stellantis, North America needs to do would be to drop the Chrysler brand from the lineup completely. Jeep, for what it's worth, is a luxury brand, Ram has enough luxury in the 1500 pickup to Rival most of the big-3 european brands and Dodge has the Citadel and it's cars are pretty well appointed to be honest. That right there alone leaves Chrysler without a leg to stand on. Not to mention, it really just has the Minivan. However, a saving grace could be that Chrysler could become the sole Mopar lineup for the urban police force, now that I think about it. An STLA Large based wagon in either hybrid interceptor sedan with a 370hp/470tq 2.0L Hybrid turbo powertrain named the Chrysler Diplomat. Better power and torque than a 5.7L Hemi and better fuel economy. Chrysler could also market those cars to every rental company out there along with a smaller midsize STLA Large platform car known as the Chrysler Reliant, paying homage to the K-cars that saved the brand in the '80's

With Chrysler gone from the pedestrian market, let's focus on Jeep for the moment. I think alot of money was wasted on the Wagoneer, Grand Wagoneer, Wagoneer S and Recon along with the new Jeep Cherokee. Not to mention those names should have never been used on any of those vehicles at all. They're not competitive, and they do nothing to bring any kind of legacy to their names at all. Cherokee and Grand Cherokee literally should have been revised on the STLA Large platform and been made as modern versions of the SJ-Jeeps with the Hurricane engines and a 4Xe variant. Jeep can literally drop the 2-door wrangler and keep the Wrangler Unlimited 4-door as the sole variant of the Wrangler and have the Gladiator as it's chassis mate on the STLA Large platform, powered solely by the Hurricane H/O and S/O engines. Very simple lineup, straightforward, no issues. Bring out some Jeep options for off-roading and things of that nature, keep that blend of rugged luxury in the Grand Cherokee and call it a day. Cherokee should be a 2-row model and Grand Cherokee should be a three-row model. Renegade should be a trim level on all Jeeps not it's own model. While I'm not a fan of the new Wagoneers, I 100% feel that Jeep should have a decent sized SUV. If the STLA Large platform can create a vehicle with the same wheelbase as a Tahoe, The Jeep Commander should be the nameplate on that type of vehicle and it doesn't need to be that massive. Square, rugged and urban like a Jeep version of a Hummer is really what the Commander should be. This vehicles should be powered by both Hurricane-6 powertrains but also the 647hp EV powertrain that the Ram 1500 "Ramcharger" is getting and yes it should have the fratzonic exhaust system. Bringing back a top-tier luxury trim named "Golden Eagle" would also be a great idea along with a great 4x4 Cherokee Chief. Jeep also needs a 1500-series pickup called the J10 and it needs to have a 540hp "RHO-type" model, a 420hp "Rebel-type" model and a base 420hp "Warlock-style" model. All Hurricane-6 powered

The Dodge brand can benefit from having every single vehicle on the STLA Large platform and having everything AWD with the new 8-speed transmission. You want a Brand that can blend Heritage & future together then let that be the Dodge Brand. You don't even need to create new names for anything, with 100-years of being in the business, We don't need new names, we don't need to borrow names from other brands or anything else. Let me ask this question. If the STLA Large platform can range from 113"-121", what would stop Stellantis from making a small coupe and small sedan the same size as a BMW M3 sedan/M4 Coupe with a longitudinally mounted drivetrain powered by a 320hp 2.0L Hurricane-4 Turbo or even a hybrid version pushing 375-380hp and around 450lb-ft of torque (like the 4Xe) and call the Sedan the Neon and the Coupe the Dart? I could easily see this being a better "gateway to muscle" than the Hornet. Give both cars GT, R/T, GLH & SRT4 trim levels and packages and call it a day. Give both vehicles the hidden-hatch treatment like the Charger and bring what we need back to the market. Want a decent sedan with a good amount of room along the lines of a Toyota Camry or something in that range and still gets decent power? No problem, reintroducing the Dodge Intrepid. Still AWD, about the size of a Toyota Avalon, still the same 8-speed automatic with a 320hp 2.0L Hurricane-4 Turbo engine for the SXT trim. Trim levels include the SXT trim, the R/T trim with the 420hp Hurricane-6 S/O powertrain and the luxury Citadel Motorsports trim with the 550hp Hurricane-6 H/O powertrain and an SRT-level luxury interior with SRT-tune chassis and brakes and a mellow "sport" exhaust. Need a two-row SUV about the size of the WK Grand Cherokee with the option for a bit of GLH/SRT4 Performance? Reintroducing the Dodge Nitro. Dodge's version of an X5M-lite. If that rides to high, it's stable mate, the Journey might be more appealing with a bit of Hornet styling but longer, roomier and more powerful. Want a Minivan that doesn't look like a Minivan? Reintroducing the Dodge Grand Caravan, with a boxier shape that hearkens back to the D100 Street vans of the mid to late '70's with Jailbreak packages that lets you customize your "Street Van" any way you want it. Powered by either the 380hp 2.0L 4Xe hybrid system or the standard output 420hp Hurricane-6 engine. Trim level options include the well-appointed GT, the performance-oriented R/T, the hardcore GLH package and lastly, the luxury Citadel version. Next up, a large Dodge SUV that can tackle not only the black top, but the trail as well. Fitted with either the Standard output 420hp Hurricane-6 or the mighty 540hp Hurricane-6 High Output powertrain, correctly reintroducing the DODGE RAMCHARGER SUV. With two trim levels, either the rugged R/T "Road & Trail" 4X4 package or the classic rugged, yet refined Citadel package, The Ramcharger would be the largest SUV offered by Mopar.

Now of course we can't have Dodge without Muscle and no, I'm not talking about the Hurricane-6. Don't get me wrong, I think the hurricane-6 is amazing and I still love that powertrain. I don't think it's 100% the right powertrain for The direction that Dodge needs to go with it's muscle cars. Dodge needs two different sized V8 engines, the first being a 360ci V8 or a 5.9L in modern terms. Basically it would be taking a 5.7L engine and adding the 6.4L crankshaft. If anyone remembers back a few years ago Mopar Performance had scat pack kits for the 5.7L Hemi, which had the 6.4L heads, exhaust manifolds, a better cam, tune and a better exhaust and with everything combined it added like 55hp to the 5.7L moving it from 370hp to about 425hp or something like that. Taking that same concept, increasing the displacement on that by adding a bigger crank and then also an improved intake manifold, a better exhaust system, fuel system, and a different tune should be able to move that number closer to 480hp with a decent amount of torque, even to say around 450-460lb-ft of torque. That's not bad for an entry level V8, matter of fact, it's comparable to the cross-town rival Ford Mustang's 5.0L V8. Now let's say Stellantis decided to bring out a supercharged version of that engine pushing about 560hp, with forged internals and not maxed out so there's still room for maybe a few stage kits, with the Stage-II kit possibly having a smaller supercharger pulley and some different sized "overdrive" pulleys and things like that. Not bad right? That basically combines the best of the 5.7L Hemi and the 6.4L Hemi and gives us a classic "Small-block" engine that makes good power. At the other engine of this spectrum, we have the supercharged 7-liter Hellephant engine, a 426cubic inch street Hemi tuned to "900 horses of Detroit Muscle." You take these three engines and you put them in three very distinct vehicles, a Dodge Coronet Coupe, a Dodge Charger sedan and the Dodge Durango SUV. Being that the new Charger takes alot of it's styling cues from the '71-'74 Charger including most of it's interior design (although some came from '66-'67) along with the exterior cues from '71-'74 with a few cues from 1970. The Charger should get the Super Bee trim, the R/T trim and the SRT Daytona-426 trim as it's three tiers. The Coronet Coupe would have the Super Bee, R/T and SRT-426 trim levels and the Durango would have GT, R/T and SRT-426 trim levels along with a Citadel variant powered by the 420hp Hurricane-6 S/O powertrain. Yes, all three vehicles will be all-wheel-drive and all of them will have Jailbreak packages, as well as a full catalog of Direct Connection and SRT upgrades. It'd be nice if the Charger had the option for the '72 style taillights with the three sections and if the Coronet had it's classic 3-section taillamps as well.

As far as Ram is concerned, the 5.9L V8 played a big part in Ram Performance from vehicles like the Li'l Red Express. What's not to love about a 600hp Supercharged 5.9L street trim pickup truck called the Li'l Red express with side pipes integrated into chrome running boards, a short bed, either single cab or full four-door, black graphics with options of every sing shade of Mopar red that has been available from '68 until now. And who wouldn't love a 900hp Ram 1500 SRT Daytona pickup with the return of the big wing street performance pickup truck with a supercharged 426-Hemi and all-wheel drive. That still leaves room for the 420hp Hurricane-6 to power trim levels like the Big Horn and other lower model Ram 1500 trucks and for the 550hp Hurricane-6 to power trucks like the Limited, Laramie Longhorn and Tungsten. It even gives the higher end trucks the option of having the electric variant as a low-volume option being that it would now be the Ram 1500 REV in Tungsten or Limited models only. Ram 2500 and larger models need a larger Hemi V8 and I genuinely recommend a 610hp 440ci V8 to battle Ford's Godzilla V8 along with 7.0L Cummins diesel pushing over 1,000hp and over 1,100lb-ft of torque. As far as Ram commercial vehicles such as the promaster and promaster city vehicles along with certain chassis-cab trucks, this is where the EV world and Hurricane-6 powertrains can have a chance to shine in a major way. A Ram Dakota needs to happen like 10-years ago! Hurricane power is fine for most of the trim levels, but there has to be a 5.9L Dakota R/T option. This pretty much covers all of the bases for Stellantis North America and would be a great way to "Connect" with customers

Another big hurdle for Stellantis is quality. That has to be a major focal point for improvement for the brand in the upcoming years. A spectacular lineup is great, but if everything is junk that comes off the assembly line, a great lineup means nothing.
While there are a few V8 powered vehicles in this lineup, The majority of this lineup is still very much reliant on the Hurricane family of engines , including hybrids. Not to mention the EV aspect is still very much present in this lineup.

You cover almost every aspect of this tread. Thanks, I like your ideas.
Bottom line, Jeep and other North American brands tout the “all choices” in engine availability. No matter the brand or market segment targeted, a pure gasoline engine must be in the mix, even for a shrinking demographic for folks like me. Ryan and others make a valid point on offering profitable product and shifting markets, I get it, but where this goes wrong is in over estimating that market, at least for a decade, with what Toyota and Honda are doing. Affordable gas powered vehicles might just be the end run around the Koreans and Japanese by taking the all choices route to profitability. Just think Americans, as Traveres found out to everyone’s regret, are not European, not Asian in their decision making, but still seek other choices. Is that a Hemi in that brand new, shinny red Durango Charlie?
Your effort here, which I commend as incredibly thoughtful and common sense, is for the most part, something the corporate leaders should consider. My final point is that it’s premature to ignore the customers clinging, for whatever reasons, to old time and reliable power plants for modernized and stylish products because old time products float their boat. I and millions just want to float down that river of life in a gas powered something. Let those wanting something else have it, but for many, many factual reasons being ignored, like rare earth shortages, lack of infrastructure and costs, we seniors argue stubbornly, don’t ignore the wisdom only age can bring. The exuberance of youth sometimes misses the river.

 

[suzq044]

This disconnect is two fold.

First - European overlords. don't understand the American brands as well as they think they do. Shoving things over here under the wrong brands, that will ensure they won't sell well. It shows with the poor product planning.
Second - Customer Service & Dealer service is *ss.

By product planning, this is with Dodge & Jeep, mostly:

In the last 15 years Dodge has been pushing this "F*ck going green" persona. "Our Hybrids burn gas & rubber". So, -pikachu shock face- when they try to sell EVs as (expensive) muscle-cars doesn't go well. Over that last 15 years it wasn't just marketing. It was also the fact they'd systematically been cutting off their nose to spite their face. This started with FCA, admittedly. But since then there's been no announcements of replacing the nose either - lol. Before the LX's were finally laid to rest, they were cheap, 30k to get into one, 20k used, right? So they didn't need any other vehicles in the lineup, especially since the LX's were basically printing money. The problem is that the LX platform was literally the only place money was going because there were no other cars by the time Hellcat came around, to put money into. They literally put all their eggs into one basket.

In 2011, Durango came out; in 2013, Dart came out; both to good review; and before that there was the Avenger and the Journey that also brought customers in. But, FCA nixed all of them instead of investing in them and fixing problems - or making CUVs to replace them since at the time, that's where the market was going - at least that was the excuse. All the money went to Jeep & Ram - or into bringing the Italian brands to the US. So now, you have a Dodge that was set up to fail. No entry level vehicles by the time they cut off LX. Charger & Challenger were effectively the only cars on the lot to sell that weren't a Jeep or the Chrysler 300 - that was left to languish without any updates before the last special-trim level came out. Pretending that it was lack of sales - well no sh*t. There was nothing anyone wanted because all of these vehicles were now too old & without any real updates or upgrades that weren't essentially required by law. They were trying to do as little as physically possible while still staying afloat is what it felt like.

That left Dodge with Hornet & Durango. The latter, a vehicle that has seen 1 facelift in its almost 15 year run, and they keep extending it's production; and a then-too-expensive Hornet that has is awkward looking on its best days, and everyone and their mother knows that it's a warmed over Alfa Romeo. You might as well get the Alfa if you're gonna spend the 40k+ some dealers were asking for. Add to that, they advertise it as a baby muscle car that zero people are gonna buy bc it's also a hybrid. Something Dodge enthusiasts don't generally care about. If it looks bad in the advertising nobody is gonna give it a second glance; and it does look bad in the advertising. Too try-hard.

Then you bring in the new Charger EV. At 70,000$ it's more than twice what you could get into an LX for new. Plus it's an EV, so kind of a limited market here, and on top of it just being an EV with this 'exhaust' system that's trying to cater to Hemi buyers (it comes off try-hard/poser, not performance), they released the EV coupe first. So the least sellable model is what they decided to produce first. Not only do coupes not sell as well in general, but a coupe the size of an F150 and for the same price range was probably not their best choice. It should've been the Hurricane-Sedan first. Then the Hurricane-coupe, and then the EV sedan, and then the EV coupe. Because then, going EV is a choice. People value choices. It would have also given the aftermarket a chance to develop systems that make the hurricane sound good. That give that visceral effect that people miss from the Hemi. If they did it that way, they wouldn't have had to "bring back the Hemi."

I want to say that the original line was that Dodge was gonna be the performance brand, Chrysler was gonna be the EV/People-mover brand, and Jeep was gonna continue its path as off-road kings while Ram continued its truck thing. If they'd kept on that path instead of every CEO wanting to make its own mark on the company as it gets passed around - resulting in a lack of stability in management and a lack of forethought - we wouldn't be in this mess. Jeep wouldn't be saddled with vehicles that aren't off-road-first; and Chrysler wouldn't be devoid of vehicles that aren't a minivan pretending to be three minivans, and Dodge wouldn't be between a rock and a hard place.

Chrysler could be the one with the best lineup if they had a clue about the American brands.
Chrysler Aspen/S - Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer -- only needs some minor changes
Chrysler Concorde/S - Wagoneer S / Launch Edition -- Airflow styling
Chrysler Imperial/S - Charger EV / Stage 2 -- Keep fuselage inspiration from Charger, just make it Chrysler.
Chrysler Conquest/S - new Cherokee (w/ chrysler styling) --- because Hybrid & mediocre off-road orientation (thus far)
Chrysler Alpine/S - new Compass (w/ chrysler styling) --- because hybrid/EV & mediocre off-road orientation (thus far)

Dodge can have ev and still do performance. It just needs to make sure the gas engine is always an option. It also needs entry level vehicles yesterday.
Jeep needs to get back to basics; putting Wagoneers, Cherokee & Compass into Chrysler achieves that in the US. They can still be sold as Jeeps outside the US. American versions need to be off-road first. Not just best in class, but the mark that everyone strives to match, let alone compete against. The top of the hill, not the top of the class. And do it for less than the other guys.
Ram needs those smaller trucks, I don't know what's taking them so long to bring them State-side, but the Rampage & the Dakota might be too little too late by the time they get here. Ramcharger tech in those might be their biggest selling points though. Something the other trucks don't - as of yet - have.

 

[patfromigh]

According to legaldictionary(dot)net, "In the early 20th century, vagrancy laws made having no visible means of support a misdemeanor." Keep in mind that article goes on to explain the courts later struck down many of the vagrancy laws as being too vague.

The Stellantis brands are guilty as charged. They have no visible means of support. There has to be a selection of vehicles which support the halo products. The time is now to bring back the Dart. It can be the spoiler in the compact car rivalry between the Honda Civic hybrid and the Prius. Auburn Hills needs to get in early on the next new Alfa Romeo, built on the STLA medium platform. Instead of badge engineering and importing an Alfa model as a Dodge, build something here with American styling and drivetrains.

Chrysler was forced to fill in the gap when Plymouth died. What will fill in the gap for Chrysler?

As stated above:

Ram needs those smaller trucks, I don't know what's taking them so long to bring them State-side, but the Rampage & the Dakota might be too little too late by the time they get here. Ramcharger tech in those might be their biggest selling points though. Something the other trucks don't - as of yet - have.

The Stout should be a wake up call to Jeep and Ram, especially since much of the development for it came from ex-Auburn Hills people.

I disagree that the softer Jeeps need to be marketed as other brands. The KM Cherokee will have mechanical AWD and will probably have off road packages later on. However, the Jeep lineup needs straightening out. Rumor has it that the PHEV setup will be ditched when a Ramcharger like REEV system arrives for the Wrangler. Jeep should keep the ZF hybrid transmissions and offer 48V and high voltage options without the plugin. I would also start off the next Compass with the same hybrid drive as the Cherokee, but with an e-axle for the 4xe.

 

[suzq044]

...

The Stout should be a wake up call to Jeep and Ram, especially since much of the development for it came from ex-Auburn Hills people.
...

No, this should be; should have been.


What happens when Toyota makes a Wrangler out of a Land Cruiser. Can you imagine the devastation when people who are tired of dealing with Jeep's quality issues "it's just a Jeep thing".. move to Toyota because they're tired of the Jeep thing? If it's the same price range? -- I can 100% see Jeep getting its nose cut off in sales because it hasn't innovated sh*t since the early 2000s.

 

[patfromigh]

What happens when Toyota makes a Wrangler out of a Land Cruiser. Can you imagine the devastation when people who are tired of dealing with Jeep's quality issues "it's just a Jeep thing".. move to Toyota because they're tired of the Jeep thing? If it's the same price range? -- I can 100% see Jeep getting its nose cut off in sales because it hasn't innovated sh*t since the early 2000s.

Have you priced a Toyota truck lately? They have managed to outdo the CDJR brands for option bundles and mandatory option prices. Why would I buy a top of the line Taco when I can pony up 5 Grand more and get a base RHO?

The average transaction price on a Tacoma is $45,000 and the Tundra's is $63,000. What do you think that vehicle in your photos would sticker at after considering what Toyota charges for any of their BOF vehicles with off-road trims and option packages.

The Slate reintroduces an emphasis on affordability to our market. Setting aside its drive-train for a moment, the ideas of simplicity, efficiency, and utility are combined in one package.
You missed this conservation__ Tribute To The Compact Pickup: Jeep® Comanche Concept

 

[suzq044]

Have you priced a Toyota truck lately? They have managed to outdo the CDJR brands for option bundles and mandatory option prices. Why would I buy a top of the line Taco when I can pony up 5 Grand more and get a base RHO?

The average transaction price on a Tacoma is $45,000 and the Tundra's is $63,000. What do you think that vehicle in your photos would sticker at after considering what Toyota charges for any of their BOF vehicles with off-road trims and option packages.

The Slate reintroduces an emphasis on affordability to our market. Setting aside its drive-train for a moment, the ideas of simplicity, efficiency, and utility are combined in one package.
You missed this conservation__ Tribute To The Compact Pickup: Jeep® Comanche Concept

Yeah and people would eat that price if it meant that the car was more reliable. And right now? Toyota is where people go for reliability. CDJR is not where people run to in thinking quality & reliability. It just shows how much that means to people. Rams new powertrain warranty will help, since Toyota's warranty is about the same as the Dodge one. Since Ram doesn't have a small truck I can't really compare, but they really do span the gamut between 40k and 70k starting price, not separating heavy-duty/light duty trucks. Obviously the RHO can get priced higher, and with the returning TRX, it probably will go even higher still.

The point of my statement is they could do it, and people would buy it instead of Wrangler if they had the choice. Even if it was sold as a Lexus G-series.

----
Yeah - the Slate is cheap - but that's really all it is. It doesn't mean it'll sell. People like the idea of it. I'm not sure the reality of it is going to fly as easily as the idea. The big companies could make a 27k pickup. I know they can, they just aren't going to unless the Slate proves to actually be a threat. Captive audience. They don't have to because people are still buying them at 40k. Because if you can make a whole CUV for under 30k, you can make a small pickup for the same or less, using that chassis - ala Santa Cruz/Maverick. It was why the Maverick was so popular. It was cheap, and more importantly: a warranty from a major manufacturer. Especially with these newer skateboard-style platforms.

Right now Slate is selling an idea. Until they start actually producing things, it could go the way of many startups; nowhere.

 

[patfromigh]

Right now Slate is selling an idea. Until they start actually producing things, it could go the way of many startups; nowhere

Very true, but ideas change consumer expectations. The Slate is a long shot, the Santa Cruz is priced in the mid-size truck range when AWD is checked off in the options column, and the Ford Maverick keeps getting pricier. Stellantis can produce an affordable blank slate type vehicle, as a matter of fact they do, just not here.

Jeep killing the Renegade prematurely is one reason Stellantis is failing to connect with customers. It is symbolic of the dearth of products in the CDJR lineup.

 

[DodgeAL]

This disconnect is two fold.

First - European overlords. don't understand the American brands as well as they think they do. Shoving things over here under the wrong brands, that will ensure they won't sell well. It shows with the poor product planning.
Second - Customer Service & Dealer service is *ss.

By product planning, this is with Dodge & Jeep, mostly:

In the last 15 years Dodge has been pushing this "F*ck going green" persona. "Our Hybrids burn gas & rubber". So, -pikachu shock face- when they try to sell EVs as (expensive) muscle-cars doesn't go well. Over that last 15 years it wasn't just marketing. It was also the fact they'd systematically been cutting off their nose to spite their face. This started with FCA, admittedly. But since then there's been no announcements of replacing the nose either - lol. Before the LX's were finally laid to rest, they were cheap, 30k to get into one, 20k used, right? So they didn't need any other vehicles in the lineup, especially since the LX's were basically printing money. The problem is that the LX platform was literally the only place money was going because there were no other cars by the time Hellcat came around, to put money into. They literally put all their eggs into one basket.

In 2011, Durango came out; in 2013, Dart came out; both to good review; and before that there was the Avenger and the Journey that also brought customers in. But, FCA nixed all of them instead of investing in them and fixing problems - or making CUVs to replace them since at the time, that's where the market was going - at least that was the excuse. All the money went to Jeep & Ram - or into bringing the Italian brands to the US. So now, you have a Dodge that was set up to fail. No entry level vehicles by the time they cut off LX. Charger & Challenger were effectively the only cars on the lot to sell that weren't a Jeep or the Chrysler 300 - that was left to languish without any updates before the last special-trim level came out. Pretending that it was lack of sales - well no sh*t. There was nothing anyone wanted because all of these vehicles were now too old & without any real updates or upgrades that weren't essentially required by law. They were trying to do as little as physically possible while still staying afloat is what it felt like.

That left Dodge with Hornet & Durango. The latter, a vehicle that has seen 1 facelift in its almost 15 year run, and they keep extending it's production; and a then-too-expensive Hornet that has is awkward looking on its best days, and everyone and their mother knows that it's a warmed over Alfa Romeo. You might as well get the Alfa if you're gonna spend the 40k+ some dealers were asking for. Add to that, they advertise it as a baby muscle car that zero people are gonna buy bc it's also a hybrid. Something Dodge enthusiasts don't generally care about. If it looks bad in the advertising nobody is gonna give it a second glance; and it does look bad in the advertising. Too try-hard.

Then you bring in the new Charger EV. At 70,000$ it's more than twice what you could get into an LX for new. Plus it's an EV, so kind of a limited market here, and on top of it just being an EV with this 'exhaust' system that's trying to cater to Hemi buyers (it comes off try-hard/poser, not performance), they released the EV coupe first. So the least sellable model is what they decided to produce first. Not only do coupes not sell as well in general, but a coupe the size of an F150 and for the same price range was probably not their best choice. It should've been the Hurricane-Sedan first. Then the Hurricane-coupe, and then the EV sedan, and then the EV coupe. Because then, going EV is a choice. People value choices. It would have also given the aftermarket a chance to develop systems that make the hurricane sound good. That give that visceral effect that people miss from the Hemi. If they did it that way, they wouldn't have had to "bring back the Hemi."

I want to say that the original line was that Dodge was gonna be the performance brand, Chrysler was gonna be the EV/People-mover brand, and Jeep was gonna continue its path as off-road kings while Ram continued its truck thing. If they'd kept on that path instead of every CEO wanting to make its own mark on the company as it gets passed around - resulting in a lack of stability in management and a lack of forethought - we wouldn't be in this mess. Jeep wouldn't be saddled with vehicles that aren't off-road-first; and Chrysler wouldn't be devoid of vehicles that aren't a minivan pretending to be three minivans, and Dodge wouldn't be between a rock and a hard place.

Chrysler could be the one with the best lineup if they had a clue about the American brands.
Chrysler Aspen/S - Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer -- only needs some minor changes
Chrysler Concorde/S - Wagoneer S / Launch Edition -- Airflow styling
Chrysler Imperial/S - Charger EV / Stage 2 -- Keep fuselage inspiration from Charger, just make it Chrysler.
Chrysler Conquest/S - new Cherokee (w/ chrysler styling) --- because Hybrid & mediocre off-road orientation (thus far)
Chrysler Alpine/S - new Compass (w/ chrysler styling) --- because hybrid/EV & mediocre off-road orientation (thus far)

Dodge can have ev and still do performance. It just needs to make sure the gas engine is always an option. It also needs entry level vehicles yesterday.
Jeep needs to get back to basics; putting Wagoneers, Cherokee & Compass into Chrysler achieves that in the US. They can still be sold as Jeeps outside the US. American versions need to be off-road first. Not just best in class, but the mark that everyone strives to match, let alone compete against. The top of the hill, not the top of the class. And do it for less than the other guys.
Ram needs those smaller trucks, I don't know what's taking them so long to bring them State-side, but the Rampage & the Dakota might be too little too late by the time they get here. Ramcharger tech in those might be their biggest selling points though. Something the other trucks don't - as of yet - have.

You sir done hit the nails on the head ! All the $$ went to the JEEP and RAM brands because they were great profit makers, in the process they put all the corporate eggs in one basket so to speak. That left the rest of the offerings dying on the vine ! Not only should have the CEO's been fired but also the board of directors for allowing this mismanagement !

 

[suzq044]

Very true, but ideas change consumer expectations. The Slate is a long shot, the Santa Cruz is priced in the mid-size truck range when AWD is checked off in the options column, and the Ford Maverick keeps getting pricier. Stellantis can produce an affordable blank slate type vehicle, as a matter of fact they do, just not here.

Jeep killing the Renegade prematurely is one reason Stellantis is failing to connect with customers. It is symbolic of the dearth of products in the CDJR lineup.

Jeep letting the Renegade languish instead of updating it like it did for it around the flipping world, like bringing the 4xe here - for both compass & renegade - and doing the 2023 facelift, is what killed it. They let it languish and then blamed poor sales. Well no sh*t, Sherlock: When everyone else has way more to offer, because you can't be bothered to invest in your existing lineup, then they're not gonna sell. It hadn't been updated unless it was necessary like - they didn't want to keep replacing Tigersharks so they moved them all to the turbo models. The problem is that's all they really did, and still made the price higher because "Jeep" I guess.

By 2023, it looked almost exactly the same as a 2015 model with the minor bumper refresh in like 2019, I think. Then the big refresh which had alll the renegade people like "I Want That", only to not have it come to the US, instead, ending American import of the vehicle, and focusing on Compass. Which -- is basically the same vehicle but a little longer but MORE EXPENSIVE so more profit per sale!

But now Compass is languishing, and again - everywhere else is getting this new generation but North America, particularly the US. What we get is the Cherokee that so far isn't impressing anyone with that sh*tshow they called a reveal. Are they going to simply cut off their nose to spite their face again? Killing the last of the 'affordable' Jeeps? The last entry level car in all of CDJR? Possibly. We just don't know, with the way things are running around here.


This company enjoys keeping vehicles around too long without major changes and updates -- then blaming sales to cut them from the lineup.

 

[patfromigh]

This company enjoys keeping vehicles around too long without major changes and updates -- then blaming sales to cut them from the lineup.

The entirety of your post is preaching to the choir. Almost everyone in the room is tired of the corporate stupidity. Jeep not offering the 4Xe Renegade here is why I'm now driving a Toyota with e-AWD.

In the time the Belvedere, IL facility has sat idle, a factory was built in Argentina to produce the Fiat Titano pickup because the imported CKDs being assembled elsewhere in Latin America couldn't keep up with demand. A line was added to produce the 2.2 Multi-Jet diesel to replace the Chinese built engine. Another facility added a line to produce a new Citroen model in Argentina. Brazil has seen manufacturing expansion and new model proliferation during this time period.

While the Belvedere, IL facility has sat idle new models have come in for the Euro brands at an accelerated pace. One Peugeot model looks suspiciously like the Chrysler replacement for the Dodge Journey that somehow never showed up here. New manufacturing facilities have arisen along Mediterranean port cities in the EMEA region.

We got "NO SOUP FOR YOU." While the Latin American and EMEA markets hit the ground running post merger, we were told things will take awhile to sort out after the merger.

So I'm not happy with things either, but as far as the KM Cherokee is concerned, I see it as a glass half full and not as a glass half empty.

 

[DodgeAL]

What would happen if, the RAM1500 single cab with a 5.7 Hemi auto trans had a MSRP of $38K and was not a stripper ?

 

[suzq044]

What would happen if, the RAM1500 single cab with a 5.7 Hemi auto trans had a MSRP of $38K and was not a stripper ?

I mean - it might not sell at all outside of fleet. The only single cabs I ever see is work trucks.

 

[DodgeAL]

When I was living in SW FL up until Dec 2024 I saw quite a few with the 5.7 Hemi, jacked up, custom wheels, meats, and exhaust. That said, crew cabs would fit right in. Also short bed options in both models as well. That said I heard quite a few people saying " I don't want a PU that is a living room on wheels". As for me. I'm keeping my Scat Pack till dooms day. LOL.

 

[suzq044]

When I was living in SW FL up until Dec 2024 I saw quite a few with the 5.7 Hemi, jacked up, custom wheels, meats, and exhaust. That said, crew cabs would fit right in. Also short bed options in both models as well. That said I heard quite a few people saying " I don't want a PU that is a living room on wheels". As for me. I'm keeping my Scat Pack till dooms day. LOL.

Yeah but they likely came from fleet sales - used or custom ordered that way. They aren't typically ordered by the dealerships that way. More money and all that.

I get that - not everyone considers what other people need isn't the same thing as what they need. The problem is that clearly Ram wasn't selling enough single cabs to warrant keeping them in the lineup for non-fleet sales.

 

[DodgeAL]

IF ........................ RAM had offered them as I said , who knows ? The first time I saw one as stated I said "wow" that's a PU I'd buy and it was driven by a 30's female !