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Why Doesn't Stellantis Offer A HEMI® PHEV Engine?

In the fast-paced world of automotive innovation, few engines hold the legendary status of the HEMI® V8. Stellantis has a rich history of producing high-performance vehicles powered by these iconic engines. Recently, our article “Why Can’t Stellantis Build A Next-Gen HEMI® Engine?” generated a flurry of responses, with many enthusiasts and experts pondering a compelling … (read full article...)

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vbondjr1

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I think a better question to pose is why doesn't Stellantis offer a hybrid V8, not specifically a "Hemi" I've commented in other places that a modern DOHC 5.2L (and/or 5.9L DOHC) V8 forced induction (twin turbo) V8 powertrain could potentially be a decent idea. Not saying that it would happen but it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world for a couple of reasons. For the more emotional reason, the 318ci (5.2L) V8 was one of the engines that really survived during the original EPA vs Muscle car war of the 1970's when we went through pretty much the exact same thing we're going through right now, along with the Slant-6 225ci (3.7L) engine. There was also a 360ci (5.9L) V8 that slipped through the emissions cracks in a Dodge pickup known as the Li'l Red Express that was kind of a Hero engine of it's time. While it would be cool to see a 5.2L V8 and a 5.9L V8 slide in and save the V8's day, the real question is where (and how) would this engine fit in the lineup with the new powertrains coming out? The brand already has a 375hp 2.0L Hybrid, a 420hp 3.0L SO, a 510-550hp 3.0L HO in the lineup so you already have the 5.7L Hemi, 6.1L Hemi and 6.4L Hemi replaced right there. As far as it's American competition, that already beats out anything with a 3.5L HO in Ford's lineup, any of the production 5-Liter vehicles (Mustang GT, Mustang Dark Horse and F150 pickup) and all of the smaller Ecoboost powertrains and outpowers the naturally aspirated 6.2L GM V8 small blocks from the Corvette to the pickup trucks. The only real competition a 318ci V8 would have from Stellantis would be the now-extinct Shelby GT500 mustang and the Ford F150 Raptor R. While that business model would seem to make a bit of sense as it is already a business model that is proven to be working by the blue oval brand, would the price be accessable to most people? The answer to that would be a resounding no. It would be a high-price, low production powertrain similar to a redeye, however with that kind of setup, the power levels could be very similar and with a twin turbo hybrid setup, it would have very low emissions readings coming out of the tailpipes.

On the other end of that equation, you have the upcoming full battery electric powertrains coming into play. Just to guestimate the power of a hybrid twin turbo 5.2L V8 at even the same 760hp that the Ford GT500's 5.2L puts out with more torque because it's a hybrid. That would put it above the Charger EV Daytona 440 Stage-2's 500Kw or 670hp and seeing that we don't know what the Banshee will be putting out (although a safe bet would be somewhere in the vicinity of 884hp since each of the STLA Large EDMs puts out a max of about 442hp and if a tri-motor setup gets a green light, we could see a "1320" package putting down an estimated potential of about 1,326hp on an 800V system which would put even the Lucid Air Sapphire in it's rear view mirror.

While it would be cool and very nostalgic to see this happen and it is mostly a proven business model by the competition, As much as I think alot of us would love to see Stellantis do something like this and have a complete "balance of power" so to speak, the chances are that this is very unlikely for the brand. It's definitely something that could easily work, especially if the brands were cleaned up and repurposed properly with just Dodge and Jeep. But again the likelihood of this happening isn't very high. But, as I've said before, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. Hopefully our beloved brand will pull through and produce a next generation of vehicles that will be profitable and enjoyable and affordable, along with being customizable on all trim levels so that everyone at any level of Dodge ownership can truly have something unique and awesome. Here's hoping!
 

patfromigh

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FCA built more Hemi PHEV Ram pickup trucks for the DOE study last decade, than Chrysler Corp did with the Turbine cars in the 1960's. I'm sure the results of the study are still on the internet somewhere, but now pure battery electric is the only power train which fits the only allowed narrative. It is interesting that following the Ram PHEV program, FCA went with ZF for transmissions (the Ram PHEV pickups used a GM supplied transmission.) and also started designing a new inline six cylinder engine.
 

MoparRay

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The problem is that 5.7 hemi has fatal flaw in it's oiling system causing lifter failure. Stellantis would have to redesign the existing block and new tooling. The costs would be hard to swallow and possibly open them up to lawsuit to 5.7L owners.
 

jdl1974

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It probably has to do with the government forcing the hand of the automakers, but I totally agree with the article. Or Stellantis management is buying into the Elon Musk cult. But whatever it is, we deserve a low stress V8, augmented and made better with some electrification, especially if they can find a way of doing it in a simple and cost-effective way. Even if they downsize the HEMIs a bit, it would still be powerful for most non-SRT applications. I'd like to see a simple in-transmission hybrid with one efficient HVAC system, one method for starting the engine, and a clean engine bay for once. Use electrification to make it better, smoother and more efficient, and not needlessly complicating everything. Maybe this is a glorified start/stop feature that throws away the belt-driven eTorque system. First and second gear could be heavily boosted by the electric motor while smoothly starting the engine again. If you could get lighter batteries, and an efficient and simple HVAC system it would help.
 
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patfromigh

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The BSG isn't going anywhere. Even with the ZF based hybrid systems, the BSG allows smooth, coordinated starts on the fly. Supposedly, the next generation ZF transmissions will offer mild hybrid system with an electric motor in the transmission. There can't be a better HVAC system without going to a 48V or a high voltage hybrid. Battery electric vehicles are also high voltage.
 

redriderbob

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FCA built more Hemi PHEV Ram pickup trucks for the DOE study last decade, than Chrysler Corp did with the Turbine cars in the 1960's. I'm sure the results of the study are still on the internet somewhere, but now pure battery electric is the only power train which fits the only allowed narrative. It is interesting that following the Ram PHEV program, FCA went with ZF for transmissions (the Ram PHEV pickups used a GM supplied transmission.) and also started designing a new inline six cylinder engine.

 

Mopar392

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The problem is that 5.7 hemi has fatal flaw in it's oiling system causing lifter failure. Stellantis would have to redesign the existing block and new tooling. The costs would be hard to swallow and possibly open them up to lawsuit to 5.7L owners.
I myself and the guys I know in real life or from multiple forums, whom went through at least one time of lifters and cam change, had to upgrade the oil pump to either Hellcat oil pump or Melling oil pump to increase the lube oil pressure and haven't had an issue since.
 

Mopar392

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FCA built more Hemi PHEV Ram pickup trucks for the DOE study last decade, than Chrysler Corp did with the Turbine cars in the 1960's. I'm sure the results of the study are still on the internet somewhere, but now pure battery electric is the only power train which fits the only allowed narrative. It is interesting that following the Ram PHEV program, FCA went with ZF for transmissions (the Ram PHEV pickups used a GM supplied transmission.) and also started designing a new inline six cylinder engine.


And Legacy Chrysler Corp had the experience and data with the Durango and Aspen hybrid, before the recession and the bailout.

Yes, technology has advanced since then, but the data from Ram PHEV and Durango Hybrid programs should be ok for starting point to design a new PHEV HEMI.
 

Mopar392

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The problem is, and no offense to our European fellows, that the European management of Stellantis don't believe, like or get the idea of big hunky V8.
 

TripleT

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The problem is, and no offense to our European fellows, that the European management of Stellantis don't believe, like or get the idea of big hunky V8.
BS EU management has been riding that cash cow for decades. Simple reality is the V8 is not or likely to be a superior powerplant to the new one and would have regulatory issues in passenger cars even with the ZF system.

This troupe is getting tiresome. The biggest issue with the Current EU management is they don't believe in Bespoke models for a given task. So you get multiple cars across different brands with the only deafferentation being Coachwork.

Depending on a regulatory environment for LD trucks and HD trucks a nice interim step would be the ZF Torque converterless Hybrid mated to Hemi.
 

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