Stellantis ready to axe brands [Reuters] - Erik and Dave @ Allpar in bunker mode

[TripleT]

I would . He is the very reason we all sit here now staring at an empty cupboard of new product .

Cupboard isn't empty it is a year behind, which now is obviously got Jammed up in the fiscal freeze in the merger. SUCKS for sure, maybe they thought they could catch back up. At this point it is what it is.... if anything they have to many new models they are trying to release at once.

 

[Bili]

I would . He is the very reason we all sit here now staring at an empty cupboard of new product .

Disagree.

Sergio got the company in a very bad shape. High interest rates and not so great or very limited cash flow.
For example first dividends by FCA were paid in 2018. Gues when he/Sergio died?

Most developments were already firing under all cylinders under Sergio. A lot was killed or postponed by Manley and later PSA

Heck even relationship with ZF is spared because of Mike and Carlos. Under Sergio there were huge or at least hit plans for the 4th generation of ZF 8HP in both hybrid forms with early adopted being Maserati and Alfa Romeo.
I would put my hand in the fire and say that GME T6 was originally planned as P2.5 MHEV with ZF 8HP 4th gen as the integral part of it.

I may tell you which products, platforms and powertrains were killed by Manley and Tavares. I know more about Europe but I think that @redriderbob can tell much more about the USA.

Don't forget that this GME only craze, limited powertrain chocies, BEV first launches and even BEV only products, are idea of Manley and even more ex PSA management. This is crazy what are they doing.

Don't forget all those fired people in US and Italy, especially on the engineering side.
If I'm not mistakes now 65% of they STLA patents are by ex PSA, they come from France.

Sergio on the other hand was very interested in growth of American and Italian workforce. Something which can't be said about Carlos.

 

[BWS1]

Disagree.

Sergio got the company in a very bad shape. High interest rates and not so great or very limited cash flow.
For example first dividends by FCA were paid in 2018. Gues when he/Sergio died?

Most developments were already firing under all cylinders under Sergio. A lot was killed or postponed by Manley and later PSA

Heck even relationship with ZF is spared because of Mike and Carlos. Under Sergio there were huge or at least hit plans for the 4th generation of ZF 8HP in both hybrid forms with early adopted being Maserati and Alfa Romeo.
I would put my hand in the fire and say that GME T6 was originally planned as P2.5 MHEV with ZF 8HP 4th gen as the integral part of it.

I may tell you which products, platforms and powertrains were killed by Manley and Tavares. I know more about Europe but I think that @redriderbob can tell much more about the USA.

Don't forget that this GME only craze, limited powertrain chocies, BEV first launches and even BEV only products, are idea of Manley and even more ex PSA management. This is crazy what are they doing.

Don't forget all those fired people in US and Italy, especially on the engineering side.
If I'm not mistakes now 65% of they STLA patents are by ex PSA, they come from France.

Sergio on the other hand was very interested in growth of American and Italian workforce. Something which can't be said about Carlos.

You’ve made some good points. I will tell you in the end as far as I can see they were and are just working for the billionaire yacht club and in the end he will sell it to the Chinese and move on. He may love his car playground , but he loves his billions more and this bunch he has in charge now are gonna run it in the ground . And then he will sell it cheap

 

[DodgeFL]

Say what you want about Sergio. At the very least, he was a car guy, not a damn crazy bean counter !

 

[Bili]

You’ve made some good points. I will tell you in the end as far as I can see they were and are just working for the billionaire yacht club and in the end he will sell it to the Chinese and move on. He may love his car playground , but he loves his billions more and this bunch he has in charge now are gonna run it in the ground . And then he will sell it cheap

Who? John Elkann?

I'm not sure if he is even in a fight against his mother for Exor shares. It's not nice.

On the other hand in my opinion here at Stellantis a lot of concessions are being asked and pushed by French Government. Lets not forget that France is one of the 3 major Stellantis shareholders. The other 2 are of course Exor and Peugeot family.

Say what you want about Sergio. At the very least, he was a car guy, not a damn crazy bean counter !

Yeah, very interesting opinion and I do agree.

But what defines a car guy? In my opinion that's someone who likes car in general, who likes to drive cars. Sergio drove BMW M5 before he joined Fiat Group in mid 00's.

On the other hand Carlos is engineer and avid rally driver. But is he a car guy or bean counter?
Some argue that he is a cad guy. I disagree.

 

[BWS1]

Botto

Who? John Elkann?

I'm not sure if he is even in a fight against his mother for Exor shares. It's not nice.

On the other hand in my opinion here at Stellantis a lot of concessions are being asked and pushed by French Government. Lets not forget that France is one of the 3 major Stellantis shareholders. The other 2 are of course Exor and Peugeot family.



Yeah, very interesting opinion and I do agree.

But what defines a car guy? In my opinion that's someone who likes car in general, who likes to drive cars. Sergio drove BMW M5 before he joined Fiat Group in mid 00's.

On the other hand Carlos is engineer and avid rally driver. But is he a car guy or bean counter?
Some argue that he is a cad guy. I disagre

Who? John Elkann?

I'm not sure if he is even in a fight against his mother for Exor shares. It's not nice.

On the other hand in my opinion here at Stellantis a lot of concessions are being asked and pushed by French Government. Lets not forget that France is one of the 3 major Stellantis shareholders. The other 2 are of course Exor and Peugeot family.



Yeah, very interesting opinion and I do agree.

But what defines a car guy? In my opinion that's someone who likes car in general, who likes to drive cars. Sergio drove BMW M5 before he joined Fiat Group in mid 00's.

On the other hand Carlos is engineer and avid rally driver. But is he a car guy or bean counter?
Some argue that he is a cad guy. I disagree.

Elkann, momma, Peugeot, whoever. Bottom line , this fairytale ride our world economy has taken due to reactionary , unnecessary government spending due to Covid is coming to a quick end . Look around at the headlines , go to the grocery store and see how far $100 will get you. The companies that are well positioned will muddle through , the others , well, the Chinese are waiting with their trillions in hand to clean up the scraps. This bunch will divest in North America.

 

[scatpack_69]

Cupboard isn't empty it is a year behind, which now is obviously got Jammed up in the fiscal freeze in the merger. SUCKS for sure, maybe they thought they could catch back up. At this point it is what it is.... if anything they have to many new models they are trying to release at once.

No. It’s empty. Well beyond empty. Old outdated product is all we have.

 

[scatpack_69]

Say what you want about Sergio. At the very least, he was a car guy, not a damn crazy bean counter !

A car guy that openly shopped for a dance partner, while talking **** about his products. No wonder people didn’t buy, when the CEO talks bad about what he makes…

Sergio did well. We cannot overlook what he allowed to be built. But he didn’t look to the future at all and merely relied on “we need to merge”. That’s a damn lazy way to plan for future product, and ultimately says we will let someone else do the leg work, we will merge and use their stuff.

It was atrocious management at the end of his tenure. And now we have…..nothing.

 

[DodgeFL]

BYD group touring Mopar plants. The Chinese have a habit of buying failing auto brands and turning them around

 

[plymouth1]

Ram as a separate brand is still stupid and unnecessary.

 

[WXman]

Ram/Jeep/Dodge sales numbers vs. competitors were the best of our entire lifetimes under Sergio, and some of us are getting old. You can say what you want about the guy, but he made Dodge not only socially acceptable again, but socially preferable.

 

[TripleT]

Ram as a separate brand is still stupid and unnecessary.

It was absolutely necessary when the last USA ownership group wanted to sell it the Nissan. But since then it has grown into international brand that at this point is more valuable than Dodge. It hurts but that is the reality. What your asking is for Dodge to piggyback on that to help retain it, when the most likely outcome would be Dodge slowly leaving the car market altogether. Basically becoming RAM...

Poor idea at this point. This many year removed it makes about as much sense as putting the Name back to Graham.

 

[DodgeFL]

Hmmm ? Since RAM sales have collapsed, and quality rating is 3 names above the bottom, now what ? I'm not a truck guy but was watching RAM giving GM and FORD fits as it was challenging their # 1 and #2 sales positions. Now RAM isn't even in the running ! Under Carlos the money making machine that was Chrysler NA is dead, nice jobs fools !
Now will corporate raiders swarm in and pick the bones clean ?

 

[TripleT]

Not so fast... My expectation for fuel and interest rates to adjust and full sized trucks will make a comeback.