Mopar Insiders Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Stellantis Accidentally Leaks Images Of All-New Wagoneer S

In a surprising turn of events, Stellantis’ social media account on Facebook unintentionally gave us a glimpse of the upcoming, highly anticipated all-electric Jeep® Wagoneer S. Although the automaker swiftly deleted the leaked photos, one eagle-eyed reader managed to snag them before they vanished into the digital abyss. The leaked images showcase the Wagoneer S in a sleek Silver finish, revealing features previously teased during Jeep’s 4xe Day in 2021. Notably, the Wagoneer S is set to make history as the first all-electric vehicle manufactured in North America, specifically for the North American market. MoparInsiders.com sources hint that the Wagoneer … (read full article...)

tempImageBh3WGB.png
 

Mopar392

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
882
Reaction score
571
It has RR Velar’s vibe.
Wish it would be offered as ICE powered also.
 

patfromigh

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
Messages
1,206
Reaction score
1,197
Location
Frostbite Falls, MN
I was thinking about Ram Truck's Super Bowl ad from last year about premature electrification. Will the new battery electric Stellantis products be able to satisfy insurance companies when it comes to repair costs? Insane 0 to 60 times and 600 horsepower won't win them any favors, but I'm only talking about minor damage costs. How much robustness will the S have, since it is a Jeep? There was a story recently about someone who ran over a muffler that fell off the vehicle in front of them. There was a small dent in the battery case and the battery pack replacement cost was more than the car was worth. Hertz was caught by surprise with the repair costs of their Tesla cars. Despite being electric, can this new Jeep tackle a gravel or dirt road? I'm hoping some real Jeepness can be found on the S.

I like the styling, but I worry about the spoiler getting caught in a car wash.
 

Mopar392

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
882
Reaction score
571
There was a report related to insurance and EV vehicles, where it stated the total-loss rate is high due to repair cost.
 

bill burke

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2020
Messages
811
Reaction score
729
Great idea, a mid size Wagoneer. Disastrous idea, all electric. Bottom line, just another unreliable electric paper weight flooding the market from so many brands that is NOT in fact, a viable, profitable product in an overcrowded market and more paper weights will only exacerbate the situation. Jeep better come up with an ICE and hybrid option or this Jeep will be DOA. If the platform mate spin off Cherokee has the engineering in place, it better, to offer these two options, than get that in this Wagoneer before you embarrass Jeep and Jeep sales and electric inventory get worse than they are trending now. That’s “down” and “gloated” by the way folks. “Gas or Die” is the reality. Could be a winner if Jeep management does what they did with the Avenger and admit they were wrong and build what people want. Gas or Die. Mia Cuppa time Jeep.
 

MoparRay

Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
31
Reaction score
27
Stellantis needs to give Dodge and Chrysler a full line up of affordable vehicles. Jeep has way too many products and there all over the place. They need a American executive running American operations.
 

TripleT

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
2,722
Reaction score
2,916
Stellantis needs to give Dodge and Chrysler a full line up of affordable vehicles. Jeep has way too many products and there all over the place. They need a American executive running American operations.
Yeah, Brillant lets compete with the Koreans and eventually the Chinese. Let have redundant vehicles on the same lot. Sounds like a recipe for bankruptcy but you do you.
 

patfromigh

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
Messages
1,206
Reaction score
1,197
Location
Frostbite Falls, MN
The question I'm trying to bring up is this. Will Stellantis learn from the mistakes from others? FCA was unique in all of last decades California compliance cars. The first Fiat 500e was treated as both an R&D project and a production run up. When the next generation arrived, the production was vastly streamlined and the car was designed around the battery electric power. Yet the new Fiat 500e retains many of the features of its previous generation; front drive , simple controls, and the battery design.

The challenges to EV adoption are:
1. Fire risk, the high voltage,and high power of the S increases the risk. Hopefully they will have a solution when production begins.
2. Repairability, if the designers have done their job correctly, there will be some robustness in the vehicle. The battery case will have better protection than other EVs.
3. Range anxiety, even if one cuts the warm weather range of the S n half, it is still well above the average commute in North America.
4. Charging anxiety, well that's a new one.😛 Battery electric vehicles aren't the only thing which perform poorly in frigid temperatures, their charging stations have even more problems. Stellantis is confronting this challenge with their Free-2-Move business unit along with building out a high-speed charging network with other automakers. Level-2 charging speeds and times can be as important as high-speed charging time in cold weather.
5. Sales, or lack of sales, the early adopters have already bought an EV. The Tesla brand's sales indicate our market was moving beyond the early adopters and reaching into the mass market. Sales of BEVs are now stalling as the issues previously listed now come to light. Now we know about the Wagoneer S and have a pretty good idea of what the Recon will be. The next Cherokee remains a mystery beyond we know what platform it will be built on and some solid clues of where it will be built. If the Cherokee has a decent sales volume, the S and Recon can have very low sales and still be viable using flex manufacturing. Low sales can be a good thing if a company is also building out a charging network to accompany the battery electric products in their lineup. One of the reasons for all the dead robots in Chicago last week is that Tesla has had great sales, but didn't build up their charging network to match. The Ram ProMaster EV is a sold out because a fleet can build their own charging station setup. Ram Commercial offers a lot of assistance to the customers for the effort.
 

redriderbob

Mopar Guru!
Staff member
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Messages
5,349
Reaction score
3,894
Location
Metro Detroit
Proportions of the Wagoneer S should be close to the next-gen Cherokee KM from what I hear. The Cherokee will get a HEV powertrain and BEV.
 

Mike201

Active member
Joined
Dec 13, 2020
Messages
146
Reaction score
87
Great idea, a mid size Wagoneer. Disastrous idea, all electric. Bottom line, just another unreliable electric paper weight flooding the market from so many brands that is NOT in fact, a viable, profitable product in an overcrowded market and more paper weights will only exacerbate the situation. Jeep better come up with an ICE and hybrid option or this Jeep will be DOA. If the platform mate spin off Cherokee has the engineering in place, it better, to offer these two options, than get that in this Wagoneer before you embarrass Jeep and Jeep sales and electric inventory get worse than they are trending now. That’s “down” and “gloated” by the way folks. “Gas or Die” is the reality. Could be a winner if Jeep management does what they did with the Avenger and admit they were wrong and build what people want. Gas or Die. Mia Cuppa time Jeep.
Bill I am sure they will sell a handful to a few liberals or tree huggers. Then the can drive around thinking they’d saved the world.
 

patfromigh

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
Messages
1,206
Reaction score
1,197
Location
Frostbite Falls, MN
The million Dollar question is, Will the next Cherokee be front or rear drive based? The STLA-L platform underpins the next Charger, which is expected to be rear drive based with the ICE power train. The next generation 8-speed will offer both a 48V mild hybrid and a high voltage plugin hybrid. We don't know which vehicles will receive which setup. The mild hybrid will be more of a hybrid.

The front drive based hybrid system remains a mystery. They let the Pacifica's e-Flite transmission grow long in the tooth. FCA never pursued adding man e-axle like Toyota has with there front drive hybrids. The other hybrid system for sale in North America is the one in the Alfa and Dodge Hornet. It is an e-axle bought from a supplier, but with a conventional automatic transmission.

We should expect the next Cherokee to be four cylinder only.
 

MotorMaven

New member
Joined
Nov 25, 2023
Messages
27
Reaction score
15
The question I'm trying to bring up is this. Will Stellantis learn from the mistakes from others? FCA was unique in all of last decades California compliance cars. The first Fiat 500e was treated as both an R&D project and a production run up. When the next generation arrived, the production was vastly streamlined and the car was designed around the battery electric power. Yet the new Fiat 500e retains many of the features of its previous generation; front drive , simple controls, and the battery design.

The challenges to EV adoption are:
1. Fire risk, the high voltage,and high power of the S increases the risk. Hopefully they will have a solution when production begins.
2. Repairability, if the designers have done their job correctly, there will be some robustness in the vehicle. The battery case will have better protection than other EVs.
3. Range anxiety, even if one cuts the warm weather range of the S n half, it is still well above the average commute in North America.
4. Charging anxiety, well that's a new one.😛 Battery electric vehicles aren't the only thing which perform poorly in frigid temperatures, their charging stations have even more problems. Stellantis is confronting this challenge with their Free-2-Move business unit along with building out a high-speed charging network with other automakers. Level-2 charging speeds and times can be as important as high-speed charging time in cold weather.
5. Sales, or lack of sales, the early adopters have already bought an EV. The Tesla brand's sales indicate our market was moving beyond the early adopters and reaching into the mass market. Sales of BEVs are now stalling as the issues previously listed now come to light. Now we know about the Wagoneer S and have a pretty good idea of what the Recon will be. The next Cherokee remains a mystery beyond we know what platform it will be built on and some solid clues of where it will be built. If the Cherokee has a decent sales volume, the S and Recon can have very low sales and still be viable using flex manufacturing. Low sales can be a good thing if a company is also building out a charging network to accompany the battery electric products in their lineup. One of the reasons for all the dead robots in Chicago last week is that Tesla has had great sales, but didn't build up their charging network to match. The Ram ProMaster EV is a sold out because a fleet can build their own charging station setup. Ram Commercial offers a lot of assistance to the customers for the effort.
EV sales aren’t “stalling.” Tesla just announced 38% YOY sales growth and the new Model 3 is both lower cost and better than not only the previous generation Model 3, but most sedans in its size class (including ICE cars).

Meanwhile, visit your local CDJR dealer, Ford dealer, GM store or Toyota store, and what do you see?

Acre after acre of unsold ICE vehicles, packed in like sardines, with high prices.

One of the biggest drivers of rapid growth in BEVs is the price of ICE cars. Someone seeking a sedan or a crossover from the U.S., Japanese or Korean brands gets a dreadful experience and checks out the electric competition — and is shocked to see that the more reliable and lower-cost-of-operation EV also often costs LESS than what legacy brands want for an old-school gas guzzler.
 

patfromigh

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
Messages
1,206
Reaction score
1,197
Location
Frostbite Falls, MN
EV sales aren’t “stalling.”
They are stalled. Just like our Model 3 which spent days plugged into a standard wall outlet because between the frigid temperatures and the crappy real world range, it didn't have enough juice to get to our level-2 charging stations on the next floor. Among all the BEVs which I babysit the Tesla is the worst. It has to have a very overpriced adapter to use a level-2 charging station, which often goes missing. I work for Brand-X, I don't work for Hertz. How's Hertz doing with their Teslas?
Tesla just announced 38% YOY sales growth ...
But they haven't upgraded their charging network at the same rate to compensate.
Meanwhile, visit your local CDJR dealer, Ford dealer, GM store or Toyota store, and what do you see? Acre after acre of unsold ICE vehicles, packed in like sardines, with high prices.
I only see unsold pickup trucks, and full-sized ones at that. Except at the Ford dealerships, they also have a bunch of their unsold inventory of F-150 Lightnings and Mock-e Mustangs. What Ford dealers don't have are Mavericks, especially the hybrid ones. There might be one or two fully loaded units with the EB four, but there is still a waiting list on the Maverick hybrid. Which leads me to what I see at the local Toyota dealer. Last year when I wanted to check out the new Prius, I stopped by on the way to work. Their new car lot was empty except for a couple of BZ4X models, and some used cars. When the new generation Prius came out I wanted to sit in one to see if I fit. They were sold out and had a waiting list. Today that dealer has Tundras stacking up on the lot, but many of the Toyota products still have waiting lists.
One of the biggest drivers of rapid growth in BEVs is the price of ICE cars.
False, the average price of EV is still significantly higher than that of an ICE vehicle.
Someone seeking a sedan or a crossover from the U.S., Japanese or Korean brands gets a dreadful experience and checks out the electric competition ...
False, the only brands not offering a BEV are from Stellantis and their dealers have offered dreadful experiences for decades. The electric competition for all the other brands is often in the same showroom. The demand for affordable ICE vehicles is such that some greedy dealers charge well over the sticker price. I'm including hybrids as an ICE vehicle, but the demand for hybrids is through the roof and buyers for those models will most likely encounter price gouging.
,,, shocked to see that the more reliable and lower-cost-of-operation EV also often costs LESS than what legacy brands want for an old-school gas guzzler.
False, Brick isn't just the name of a character from the play, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof . The story of the guy who totaled his electric car after running over a muffler went viral. High speed charging networks have higher rates leading to higher cost per mile when compared to that for ICE power using retail gas stations. Repair costs for battery electric vehicles are higher and now the insurance rates are through the roof. Does any brand still make an old school gas guzzler, many here still want one.

Liar, liar garage on fire. The Hertz guys are right next door. We know the truth about battery electric vehicles. We hear the customer complaints. We struggle when a dead Tesla blocks the parking ramp and we see the dead ones flat bedded back to the service areas.

You can BS the people in the stands, but you cannot BS the players on the field. Outside of the forums here on Mopar Insiders, there is a debate going on about to call what is presently happening with all this EV Kool-Aid test. We are hearing about the "dead robots" in Chicago stacking up at the charging stations, the fires increasing, the overhead chargers for transit busses exploding, and a garage full of electric school busses all charging together crippling the local power grid. Are these black swan events or not? Since in reality much of this stuff really is predictable, each occurrence isn't technically a black swan event. What do we call such happenings? My suggestion is call them green swan events.
 

TripleT

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
2,722
Reaction score
2,916
Nice summary of practical matter, but CARB states leadership goals have zero to do with practicality.

Tesla Y is number one selling SUV in the EU who are more advanced or regressive regulatorily
 
Last edited:

patfromigh

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
Messages
1,206
Reaction score
1,197
Location
Frostbite Falls, MN
I forgot to mention tax money is used to bribe people into buying an electric car. I would use the word reality instead of practicality.

The thing that bothers me the most about the EV mandates is that it will hurt the potential for EV growth more than helping the cause. Ignoring and then later demonizing the engineers who pointed out a better way forward will haunt the industry. In the end, it's the politicians and not the engineers leading the clown parade.
 

TripleT

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
2,722
Reaction score
2,916
I forgot to mention tax money is used to bribe people into buying an electric car. I would use the word reality instead of practicality.

The thing that bothers me the most about the EV mandates is that it will hurt the potential for EV growth more than helping the cause. Ignoring and then later demonizing the engineers who pointed out a better way forward will haunt the industry. In the end, it's the politicians and not the engineers leading the clown parade.
The Leader have set it, damn near unmovable at this point, the OEMs have no choice but respond to regulatory realities. Complaining about that with each model release will get tiresome. Pee in the wind is more productive.

In the end they don't care about the UAW workers, they don't care about the freedom of movement, they don't care about true environmental realities.

The latest wealth distribution and command control scheme associated with Energy use was set in the late 80s, it goes back the far while I freeze my ash off. Until there is real pain it will not be reversed.

You think freedom of movement is a issue, The next thing is Agriculture is environmental crime, couple million starving to death is the consequence of that nonsense. Marxism even in a green wrapper, will find it way back to the same result. Mass starvation.
 

patfromigh

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
Messages
1,206
Reaction score
1,197
Location
Frostbite Falls, MN
No. 1.5-liter HEV and BEV only
Is it safe to assume the 1.5 liter engine is the one from the GSE family? The European hybrid setup in the Fiat cars uses a Magna 7-speed dual clutch hybrid transmission with the 1.5 liter GSE. While that setup is only 48V, it has the electric motor built into the transmission. I don't know if that would cross the pond.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top