Next-Gen Durango Replacement, More Than Likely Won't Use Stealth Name

Stellantis held its highly anticipated dealer meeting in Las Vegas earlier this year, unveiling an exciting glimpse into the future of the industry as it makes strides toward electrification. Among the lineup of impressive vehicles showcased at the Stellantis Dealer Business, Meeting 2023 were the new Wagoneer S, Jeep® Recon, and Dodge Charger Daytona. However, … (read full article...)

 

[AlexB]

I said nothing about the truck market and they're dropping the 5.7 so you have no point. Those 5.7s are still wiping out cam lobes (mine is a 2014 300C). A light weight Hemi that has a 2 mpg improvement would keep it around now we have nothing. Wake up and quit living in 2009.

You living in either 2004 or 2014, not 2024 or 2034....
You original post made a boughs argument that Stellantis (formerly called FCA) some how "failed" due to engines from GM & Ford when everything else from Marketshare/Revenue/Profits say otherwise.
You also too drunk to get that factors of Fuel Economy + Fines from both Federal Government and States like California.

 

[TripleT]

You living in either 2004 or 2014, not 2024 or 2034....
You original post made a boughs argument that Stellantis (formerly called FCA) some how "failed" due to engines from GM & Ford when everything else from Marketshare/Revenue/Profits say otherwise.
You also too drunk to get that factors of Fuel Economy + Fines from both Federal Government and States like California.

Man I do love my Hemi. Gosh the sound it, the pull, the low end torque. OK OK the ticking is annoying. I understand people's passion, I also understand that it can blind people to reality. The Hemi has just aged out. Really has hit its maximum potential without popping heads like a Cousin Willys test lab.

And the fines. People are blind to them, and how much they will escalate to 2028 which is only 3 model years away. Barely enough time to transition capacities.

When you have a replacement engine that has a Production level potential of 1000hp, race versions 1500hp already ..... and all I hear is crying and whining it make me curious. How can people not be excited about? Because it doesn't have 2 heads... twice as much chance to pop one? I don't get it?

Jeez most the Hemi is marketing its not even a Hemi. We should be damn glad we are even getting an ICE engine.

 

[Mopar392]

The HEMI can be improved in both fuel efficiency and exhaust emissions. Why are we just washing our hands off of it?

Ford was able to continuously improve their Coyote V8’s.
GM is committing to keeping and developing their LT V8’s.

HEMI is capable of 1000+hp and still be street and CARB legal

 

[TripleT]

The HEMI can be improved in both fuel efficiency and exhaust emissions. Why are we just washing our hands off of it?

Ford was able to continuously improve their Coyote V8’s.
GM is committing to keeping and developing their LT V8’s.

HEMI is capable of 1000+hp and still be street and CARB legal

Nah not without a ground up .... they barely got the last call to pass durability testing. Ford and GM have already moved tons of volume from V8 to turbos and EVs. Dodges volume was V8s. The Hurricane potential just makes it hard to justify another revision of Hemi.

For super low volume like Ford will do, and there is NO future Camaro that isnt a 4 door CUV, would be to work with a corporate cousin to develop a version of their V8 but still you would be doing just to say V8 giving the potential of the Hurricane 6.

Mopar will make Hemi likely indefinitely do one can still do project cars, but the energy and money to get the modest improvements the juice isn't worth the squeeze as sad as it is.

I rather not see a neutered version to avoid the fines. Let it be a legend in our memories.

 

[Mopar392]

Ford and GM were smarter than FCA/Stellantis and slowly started downsizing their engines and rolling the electrified cars.
Could it be their European and American operations are better integrated?
They started and were able to improve their corporate average, while FCA/Stellantis kept their old powertrains without any major improvements.

I also love my HEMIs and I’m eager to see the potential of the Hurricane 6 on the next Challenger and Charger.

 

[patfromigh]

Nothing lasts forever and this is the third time a Hemi has left us. I still miss the big blocks but time marches on. There are some four cylinder hybrids on the market which are as fast of faster than Durango with a 5.7 liter Hemi.

Power trains which are not electrified will quickly become very rare. While pure battery electric vehicles may be stacking up cordwood this summer, hybrids are becoming very hot items. It used to be hybrids were hard to sell and prices kept low to move the things. Then while the old style Prius sales were falling drastically, Toyota sold more Hybrid versions of their RAV4 than Jeep did with its gas Cherokee competitor.

Before the socialists dictated this battery electric panacea to the masses, it was hybrids and plugin hybrids which were sold to satisfy CARB and CAFE requirements. In the recent past manufactures pushed hybrids sales by offering special incentives to fleets, offering hybrid power trains on lower line trims, and consumer rebates, all in effort to boost the sales numbers for CAFE. It was the SAE which laid out a road map for electrification not a government entity. It is the government entities that had different ideas and embraced this dystopian battery electric panacea. The SAE plan was based on reality, because engineers are hopelessly tied to a real physical world. However, the Socialists always win out in totalitarian regimes.

We now see hybrid options tied to higher trim levels. For the past few model years, for example, one could buy the plugin hybrid option on the Escape with base trim. Today the Escape plugin is its own separate high line trim. The Escape's regular hybrid option is now only available on higher line trims. There is a waiting list for the Ford hybrids despite the price increase. There is a waiting list for Toyota hybrids as well. I don't know how much the PHEV Pacifica trims play into that model's sales resurgence.

The next generation ZF eight speed transmission comes as a hybrid transmission as default. It has an electric motor/clutch setup in place of the torque converter. The ZF transmission in the hybrid Jeeps is the same design, but is an earlier generation. Production lines are being installed for this next generation hybrid transmission in both Kokomo and Gray Court. I don't know what the plans are for front drive based hybrids. The Compass and Renegade hybrids were never imported, while the eFlite hybrid system has never been used beyond the Pacifica.

Could it be their European and American operations are better integrated?

GM's European operations are now integrated into Stellantis. Ford uses VW tech in Europe. I sincerely hope whatever down sized engines the legacy Chrysler brands use will have better durability than the Ford Eco-Boost.

 

[TripleT]

Nothing lasts forever and this is the third time a Hemi has left us. I still miss the big blocks but time marches on. There are some four cylinder hybrids on the market which are as fast of faster than Durango with a 5.7 liter Hemi.

Power trains which are not electrified will quickly become very rare. While pure battery electric vehicles may be stacking up cordwood this summer, hybrids are becoming very hot items. It used to be hybrids were hard to sell and prices kept low to move the things. Then while the old style Prius sales were falling drastically, Toyota sold more Hybrid versions of their RAV4 than Jeep did with its gas Cherokee competitor.

Before the socialists dictated this battery electric panacea to the masses, it was hybrids and plugin hybrids which were sold to satisfy CARB and CAFE requirements. In the recent past manufactures pushed hybrids sales by offering special incentives to fleets, offering hybrid power trains on lower line trims, and consumer rebates, all in effort to boost the sales numbers for CAFE. It was the SAE which laid out a road map for electrification not a government entity. It is the government entities that had different ideas and embraced this dystopian battery electric panacea. The SAE plan was based on reality, because engineers are hopelessly tied to a real physical world. However, the Socialists always win out in totalitarian regimes.

We now see hybrid options tied to higher trim levels. For the past few model years, for example, one could buy the plugin hybrid option on the Escape with base trim. Today the Escape plugin is its own separate high line trim. The Escape's regular hybrid option is now only available on higher line trims. There is a waiting list for the Ford hybrids despite the price increase. There is a waiting list for Toyota hybrids as well. I don't know how much the PHEV Pacifica trims play into that model's sales resurgence.

The next generation ZF eight speed transmission comes as a hybrid transmission as default. It has an electric motor/clutch setup in place of the torque converter. The ZF transmission in the hybrid Jeeps is the same design, but is an earlier generation. Production lines are being installed for this next generation hybrid transmission in both Kokomo and Gray Court. I don't know what the plans are for front drive based hybrids. The Compass and Renegade hybrids were never imported, while the eFlite hybrid system has never been used beyond the Pacifica.


GM's European operations are now integrated into Stellantis. Ford uses VW tech in Europe. I sincerely hope whatever down sized engines the legacy Chrysler brands use will have better durability than the Ford Eco-Boost.

I hope it is the FCA engines not the PSA.

 

[Mopar392]

The way it’s going it’s legacy PSA engines and platforms. But we’ll have to wait and see how it’ll perform outside of Europe.
Legacy FCA is a lost hope in the C- and lower segments. They can’t keep a product more than generation cycle.

 

[TripleT]

Ford and GM were smarter than FCA/Stellantis and slowly started downsizing their engines and rolling the electrified cars.
Could it be their European and American operations are better integrated?
They started and were able to improve their corporate average, while FCA/Stellantis kept their old powertrains without any major improvements.

I also love my HEMIs and I’m eager to see the potential of the Hurricane 6 on the next Challenger and Charger.

Look people are losing their minds just because Hemi has been sent to pasture. I suppose the 2.0L should have been offered in more offering including the Charger and Challenger, but they can punt to the next model at this point. I wonder what the take rate would have been when the entire brand identity was wrapped around one powertrain.

Most of the EV offered by GM and Ford they have lost theirs rears on to this point. GM had to like buy back all the Bolts. So not sure SMARTIER applies.

The real volume is in the Pickup trucks and I think there is wisdom in the Hurrincane 6 over turbo V6 .... shame it just took so long.

 

[AlexB]

The way it’s going it’s legacy PSA engines and platforms. But we’ll have to wait and see how it’ll perform outside of Europe.
Legacy FCA is a lost hope in the C- and lower segments. They can’t keep a product more than generation cycle.

In Europe, Stellantis is not going to be sell Gasoline vehicles at that much longer.

 

[Mopar392]

Look people are losing their minds just because Hemi has been sent to pasture. I suppose the 2.0L should have been offered in more offering including the Charger and Challenger, but they can punt to the next model at this point. I wonder what the take rate would have been when the entire brand identity was wrapped around one powertrain.

Most of the EV offered by GM and Ford they have lost theirs rears on to this point. GM had to like buy back all the Bolts. So not sure SMARTIER applies.

The real volume is in the Pickup trucks and I think there is wisdom in the Hurrincane 6 over turbo V6 .... shame it just took so long.

Ford and GM are the best selling pickup trucks and large SUV. But in the opposite, they have and are offering multiple vehicles with high mpg and low emissions powered by 4 cylinders.
Yes they are still threatened by the upcoming EPA and CAFE regulations, but they are in better position than Stellantis and they don’t have to scramble to meet the regulations.
Ford and GM didn’t have the best offerings for EV and hybrids but at least they were continuously trying and improving a generation after generation while CDJR was only coming with an offering and then kill it as soon as they move to the next generation of the vehicle.
I have read somewhere that CDJR are in the worst position to comply with upcoming CAFE regulations.
Mustang and Camaro were offered with both a turbo 4 and a V6 on the base trims for a few years before they decided to eliminate the V6 when the turbo 4 was selling better and had better performance and efficiency.
Challenger and Charger could have done the same.

This brings us back to a point I was saying before, and I understand that Hurricane 6 would be better than the HEMI, but I would like to see them offered side by side in the refreshed Ram or the upcoming Challenger, Charger and Durango, similar to how they are doing it with the GW and how Ford is doing it with the F150. Though, the GW and F150 come with the V8 in the lower trims.

 

[AlexB]

Ford and GM are the best selling pickup trucks and large SUV. But in the opposite, they have and are offering multiple vehicles with high mpg and low emissions powered by 4 cylinders.
Yes they are still threatened by the upcoming EPA and CAFE regulations, but they are in better position than Stellantis and they don’t have to scramble to meet the regulations.
Ford and GM didn’t have the best offerings for EV and hybrids but at least they were continuously trying and improving a generation after generation while CDJR was only coming with an offering and then kill it as soon as they move to the next generation of the vehicle.
I have read somewhere that CDJR are in the worst position to comply with upcoming CAFE regulations.
Mustang and Camaro were offered with both a turbo 4 and a V6 on the base trims for a few years before they decided to eliminate the V6 when the turbo 4 was selling better and had better performance and efficiency.
Challenger and Charger could have done the same.

This brings us back to a point I was saying before, and I understand that Hurricane 6 would be better than the HEMI, but I would like to see them offered side by side in the refreshed Ram or the upcoming Challenger, Charger and Durango, similar to how they are doing it with the GW and how Ford is doing it with the F150. Though, the GW and F150 come with the V8 in the lower trims.

Since the bankruptcy & split from Dodge, RAM outperform GM & Ford in every growth metric possible.
Camaro was flop, and your "continuously trying and improving a generation after generation while CDJR was only coming with an offering and then kill it as soon as they" is whining about Dart/200 and other low-no margin stuff.
None of the stuff you mention meets the upcoming standards.

 

[Mopar392]

In term of selling volume, Ford and GM are still leading. There might be some quarters were Ram outsell GMC or Chevy.
Are you saying GM's and Ford's counterparts of Dart/200 were and are high margin.

 

[TripleT]

Ford and GM are the best selling pickup trucks and large SUV. But in the opposite, they have and are offering multiple vehicles with high mpg and low emissions powered by 4 cylinders.
Yes they are still threatened by the upcoming EPA and CAFE regulations, but they are in better position than Stellantis and they don’t have to scramble to meet the regulations.
Ford and GM didn’t have the best offerings for EV and hybrids but at least they were continuously trying and improving a generation after generation while CDJR was only coming with an offering and then kill it as soon as they move to the next generation of the vehicle.
I have read somewhere that CDJR are in the worst position to comply with upcoming CAFE regulations.
Mustang and Camaro were offered with both a turbo 4 and a V6 on the base trims for a few years before they decided to eliminate the V6 when the turbo 4 was selling better and had better performance and efficiency.
Challenger and Charger could have done the same.

This brings us back to a point I was saying before, and I understand that Hurricane 6 would be better than the HEMI, but I would like to see them offered side by side in the refreshed Ram or the upcoming Challenger, Charger and Durango, similar to how they are doing it with the GW and how Ford is doing it with the F150. Though, the GW and F150 come with the V8 in the lower trims.

Profound error to equate volume with success. Losing your as$ is not success. Like I said it would have been nice to offer the 2.0T but by the time the capacity came up and v6 wind down really to late to pay for certification.

And why do suppose that th4 5.7 won't be offered... there will be a cross over time in the RAM, but no they don't need to certify a dead powertrain in the new LB29 and LB49 .... what a useless spend.... Just pull the bandaid.

AND NO the Dart competitor were not profitable, GM and Ford scrambled to get rid of them.

 

[AlexB]

In term of selling volume, Ford and GM are still leading. There might be some quarters were Ram outsell GMC or Chevy.
Are you saying GM's and Ford's counterparts of Dart/200 were and are high margin.

"Some quarters"


RAM outsells GMC everyday, but that's besides the facts of you being confused about the those categories of 4-cylinders don't exist(margins) let trying to blame FCA/Stellantis for being smarter, and more profitable than the other Legacy Michigan Automakers.

 

[ScramFan]

"Some quarters"


RAM outsells GMC everyday, but that's besides the facts of you being confused about the those categories of 4-cylinders don't exist(margins) let trying to blame FCA/Stellantis for being smarter, and more profitable than the other Legacy Michigan Automakers.

It seems that FCA and now Stellantis learned more from the last bankruptcy cycle than their Michigan contemporaries.

My guess is they are not eager to repeat the mistakes of the past by focusing on negative margin products.

I think FCA/Stellantis has wisely chosen to delay new product in order to help manage the cost of their latest platform/energy consolidation plan. I also think the UAW contracts being up for negotiation played a role in delaying products.

While I would have loved to have new models to consider, I can't fault them for not risking another bankruptcy.

I just hope that these next generation products are market leaders.

 

[TripleT]

I feel like a failure that I have not been able explain Capacity well enough to people. GM and FORD have to make vehicles because they have so much capacity and fixed costs. This reality it is often is a boat anchor not something to boast about.

Yes GM and Ford outsell FCA because they must. Fortunately for FCA extra capacity had already been shed in the multiple near-death experiences.... some point one has to get off the train.