New EVs

[srm3500]

Stellantis (FCA US) Set To Release Onslaught Of EVs Starting This Year

As Stellantis moves forward with its plan to produce an extensive portfolio of electric vehicles (EVs) for the markets in the United States and Canada, we figured it would be beneficial to take a detailed look at the overall timeline of these new EVs and to identify when we can expect them to be...

moparinsiders.com

So regarding this news if the time line is that close why haven't we seen testers out yet? I know they can hide for now in older models but at some point soon they have to get the actual new ones
on the road to test like the jeeps and the charger/challenger are what less that a year (supposedly) from being on dealer lots don't they?

 

[patfromigh]

The ProMaster EV and Fiat 500e have been seen running around different places. They don't need to be camouflaged. The other stuff is probably well covered.

 

[TripleT]

 

[patfromigh]

Fourth? What are the first three? I don't think they're counting the DJ-E postal Jeep. They have the Avenger, but I don't see anything else available to the public in the catalog, at this moment. Perhaps I'm reading it wrong and Jeep means four vehicles which are coming by 2025.

1. Avenger
2. Wagoneer S (Whatever it's finally called)
3. Recon
4. ? I'm guessing the full size Wagoneer sitting on the Ram REV chassis and sharing the same power train parts.

 

[TripleT]

Yeah IDK what this model is. Avenger is Outside NA and too small, Recon, and WagoneerS.... So what is the forth? Just the Cherokee EV?

 

[AlexB]

Fourth? What are the first three? I don't think they're counting the DJ-E postal Jeep. They have the Avenger, but I don't see anything else available to the public in the catalog, at this moment. Perhaps I'm reading it wrong and Jeep means four vehicles which are coming by 2025.

1. Avenger
2. Wagoneer S (Whatever it's finally called)
3. Recon
4. ? I'm guessing the full size Wagoneer sitting on the Ram REV chassis and sharing the same power train parts.

View attachment 8209

Wrangler EV?

 

[AlexB]

Trying to figure this out:
FIAT brand
*FIAT 500 BEV
RAM brand
*RAM Promaster BEV
*RAM REV 1500
Dodge brand
*Charger BEV
*Challanger BEV
Jeep brand
*Wagoneer S
* Recon
???

That’s 7. As of today Stellantis says eight BEV models by the end of 2024 in North America:

 

[patfromigh]

Don't forget the Chrysler Airflow, that would be the eighth. (Unless it's later.)

I'm wondering if the Fiat 500e will be the only Fiat model or if we will get the four door version (600?) also. I know the Jeep Avenger is too small for North America, but the Fiat four door would be acceptable for our market. I'm totally blown away by how popular the small EVs we rent out are. We have the Nissan Leaf, Hyundai Kona and Kia Niro battery electrics. Business travelers love them because we give them a fully charged vehicle and we eat the charging cost. Most of the local business journeys are less than the battery range. Cheap ICE powered econoboxes are pretty much dead. There will either be small EVs or ICE powered crossovers at the entry level in the future, IMO. It is also my opinion that large battery electrics like the Hummer will flop due to their inefficiencies.

 

[TripleT]

not unless the covered car is a decoy. I would have guess Wagoneer but that not a wagoneer either

Wrangler EV?

 

[Deckard Cain]

Would've loved a more detailed roadmap of the EVs coming to Europe on the new platforms.

 

[TripleT]

Minivan EV should be in the cards

 

[jorisr]

At the end of 2024 there should be:
Ram ProMaster EV (2023)
Ram 1500 REV (2024)
Fiat 500e (2024)
Maserati GranTurismo (2023)
Maserati Grecale (2024)
Jeep Recon (2024)
Jeep Wagoneer S (2024)
Dodge EV (2024)

 

[CloversPlusCats]

At the end of 2024 there should be:
Ram ProMaster EV (2023)
Ram 1500 REV (2024)
Fiat 500e (2024)
Maserati GranTurismo (2023)
Maserati Grecale (2024)
Jeep Recon (2024)
Jeep Wagoneer S (2024)
Dodge EV (2024)

This seems about correct. They relayed this information last sales report but it wasn't really touched on anywhere.
There's just gonna be a Charger for now, don't expect the next thing from Dodge to be revealed until maybe a year after that.

 

[CloversPlusCats]

Don't forget the Chrysler Airflow, that would be the eighth. (Unless it's later.)

Whatever becomes of it might be revealed in 2024 but it won't come to market until 2025 so for sure not counted.

I'm wondering if the Fiat 500e will be the only Fiat model or if we will get the four door version (600?)

Just the 500e for probably the next few years, and that's if they change their US plans by then.
For a refresher, instead of competing in the mainstream or lower, they're kinda positioned as if they are in between Chrysler and Alfa this time around because of the new models premium positioning. The 500e will be more costly to obtain to make up for some losses they get when trying one more time with Fiat here, so it's not gonna be the budget Stellantis BEV that Americans would need while Chevy is pulling out of the sub 30k market for them.

also. I know the Jeep Avenger is too small for North America, but the Fiat four door would be acceptable for our market. I'm totally blown away by how popular the small EVs we rent out are. We have the Nissan Leaf, Hyundai Kona and Kia Niro battery electrics. Business travelers love them because we give them a fully charged vehicle and we eat the charging cost. Most of the local business journeys are less than the battery range. Cheap ICE powered econoboxes are pretty much dead. There will either be small EVs or ICE powered crossovers at the entry level in the future, IMO.

Small, entry level EVs is Europe's future. As it seems, Hyundai are the only ones at the moment with sense for the foreseeable future to sell battery electric product that's cheap enough, small enough, and still good for Americans, but even that's a little above $30k
Chevrolet? Pulling out of the B segment EV market here and might not return until 2027 with Hondas help
Nissan? Leaf is on borrowed time without a successor in sight for our shores.
Tesla probably doesn't show up with anything until after 2025.
Fisker is coming out with an inexpensive offering of it's own, but we need to see how the Ocean does first to see if they'll still be a viable company next year.

When you count the tax credit and look at the Equinox EV compared to the Bolt, the cost of entry raised from the high $10k range, now not that far from the mid 20k range. Meanwhile it's raining inexpensive options in China and I can assume Europe.

It is also my opinion that large battery electrics like the Hummer will flop due to their inefficiencies.

Will a rich clientele have anything to say about that?

 

[jorisr]

Would've loved a more detailed roadmap of the EVs coming to Europe on the new platform

A lot is pretty well known (i´m leaving out the refreshes):
Fiat "600" (B-UV) (2023/2024/sister of Jeep Avenger/Poland)
Fiat "Punto"(B-hatch) (2024/sister of next gen Citroen C3/Serbia)
Fiat "Multipla" (C-UV) (2025/Turkey)
Fiat "Panda" B-UV (2026/ also next-gen Brazilian Fiat Argo)
Jeep Avenger (2023/Poland)
Jeep "Compass" (2024/2025 STLA Medium/Italy)
Jeep Recon (2025 STLA Large/Mexico)
Jeep "Wagoneer S" (2025 STLA Large/Mexico)
Jeep "Renegade" (2026 STLA Small/Spain)
Maserati GranTurismo (2023)
Maserati Grecale (2024)
Maserati MC20 (2024/2025)
Maserati "Quattroporte" (2024/2025)
Maserati "Levante" (2025/2026)
Lancia Ypsilon B-hatch (2024 e-CMP)
Lancia Gamma D-UV (2026 STLA Medium/Italy)
Lancia Delta C-? (2028 STLA Medium)
Alfa Romeo B-UV (2024 Sister of Jeep Avenger/Poland)
Alfa Romeo "Stelvio" (2025 STLA Large/Italy)
Alfa Romeo "Giulia" (2026 STLA Large/Italy)
Alfa Romeo E-UV (2027 STLA Large)
Citroën "C3" (2023 sister of Fiat B-hatch)
Citroën "C3 Aircross" (2024 sister of Opel B-uv)
Citroën "C5 Aircross" (2025 STLA Medium)
Peugeot 308 (2023)
Peugeot 308 SW (2023)
Peugeot 408 (2024)
Peugeot 3008 (2024 STLA Medium)
Peugeot 5008 (2025 STLA Medium)
Opel Astra (2023)
Opel Astra Sports Tourer (2023)
Opel Crossland (2024 sister of Citroën "C3 Aircross")
Opel "Astra Cross" (2024 sister of Peugeot 408)
Opel Manta (2025 STLA Medium)
DS 4 (2023/2024)
DS 8 (2024 STLA Medium)
DS 7 (2025 STLA Medium)
DS 3 (2026 STLA Small)

 

[Deckard Cain]

A lot is pretty well known (i´m leaving out the refreshes):
Fiat "600" (B-UV) (2023/2024/sister of Jeep Avenger/Poland)
Fiat "Punto"(B-hatch) (2024/sister of next gen Citroen C3/Serbia)
Fiat "Multipla" (C-UV) (2025/Turkey)
Fiat "Panda" B-UV (2026/ also next-gen Brazilian Fiat Argo)
Jeep Avenger (2023/Poland)
Jeep "Compass" (2024/2025 STLA Medium/Italy)
Jeep Recon (2025 STLA Large/Mexico)
Jeep "Wagoneer S" (2025 STLA Large/Mexico)
Jeep "Renegade" (2026 STLA Small/Spain)
Maserati GranTurismo (2023)
Maserati Grecale (2024)
Maserati MC20 (2024/2025)
Maserati "Quattroporte" (2024/2025)
Maserati "Levante" (2025/2026)
Lancia Ypsilon B-hatch (2024 e-CMP)
Lancia Gamma D-UV (2026 STLA Medium/Italy)
Lancia Delta C-? (2028 STLA Medium)
Alfa Romeo B-UV (2024 Sister of Jeep Avenger/Poland)
Alfa Romeo "Stelvio" (2025 STLA Large/Italy)
Alfa Romeo "Giulia" (2026 STLA Large/Italy)
Alfa Romeo E-UV (2027 STLA Large)
Citroën "C3" (2023 sister of Fiat B-hatch)
Citroën "C3 Aircross" (2024 sister of Opel B-uv)
Citroën "C5 Aircross" (2025 STLA Medium)
Peugeot 308 (2023)
Peugeot 308 SW (2023)
Peugeot 408 (2024)
Peugeot 3008 (2024 STLA Medium)
Peugeot 5008 (2025 STLA Medium)
Opel Astra (2023)
Opel Astra Sports Tourer (2023)
Opel Crossland (2024 sister of Citroën "C3 Aircross")
Opel "Astra Cross" (2024 sister of Peugeot 408)
Opel Manta (2025 STLA Medium)
DS 4 (2023/2024)
DS 8 (2024 STLA Medium)
DS 7 (2025 STLA Medium)
DS 3 (2026 STLA Small)

It wouldn't have cost them to put a slide in the presentation with that information.

 

[patfromigh]

Will a rich clientele have anything to say about that?

Yes a couple did, both of them in the first quarter of 2023. A quote from the Detroit Free Press:
"For the quarter, GM sold 20,670 EVs, 19,700 of which were the Bolt and Bolt EUV. But GM delivered two Hummer pickups and 968 of the Cadillac Lyriq SUVs − both of which use the automaker's new Ultium propulsion system."

GM seems to go through strategies like most people go through socks, constantly changing. The EV1 was born obsolete and deserved its short life. The Volt and the "Voltec" engineering effort was just getting started. That program had much promise. The Bolt, now it seems, is a flash in the pan. (I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist using this pun.) One of the reasons for the Bolt's demise is the falling out with the primary supplier, LG.

The growing sales trend is in the entry level, if Stellantis and the Fiat-USA managers miss that fact, the brand is doomed in North America. Fiat can have some premium offerings such as the Abarth model, but meanwhile a Corolla Hybrid is well under $30,000 and is sold out. Fiat needs an affordable EV. Toyota can put together a Corolla PHEV for under $30,000 if they can line up the suppliers. Will competing brands to the Chevy Bolt accept this GM gift of a market void?

Meanwhile there is another Stellantis brand we don't discuss that much which is also offering an EV in the US. From the Stellantis website:
"Free2move, as part of Stellantis Dare Forward 2030 plans, is supporting the transition toward electrification. The group is committed to meeting their shared objective of becoming carbon net-zero by 2038. At CES, Free2move will be showcasing the Fiat 500e, an iconic object of urban mobility, as a testament to the affordable, sustainable, fashionable, and functional future of Free2move mobility. The group envisions this as the new flagship offering for Free2move free floating and subscription car services across the U.S. and Europe, as part of their mission to make EVs more accessible. For the B2B customers, Free2move is equally as dedicated to their VaaS (Vehicle as a Service) model: from fleet purchase to management."

 

[CloversPlusCats]

Yes a couple did, both of them in the first quarter of 2023. A quote from the Detroit Free Press:
"For the quarter, GM sold 20,670 EVs, 19,700 of which were the Bolt and Bolt EUV. But GM delivered two Hummer pickups and 968 of the Cadillac Lyriq SUVs − both of which use the automaker's new Ultium propulsion system."

Wasn't this because of production issues? But the near 1,000 sold all in all still looks upsetting. I bet the Bolt (both of them) sales will skyrocket though.

The growing sales trend is in the entry level, if Stellantis and the Fiat-USA managers miss that fact, the brand is doomed in North America. Fiat can have some premium offerings such as the Abarth model, but meanwhile a Corolla Hybrid is well under $30,000 and is sold out. Fiat needs an affordable EV. Toyota can put together a Corolla PHEV for under $30,000 if they can line up the suppliers. Will competing brands to the Chevy Bolt accept this GM gift of a market void?

Doubt it.
Barely any automaker in the US wants to a do a B segment or lower battery electric for us and it's just disappointing.
We don't know how much these Fiats will cost to own when they launch on our side of the pond, but it's probably a good opportunity for them to look closer into their "these won't be cheap" plans and at least make them low $30k range, although with the 10k sales a year plan for the US, I doubt it would work out well when they already have high demand elsewhere.

Meanwhile there is another Stellantis brand we don't discuss that much which is also offering an EV in the US. From the Stellantis website:
"Free2move, as part of Stellantis Dare Forward 2030 plans, is supporting the transition toward electrification. The group is committed to meeting their shared objective of becoming carbon net-zero by 2038. At CES, Free2move will be showcasing the Fiat 500e, an iconic object of urban mobility, as a testament to the affordable, sustainable, fashionable, and functional future of Free2move mobility. The group envisions this as the new flagship offering for Free2move free floating and subscription car services across the U.S. and Europe, as part of their mission to make EVs more accessible. For the B2B customers, Free2move is equally as dedicated to their VaaS (Vehicle as a Service) model: from fleet purchase to management."

I remember that the Ami from Citroën was originally supposed to come to the US as a Free2move offering only. When Fiats next move for us was decided then I guess they scrapped the plans. Imagine seeing those things on US interstates.

 

[CloversPlusCats]

*Weirds everyone in America out with our French-ness*

 

[Deckard Cain]

The 500e should have a reasonable price in the US. But for that it'll need to be included in the $7500 tax incentive. Otherwise, it won't be relevant.