Mopar Insiders Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

LAST ROAR: 2023 Dodge Charger and Challenger Mopar '23

We’re just a few weeks away from the conclusion of the current-generation Dodge Charger and Challenger production. For those seeking a piece of the “last call” models, several special edition models remain. However, for those in pursuit of something rare, there’s the 2023 Dodge Charger and Challenger Mopar ’23 Edition. Based on the Challenger and … (read full article...)


a89eceb410e45350a4c531683f310036x.jpeg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

vbondjr1

Active member
Joined
Feb 14, 2021
Messages
155
Reaction score
91
While this may be the last "roar" of the pushrod V8 engines, the future of Mopar performance is looking to still be quite amazing and quite loud in every way possible. I'm looking at what Stellantis did with this next generation Ram 1500 and I'm wondering just what exactly will be done with this next generation Charger muscle car and what will offer some connection between the next gen vehicles and what we currently have today. Will there be systems in the new BEV variants that have a 3.6L generator under the hood for charging the car while the wheels are powered by single-motor, dual-motor and tri-motor EV setups? Would that 3.6L "generator" also generate heat for the HVAC system to operate, while also assisting in thermal management for the battery systems? We've pretty much seen the information now that the Daytona Charger trims will come with a base 403hp single motor package, a 663hp dual motor setup on the 400V system (pretty close to what the 500KW "Stage-2 kit" was supposed to have) and an 885hp dual motor 800V Banshee system. By now, we pretty much all know that EVs are typically faster than their ICE counterparts by a considerable margin. If a Sub-600hp Kia EV6 GT can outperform an 807hp Challenger Black Ghost, it's safe to think that the 403hp base model Daytona would have the performance number rivaling a Scat Pack 392 and possibly closer to what the 540hp Hurricane I-6 will offer. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the 885hp Banshee is capable of equaling the performance of the CD170 if not outright beating it, even before a Direct Connection Stage-1 or Stage-2 kit is added.
Aside from the departure of the Hemi V8s and the addition of Hurricane I-6 Turbo powertrains and the next gen ZF 8hp electrified hybrid transmission, what is it really that this next-gen muscle car is going to bring us and will there still be any connection to what we have now? Again, looking at what Stellantis did with the Ram 1500, the truck took an evolutionary approach to a revolutionary design. It seems this vehicle is going to do it's best to blend all of the attributes of both the Challenger and Charger and put them into one vehicle that is more capable than what either of the current to vehicles are right now. The car looks to have the same amount of interior passenger room as a Charger even with only having two doors and while the concept doesn't show it, hopefully this next generation Charger remains faithful to the scalloped door pannels. We already see the car will receive alot of the '68-'70 body lines but hopefully Dodge will do something to differentiate the Charger from the Challenger when it comes to the headlamp design and maybe incorporate it's own version of what GM did with the Camaro's headlights to not make the front end look like a revised Challenger. We may even see the lower part of the front fascia get a bit more of the treatment of whatever that red car was that Tim Kuniskis was standing next to in the EV day presentation. The concept already has 300mm+ sized tires on it without the addition of fender flares so we know its handling abilities (especially with AWD) should be on par with vehicles such as the Dark Horse Mustang/Mach 1, Shelby GT350/500 and the 1LE/Z28/ZL1 Camaros. Something the next-gen Mopar muscle machine definitely needs.
With the EPA pushing Stellantis to move forward cleaner (read: smaller more European-Japanese type) engines and Stellantis trying to still retain its footing in America as a Muscle Brand with Dodge & Ram, they pushed the Mopar brands into doing what they do best, making giant killers with small displacement engines. With the 420hp & 510-540hp 3.0L Hurricane Twin turbo I-6 engines producing 6.1L & 6.4L beating power while running cleaner than the V8 engines their replacing, This next-gen Charger seems to be everything we already have in our muscle cars and more. But even with that, there is still more. Again, with Stellantis really trying to push forward with electrification, to avoid having to get credits from Tesla and paying hefty fines, It only seems logical that the electrified ZF 8HP transmission will make its way into this car at some point in time behind either one or both variants of the Hurricane-6 engine, effectively electrifying the entire Charger lineup. The new Gen-4 8HP is designed with the moniker of "hybrid as standard" with different levels of hybridization from mild to PHEV setups. And even with the electronics, it is slated to be slightly lighter than the Gen-3 while adding anywhere from 24 to 160 kilowatts of peak electric performance. Converting that to horsepower that's an additional 32 to 215hp while developing up to 450nm of torque (332lb-ft). You take something like that in a "push to pass system" or in full race mode mated to an already potent hurricane engine in either Standard output or whatever variation of high output system may grace this next car, add a bit of CD170 fuel tuning and things like that and you start to see just what kind of performance this next generation Charger is capable of. Add in the fact of this new car having a rear biased AWD system, the car begins to look that much more appealing when it comes to performance. While the ZF Gen-4 8HP transmission adds supercharged V8 levels of torque in the low end and for passing and things like that which effective makes the transmission become an actual power adder in a similar manner that a forced induction system would, the environmental flip side is that the car can be run in pure EV mode for a decent distances (I think I read somewhere like 25-miles or so) and more than likely will have regenerative systems powered by the gasoline engine. Granted it takes away from Dodge being that last remaining symbol of the good old days, but it allows them to continue on with performance.
I think one of my concerns with this next gen Charger, is what level of modifications will be available for this vehicle and how much will Direct Connection have to support this new vehicle. It's no secret that manufacturers are doing their best to lock PCMs and all of that stuff (Ford did the same thing with the current gen mustang) so if that is truly the case and it's what they want to do, my question is to these manufacturers is what are you going to offer for the people out here that want to modify their vehicles? Headers are no longer an option being that the exhaust manifolds are integrated into the heads of these new engines and with emissions restrictions being what they are, what will Direct Connection bring to the table? There are companies out there such as Garrett that make bolt in 50-state emissions legal upgraded turbochargers and intercoolers and other supporting modifications that go with them. Direct Connection already offers cold air intakes, tunes and exhaust systems for the Hemi cars and hopefully we will see Direct Connection bring out some decent products for this new car such as resonated equal length 3" Borla exhaust systems with switchfire and polyphonic technology in Touring, S-Type and ATAK sound levels. Focusing on the tuning aspect for just a moment, outside of the fact that Turbo cars respond well to tuning, there are groups of people out there that love "Ghost Cam" tunes and "Burble" tunes. Offering a Direct Connection "Cam & burble" tune that offers the sound of a mild cam along with acceptable level of burble and pop to the exhaust might not actually be a bad thing with a tune that can add anywhere from 15-30hp depending on the stage kit and setup. Direct Connection truly needs to be all over this car with everything including suspension upgrades and another big thing, styling upgrades. When the Challenger, Charger and 300 first returned to the scene, they had optional Kicker Stereo systems with subwoofers and speakers which then went to Beats. Things like that need to make a return to this next-gen car along with optional lighting upgrades, and both interior and exterior styling modifications. There definitely needs to be more available wheel options for the next car but one thing that the aftermarket scene is big on now is wrapping and different colored wheels. This is another aspect where Direct Connection could make a ton of profit with both their EVs and ICE/hybrid vehicles. A partnership with a company like Vicrez could seriously be beneficial to Direct Connection in the cosmetics department with upgraded steering wheels, aero parts and wraps & graphics. Instead of trying to cut out the aftermarket, find ones that are making quality products and that are influential in the environment that your products are being sold in and make them an asset. It just makes sense. Same thing with the EV Charger Daytona cars. Whatever upgrades to the Power Management Systems that are planned by Direct Connection should also go along with styling and chassis/suspension options and styling options as well.
With what is one the table in terms of performance with the Hurricane/Hurricane Hybrid & EV systems with Fraztonic exterior sound systems, I don't think that this is Mopar's last roar, even if it is the V8's swan song. While it may be trading in it's vicious tiger-like V8 roar for the smoother, more subdued roar of a lion with a new Inline-6 twin turbo, This next Generation Charger has the potential to still retain it's crown as king of the concrete jungle, by becoming a smarter, healthier, more agile and technical fighter that is able to use it's power more effectively than before. Either way, we may still have a muscle car that we can connect with and even though it's more Grand National than Big Block Hemi, I think we can still consider this next Charger a Muscle car and learn to appreciate the "roar" of the upcoming King.
 

MPE426HEMI

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2020
Messages
75
Reaction score
45
Location
Canada
Sad to see it all go. If they are going all in on electric (which is a huge mistake BTW) they may as well as fold because Tesla has kicked everyone’s @ss in cars & trucks in that area. If I were going to buy one, It would certainly be a Tesla, not anything from CDJR.
The pentastar 3.6L generator is a laugh. What’s the GD point? Put a 5.7 HEMI in it for a generator sure! That’s not anyone’s sensible idea of a hybrid, that’s a brain fart! That will bite them in the @ss for years to come.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top