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How many Americans do you see in this group?

Bili said:
I don't know who can be happy with the decisions made by Carlos 2nd Le Cost Cutter unless he or she has Stellantis shares.
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He would rather drive it into the ground that admit he was wrong
 
lets face it, when Chrysler discontinue their economy cars if favor of making fast bucks with the gas hogs the writing was on the wall ! Not plan B, the PT Cruiser, Neon, Chrysler 200, not refined. Better to make a CAFE preforming vehicles at a lower profit than pay fines or have to buy carbon credits !
Back in 1979-80 when the gas crunch hit Chrysler was caught in that trap, my plant Mound Rd engine, home of the 318 and 360 was shut down and never reopened. That plant was raised to the ground to stop the city of Detroit tax sharks. And Chrysler had to be bailed out, as we all know. Too bad that lesson was never remembered !
 
cygnus said:
JNAP2 was greenlit by Sergio. WTAP renovation happened under Sergio. Ram 1500 @ SHAP happened under Sergio.

Sergio had his faults (Alfa/Fiat) for sure, but things boomed under his watch - Erik & Dave @ Allpar and anyone else who aligns to their stupidity are idiots for thinking otherwise.
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WTAP renovation, and the Wagoneer program approval, happened after Sergio passed.

Manley had the program approved within 6 months of taking charge.

Sergio delayed the Wagoneer for YEARS prior.

JNAP2 was a Sergio decision. The combining of supplier logistics and rail transportation made that business case viable on paper vs a corn field. Logistics costs often tip the business case scales.
 
scatpack_69 said:
You’re still swinging and missing pal
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The only people that are missing are the people defending the current leadership and decisions / product that have been made since about 2021. It's been an absolute disaster.

The Tonale / Hornet have been a failure. Mandating an I6 instead of the 6.4L in the Wagoneer has been a failure. Not pairing an upgraded mild-hybrid with the 5.7L or 6.4L in time for the mid-cycle action next model year - failure. WL pricing - failure. 2L in 2025 WL instead of upgrading or bringing back and refreshing the 3.2 and pairing it with a mild hybrid - failure. Styling on Wagoneer - failure. Ralph whiffed big time on that one. I remember he was explaining the interior field of view advantages WS had - well congratulations, your vertical B, C, D pillars make the damn thing look like a fork.

Using CAFE as an excuse for everything - how's that working out for Stellantis? Dictating to Customers that you will buy small displacement engines and pay the same price - how's that working out for Stellantis?

Look at the sales charts for the answer.

Less than a quarter of current Dodge/Jeep owners are interested in EVs. Stop investing in things your Customers DONT WANT.

There will not be a third Lazarus moment for Chrysler. I think this will frankly be the last time.
 
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I think the best case at this point is Mate Rimac takes control of Dodge and Plymouth, he knows how to run them proper. You'll see a hemi cuda like you cant imagine, and a roadrunner and a challenger and a charger.. VW gave him 60% of Bugatti for a 20% share in his car company, now he needs volume brands that are also BAD ASS. The French will sell Dodge and Plymouth for pennies right now, all they want is Ram and Jeep, mostly Jeep, if he barters enough he could get Ram. Then the French F-off and Mopar-Rimac succeeds to become a dominant force car company from mild to wild, globally
 
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The Recon and Wagoneer S and guaranteed flops. There's no business case for a $70K D-segment SUV. Styling the on the Recon is ugly.

Now if you did an Grand Cherokee L E-segment series hybrid SUV - now we're talking.

I have heard whispers that Ford is going series hybrid with the next Explorer. All it needs is 75 miles of EV range to be classified as an EV. So give it a battery big enough + generator + gas tank to do that. Yes, it is a ton of packaging but look at what people are writing on Facebook and Instagram for the Ramcharger. It's the only product people are excited for. The problem is it's going to be very expensive.
 
cygnus said:
The only people that are missing are the people defending the current leadership and decisions / product that have been made since about 2021. It's been an absolute disaster.

The Tonale / Hornet have been a failure. Mandating an I6 instead of the 6.4L in the Wagoneer has been a failure. Not pairing an upgraded mild-hybrid with the 5.7L or 6.4L in time for the mid-cycle action next model year - failure. WL pricing - failure. 2L in 2025 WL instead of upgrading or bringing back and refreshing the 3.2 and pairing it with a mild hybrid - failure. Styling on Wagoneer - failure. Ralph whiffed big time on that one. I remember he was explaining the interior field of view advantages WS had - well congratulations, your vertical B, C, D pillars make the damn thing look like a fork.

Using CAFE as an excuse for everything - how's that working out for Stellantis? Dictating to Customers that you will buy small displacement engines and pay the same price - how's that working out for Stellantis?

Look at the sales charts for the answer.

Less than a quarter of current Dodge/Jeep owners are interested in EVs. Stop investing in things your Customers DONT WANT.

There will not be a third Lazarus moment for Chrysler. I think this will frankly be the last time.
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100%.
 
cygnus said:
The Recon and Wagoneer S and guaranteed flops. There's no business case for a $70K D-segment SUV. Styling the on the Recon is ugly.

Now if you did an Grand Cherokee L E-segment series hybrid SUV - now we're talking.

I have heard whispers that Ford is going series hybrid with the next Explorer. All it needs is 75 miles of EV range to be classified as an EV. So give it a battery big enough + generator + gas tank to do that. Yes, it is a ton of packaging but look at what people are writing on Facebook and Instagram for the Ramcharger. It's the only product people are excited for. The problem is it's going to be very expensive.
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I actually love the design on both the Wagoneer S and Recon now we all know the platform can accept ICE Engines and If the Recon does get a ICE Engine they will have a sales hit on their hands but I have a feeling the Recon won't because it would cannibalize sales from the Wrangler. I will stay away from the politics side of Stellantis deal. I will just sit back and eat my popcorn and enjoy the show LOL !!!!
 
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