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FCA and Renault are in "advance" talks to partner,with CTC having more power than all of Nissan

Mopar426 said:
What diversification do they need? They literally have everything already.

Electric cars that don't make money????

They have made some poor decisions and I think this was supposed to bail them out of it. Over investing into Alfa, cars that barely sell no matter the region was the biggest one while literally ignoring Dodge and using it as an ATM in their most profitable region and it seems they hinged that decision off the darts failure, which was their own doing.
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No they don't. They aren't selling in some markets that Renault has a pretty good presence in. As much is stated earlier in this thread. Also, they don't have much in the way of mid-size to compact sedans. Not for no reason, but sharing the cost of developing a vehicle with Renault could've been a good way to get back into that market.

What cars are barely selling no matter the region? The only one I can think of is Fiat and even they are selling in some markets (Europe and Brazil IIRC). They aren't ignoring Dodge. They've gotten the Demon, Redeye, Widebody, Durango SRT, and soon-to-be Charger Widebody. Sure Dodge hasn't gotten entirely new product in a while, but it's not like they're suffering. This is the strongest they've been in a long time as far as performance goes.

I don't know about Alfa Romeo at the moment. I'll have to check their sales and see how they're doing. IIRC the Stelvio was outselling the Giulia.
 
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Dodge hasn't had a new product since the dart and anything Renault could offer, they already have. Period. No use sugar coating it - this was either an attempt to offload FCA or raid Renaults bank account.
 
Mopar426 said:
Dodge hasn't had a new product since the dart and anything Renault could offer, they already have. Period. No use sugar coating it - this was either an attempt to offload FCA or raid Renaults bank account.
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They haven't had something all-new since the Dart yes, but the notion that Dodge is getting neglected is false. FCA wouldn't have bothered putting anywhere near the resources they have if Dodge was truly getting neglected. Dodge is doing fine. All the Hellcats, Viper ACR/ACR-E, Durango SRT, Demon, the Widebodies, Redeye, and upcoming Charger widebody shouldn't be taken for granted. We all want all-new product, but let's not take for granted what FCA has accomplished with what they had.

So Renault having actual market presence in places where FCA doesn't shouldn't warrant interest? Or their EV technologies? This would've been a good strategic move on FCA's part to get into markets they're not in. Especially in Europe (Megane and Clio, Talisman, etc).
 
I don't expect this is the end of the merger talks. Odds are they will get back to the table as their are benefits for all parties with a merger.
 
Mopar426 said:
What diversification do they need? They literally have everything already.
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Diversification unlike GM. Pursue profitability in all important regions. But as I see you don't understand it.
 
bluskye said:
I don't expect this is the end of the merger talks. Odds are they will get back to the table as their are benefits for all parties with a merger.
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I hope so.

I don't see much partners which can fit to FCA's picture. In my opinion Ford is the most desirable partner now. Of course Renault was in the first place because of almost no overlap.
 
France hopes 'door not closed' on FCA/Renault deal: French budget minister


PARIS (Reuters) - French budget minister Gerald Darmanin said he hoped the door had “not closed” on the possibility of a merger between Fiat Chrysler (FCA) and Renault and added France would be happy to re-examine any new proposal from Fiat.

“Talks could resume at some time in the future,” Darmanin told FranceInfo radio on Thursday.

Earlier on Thursday, Fiat Chrysler said it had abandoned its $35 billion merger offer for Renault, blaming French politics for scuttling what would have been a landmark deal to create the world’s third-biggest automaker.

France hopes 'door not closed' on FCA/Renault deal: French budget...
 
LOL

France seeks to fend off blame for FCA-Renault deal collapse


The French government, which has a 15% stake in Renault, had welcomed the merger plan, but overplayed its hand by pushing for a series of guarantees and concessions that eventually exhausted the patience of FCA, sources familiar with the talks said.

Wrong-footed by FCA’s decision to withdraw its merger proposal late on Wednesday, a French official called FCA Chairman John Elkann early on Thursday to see if he might reconsider, but was rebuffed, one of the sources said.

While France has a long history of government interference in business, President Emmanuel Macron came to power promising a broadly market-friendly agenda. The failure of the FCA deal risks leaving Renault locked into Europe’s stagnant mass-market for cars, and deterring other potential suitors, analysts said.
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NISSAN FACTOR
French finance minister Bruno Le Maire said on Thursday the government had engaged constructively, but had not been prepared to back a deal without the endorsement of Renault’s current alliance partner Nissan.

Nissan had said it would abstain at a Renault board meeting to vote on the merger proposal.

...

However, a source close to FCA played down the significance of Nissan’s stance in the discussions and blamed the French government for succumbing to political pressure at home.

The FCA-Renault talks were conducted against the backdrop of a French public outcry over 1,044 layoffs at a General Electric factory. The U.S. company had promised to safeguard jobs there when it acquired France’s Alstom in 2015.
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The deal’s failure could also add to financial markets’ frustration with France.

“With FCA pulling its merger offer, one has to wonder how much the French state is set on limiting Renault’s strategic and valuation opportunities despite having only a 15% stake,” analysts at brokerage Jefferies wrote in a note to clients.

At 1450 GMT, Renault shares were down 7.1% at 52.19 euros, while FCA shares in Milan had recovered most of their early losses to trade down 0.1% at 11.61 euros. Nissan shares had earlier closed down 1.7%
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Good, I don't want any government having any stake in this deal. But FCA does need help with hybrid and electrification tech.
 
How Nissan is connected to the deal.

Renault owns majority shares of Nissan, but not all. Nissan owns shares in Renault. Nissan has two voting members on the Renault’s board. Renault appoints the CEO/President of Nissan. Nissan owns Mitsubishi outright.

So, if a deal went down, Nissan would own part of the new company, and it would have to get some voting rights on the board. The resultant company FCRA would be the majority owner of Nissan, and therefore Mitsubishi. Mistu would be home again.

NissanMitsu make and sell more electric cars than everyone else combined.

Porsche has the most wins in all forms of Motorsport combined. Nissan is #2!

Renault-Fiat-Iveco trucks and commercial vehicles would merge. Likely Ram Commercial would be part of that, as could Nissan and Mitsubishi. THAT six way combo would scare everyone in the commercial vehicle business. It would be a worldwide juggernaut.

Ferrari IS F1. Lotus sold their F1 team to Renault. Ferrari supplies engines to itself, Alfa, and Haas. Renault supplies itself and McLaren. That would mean Elkaan would be in charge of the engines for five teams, and the entirety of two full F1 teams.

The racing aspect of this merger was mind bogglingly beautiful.

There were a lot of good things about the merger. Too bad the French overplayed their hand.
 
Mopar426 said:
What diversification do they need? They literally have everything already.

Electric cars that don't make money????

They have made some poor decisions and I think this was supposed to bail them out of it. Over investing into Alfa, cars that barely sell no matter the region was the biggest one while literally ignoring Dodge and using it as an ATM in their most profitable region and it seems they hinged that decision off the darts failure, which was their own doing.
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not seething what your seeing--their bottom line is far better than any other US manufacturer, and one of the best in the world. They saw that they might be able to pick up a decent Euro production house on the cheap and strengthen the Euro portion of FCA. It was a good bet up until it wasn't.
 
Muther said:
How Nissan is connected to the deal.

Renault owns majority shares of Nissan, but not all. Nissan owns shares in Renault. Nissan has two voting members on the Renault’s board. Renault appoints the CEO/President of Nissan. Nissan owns Mitsubishi outright.

So, if a deal went down, Nissan would own part of the new company, and it would have to get some voting rights on the board. The resultant company FCRA would be the majority owner of Nissan, and therefore Mitsubishi. Mistu would be home again.

NissanMitsu make and sell more electric cars than everyone else combined.

Porsche has the most wins in all forms of Motorsport combined. Nissan is #2!

Renault-Fiat-Iveco trucks and commercial vehicles would merge. Likely Ram Commercial would be part of that, as could Nissan and Mitsubishi. THAT six way combo would scare everyone in the commercial vehicle business. It would be a worldwide juggernaut.

Ferrari IS F1. Lotus sold their F1 team to Renault. Ferrari supplies engines to itself, Alfa, and Haas. Renault supplies itself and McLaren. That would mean Elkaan would be in charge of the engines for five teams, and the entirety of two full F1 teams.

The racing aspect of this merger was mind bogglingly beautiful.

There were a lot of good things about the merger. Too bad the French overplayed their hand.
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If The Japanese Prime minister thinks Nissan/Mitsubishi is in danger of being left out in the cold, he'd "arrange" for Toyota to step into the breach. They don't want to have two of their biggest makes being handed around the office.
 
John Elkann's letter to FCA employees


Dear Colleagues,

The past days and weeks have been more than usually busy as we have worked to submit and then refine our proposal to Groupe Renault for a transformational merger.

The commitment, stamina and creativity of all those directly involved has been truly inspirational. No less important and impressive has been the unremitting focus every one of you has applied to the continuing job at hand, that of driving forward with our existing plans at all levels of our business.

The decision to engage in these discussions with Groupe Renault‎ was the right one and one we took after much preparation on many fronts. The broad welcome it received was clear evidence that our timing as well as the balance of what we were proposing was correct. The decision to terminate our discussions was not taken lightly but it was done so with one thing above all in mind; the protection of the interests of our company and all those working here and more widely with our broader stakeholders clearly considered.

Even the finest proposal, such as this one, which generated so much positive recognition and consensus, has little chance of ultimate success if its foundations are unstable. It takes a certain boldness to convene a dialogue as we did. But when it becomes clear that the discussions have been taken as far as they can reasonably go, it is necessary to be equally decisive in drawing matters to a close and returning to the important work we have to do.

FCA, under Mike Manley’s leadership, is an outstanding business, full of exceptional people and with a clear strategy for a strong, independent future. We will continue to be open to opportunities of all kinds that offer the possibility to enhance and accelerate the delivery of that strategy and the creation of value. But today, I know you will agree with me that now is the time to redouble our focus on the present and on the delivery of the commitments we have made for the current year.

Thank you and buon lavoro!
 
I must say I have been educated this week watching this whole story unfold.

Its amazing watching the French and Japanese trying to still hold onto the "Old School" thoughts and not just focus on doing good business.

No matter how personal emotions like feeling left out or feeling taken for granted still play into the drama. There is no such thing as "Its only business"
 
Bili said:
FCA-Renault merger is not yet a write-off

Of course it's not...
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This is an example of the French executive office seeking to get on the right side of the yellow-vest protestorsafter badly e mood of the public. They overplayed their hand and got slapped down by Exor which wouldn’t be forced into a dad deal. Once they get over their bruised egos it might be a go. FCA has the top hand in the negations and they don’t intend to lose out-they know time is on their side here.
 
Freshforged said:
This is an example of the French executive office seeking to get on the right side of the yellow-vest protestorsafter badly e mood of the public. They overplayed their hand and got slapped down by Exor which wouldn’t be forced into a dad deal. Once they get over their bruised egos it might be a go. FCA has the top hand in the negations and they don’t intend to lose out-they know time is on their side here.
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Actually something extraordinary has happened. Something which hasn't helped with French Government.

On the very same Monday when FCA made its offer General Electric fires more than 1000 workers of French Alstom.
And it seems that all has backfired at FCA.


Nissan is wrong? That's a complete nonsense. I'm irritated when I see that some guys on other forum are pushing that idea. But same guys will always say the opposite in comparison to FCA's statement.
 
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