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EVs Aren't For Everyone, PHEVs Would Justify A Transition To Electric

The automotive industry is rapidly shifting towards electric vehicles (EVs), driven by environmental concerns and government regulations. However, fans of Stellantis’ Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep®, and Ram brands have clearly preferred plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) over full EVs. These brands carry a rich legacy, evoking nostalgia and tradition. They’re known for iconic vehicles celebrated for their … (read full article...)

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jdl1974

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PHEVs need to get a lot less complicated and expensive, but they are a WAY better solution than BEVs (unless you just want a city car). I still want V8s and Inline 6s if it has to be a PHEV, but they need to be SIMPLE like a 60s muscle car or a Jeep. So, that means we don't need 3 battery packs on the vehicle, spaghetti bowls for wiring harnesses and two different HVAC systems. It also means we need cleaner gasoline, e/bio fuel (or whatever) so that we don't need emissions controls and other garbage added to the car.
 

Moparound

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After studying a decent amount for the push towards electrification, I am not onboard. Will refrain from dissertation but the current source of power(battery components and composition) am not in agreement. Too many issues that raise even more questions and issues.

Also, for example, on just one small portion of the matter, there are videos of people disassembling the battery packs on Tesla’s replacing the batteries technology from just a few years ago with what some term as ‘bad design’ with more ‘modern design’. Yes, technology moves forward but it seems BV’s are a work in progress sold to the public before enough testing or time for design takes place?

I would not rule-out a hybrid but the current internal combustion engine design has not been reliably replaced in my opinion. Not yet anyway.
 

bill burke

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Rush to electric is political, driven by zealots with extreme views. Coercion and mandates not approved by Congress are wrong, not to mention unconstitutional. Electrics are sitting on dealer lots with few takers. Show some backbone and oppose this insanity. Gas today, gas forever.
 

vbondjr1

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This article hits on so many points that I've been saying for a little while now. Pure EVs are still somewhat of a low volume niche vehicle and while there are more and more Teslas on the road and a few other EVs in this current day and age with the way things are, No, full BEVs are not the best idea. Hybrids are about the best thing going right now because they do offer the benefits of both conventional gasoline burning powertrains with the added bonus of emissions-reducing electric drive systems. Yes, "If a charger can make a charger faster," while making it more efficient and allowing the brand to continue making high performance vehicles, then why not do it? If I can take the next gen car and have a base hybrid 4-cylinder turbo engine with 5.7L Hemi Horsepower and 6.4L Hemi torque and then put three different levels of 3.0L Hurricane Hybrid powertrains on top of that (S.O Hybrid, H.O Hybrid , H.O Cat-3 Hybrid), Maybe an 800hp Nettuno 3.0L V6 Hybrid powertrain at the top of that and then have an 800V Banshee EV at the top of the food chain where that low-volume Niche market would be able to satisfy the projected sales numbers that Stellantis would be looking to achieve, then why not?! That kind of power with 25-30miles of full EV range with more emissions friendly powertrains makes every bit of sense. Couple that with an expanded Direct Connection catalog and now your EPA is happy, we don't need tax credits from Tesla AND the enthusiasts are happy. If the thought is to have all of the lineups electrified or electric by a certain year, why not do it like this. This also give stellantis time to perfect these Electric Muscle cars that they're supposedly coming out with in the near future. As much as I personally love Hemi powertrains, I love DODGE that much more and if finally moving from the same thing that they've been doing for the last almost 20 years to doing something different that is going to benefit them and keep them around longer and still give me the option to go buy a high performance vehicle that I can enjoy everyday from the brand that I love and still be able to go to the gas station and put fuel in it and add intakes and that kind of stuff to it, I will gladly take a Hurricane Hybrid powered AWD Dodge Charger and be 100% happy about it. Will ICE cars last forever? Probably not. Will EVs replace internal combustion completely at some point? Absolutely. And honestly there's nothing wrong with that. As long as it's done right and for the right reasons and at the right time. Honestly, we probably have another 20-30 years before EVs honestly take over. Fifteen at the bare minimum. When they do. They'll be nothing like the EVs we know right now. At that point, half of us wont even be driving anymore. In 30-year, I myself will be 69-years old, if I live to see that age and by then, I'll more than likely be coming to the end of my driving career or getting very close to it. The evolution of the auto industry is honestly healthy and necessary as remaining stagnant would lead to it's demise. It is time that Dodge evolved into something more modern, but yet, still Dodge.
 

vbondjr1

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PHEVs need to get a lot less complicated and expensive, but they are a WAY better solution than BEVs (unless you just want a city car). I still want V8s and Inline 6s if it has to be a PHEV, but they need to be SIMPLE like a 60s muscle car or a Jeep. So, that means we don't need 3 battery packs on the vehicle, spaghetti bowls for wiring harnesses and two different HVAC systems. It also means we need cleaner gasoline, e/bio fuel (or whatever) so that we don't need emissions controls and other garbage added to the car.
I'd been looking at a few articles about E-Bio fuel and some of it is very confusing. It doesn't seem like they give out the same power that gasoline gives and it's pretty expensive if I read the article correctly. It seems like a good idea though, if they can make it be equivalent to the fuels we use now, while being cost effective and clean as well. An E-fuel system that could be identical to gasoline coupled with a hybrid system would actually be quite awesome.
 

TripleT

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Using food to make fuel when it leaks into the ocean and will spring from the ground.... is a bad idea.
 

peterw24

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I really hate every hybrids, EVs and all this kind of forcing to leave that whats best in automotive industry. Unfortunatelly I live in Europe and on every corner they force to switch EV, hybrid 🤮🤮 I reallydont need any kind of electrification, just good car with V6 in resonable price.
 

TripleT

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I'd been looking at a few articles about E-Bio fuel and some of it is very confusing. It doesn't seem like they give out the same power that gasoline gives and it's pretty expensive if I read the article correctly. It seems like a good idea though, if they can make it be equivalent to the fuels we use now, while being cost effective and clean as well. An E-fuel system that could be identical to gasoline coupled with a hybrid system would actually be quite awesome.
There nothing fundamentally wrong with combustion engines other than IPcC summary for law maker being a political document instead of scientific document. That picked and choose as a call to action instead of a facts that were underwhelming. That people can longer do fractional math. That the absolutely worst people to make engineering solutions are politicians,

Yes PHEV are pretty awesome. Liquid fuel for high density and low refuel times, and EV for common everyday distances.
 

TripleT

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I really hate every hybrids, EVs and all this kind of forcing to leave that whats best in automotive industry. Unfortunatelly I live in Europe and on every corner they force to switch EV, hybrid 🤮🤮 I reallydont need any kind of electrification, just good car with V6 in resonable price.

So you don't like a battery starter. Your Car already has an Ancient battery technology and a seperate motor. So you don't need that? Cuz cranking engines sucks. I have never done a car but my fathers old B international was a handful.

The Wrangler and GC 4xE system (really ZFs) replaces the torque converter with as pair of pancake motors that handle launch and low speed while supplementing the Gas motor in Hybrid mode. The starter replaced by a motor and generator. The really only additional component is the Battery. Eventually the 12V should be eliminated and so it will be a wash.

EU again is letting politicians make decisions instead of engineers.... The PHEV is a really nice compromise.

I can tell you that in every way the 2.0L T Hurricane ZF PHEV powerplant is superior to the PentaStar in every way and is actually better than the Eagle other than the sound.
 
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bill burke

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Using food to make fuel when it leaks into the ocean and will spring from the ground.... is a bad idea.
Bio fuel represents the basic premise of this thread. Basically we have informed readers attempting to strategize various means to offer, the other basic thread, choices. It is obvious to anyone but the most devoted environmentalist that electrification on this current glide path is unachievable and worse tremendously unpopular. Should our scientific-industrial enterprises stop research to improve the environment, heck no, but do it pragmatically and respect market forces and free choice.
Our fellow readers have presented reasonable positions here in, but our current political leadership and their minions have not. Clear thinking people will resolve this issue.
 

patfromigh

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In 1974 the US federal government mandated seat belt interlocks. The interlocks were a device which wouldn't allow a car to start unless the driver (and passenger) are buckled up. Some people were forced to buckle up their groceries before driving. The public hated it and raised hell. Politicians quickly changed their minds after getting an earful, and the rule was rescinded before the model year was finished.

Fifty years later and now seat belt interlocks are back. The new system won't allow a vehicle to be put in drive before buckling up. GM quietly slipped the feature during the pandemic while everybody was distracted. It has since spread to the Korean brands. GM allows a person to go into the vehicle settings menu and turn it off, but the Korean built vehicles won't allow this. Be careful though, because the GM setup keeps track of this and will rat you out.

Why am I bringing this up in an EV thread? A number of posts on these forums are of the opinion that the public will rise up and oppose the EV mandates. From what I've seen with the seat belt interlocks coming back, I don't think so. The news media has done a good job of suppressing and/or down playing the battery fires, cold weather performance and various charging station woes. People today are just more compliant than previous generations of Americans, they won't rise up.

Plugin hybrids have batteries, but avoid the problems of fully battery electric vehicles. The gas motor eliminates range anxiety. That I know of, none of the hybrids allow for high speed charging, which greatly reduces the fire risk and provides more charging station options.

Hybrid vehicles have one big disadvantage, hybrids are rougher on batteries with more frequent charge discharge cycles than fully electric vehicles. Hybrid power-trains spur faster development of alternative battery designs and this threatens the status quo. The status quo is one dominate battery design, fully battery electric vehicles using that battery design and charged by a tightly monitored network of charging stations. Keep your social credit score high. You will lose points if the seat belt interlock is turned off.
 

patfromigh

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One of the hallmarks of socialism is centralized planning. A regime in charge will issue hard and fast rules for everybody from the central office, whose bureaucrats often don't have to see the reality of their decisions.

A new government initiative known as the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) program allots $5 billion USD to build out the EV charging infrastructure in the United States.
This is from the T4America blog:
With $7.5 billion in funding for electric vehicle chargers, the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) and Charging and Fueling Infrastructure (CFI) programs represent the United States’ down payment toward a national publicly accessible EV charging network. NEVI, a new $5 billion formula program, offers $1 billion per year for states to implement their own EV Charger deployment plans. The CFI program, a smaller $2.5 billion discretionary program, was made for smaller government organizations, such as counties and cities. Half of CFI funding will go to community-based chargers, and half will go to chargers less than one mile from designated Alternative Fuel Corridors (AFC), highway routes designated for chargers.

To be eligible for NEVI formula funding, chargers must be spaced at most 50 miles away from each other, be sited less than one mile away from an AFC, and have a minimum of four charging ports. States do not get flexibility with siting their federally funded EV Chargers until they are certified as “built out” by USDOT, meaning their entire statewide network fulfills these requirements.

According to this T4America article, the hard and fast 1 mile rule leaves out many communities, which are only a few miles more from the AFC. This means EV charging away from home will often happen at gas stations and truck stops. Even with high speed charging, battery electric vehicles take a while to fill up. Where do people want to spend that 30 minute to an hour or more while the vehicle is charging. This will repeat the tragedy of the communities being bypassed when interstate highways were first built. For me personally, I would rather spend my time charging in a well lit place that is safe, while providing more options to spend my time.

I still receive T4 America newsletters in my email despite no longer participating in or supporting many of their projects. I don't like the hypocrisy of the DEI rhetoric and I also don't agree with battery electric as a panacea. Their article while pointing out the pitfalls of bad planning, ironically misses that it is on interstates that battery electric vehicles are least efficient.
 

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