Dodge Is Working On A Charger Daytona GT RWD Model

A majority of Dodge enthusiasts are upset about the brand’s path toward electrification. With the introduction of the all-new, all-electric 2024 Dodge Charger Daytona, Dodge is pushing a duo of two-door all-electric muscle cars, offering free performance upgrades for the vehicle’s initial model year of production. But many enthusiasts who are on the fence about the new electric Charger are questioning not only the car’s range but also the current status of the country’s charging infrastructure and price. While Dodge might not have released pricing just yet on the new electrified model, the new Charger Daytona is expected to be … (read full article...)

 

[TripleT]

I don't think the CARB states outside maybe Minnesota are going to back off anything. They are perfectly fine with purging the Automotive industry from their municipalities and everyone forced on public transportation.

 

[James.A]

I don't think the CARB states outside maybe Minnesota are going to back off anything. They are perfectly fine with purging the Automotive industry from their municipalities and everyone forced on public transportation.

That won't work in California.

 

[ipa0628]

Foot shooting is selling cars a no margin and nearly going belly up.Nobody said anything about selling cars with no margin.

The '23 SXT was around 40000. $4000 on that is 10%. They relied on paint and sticker packages on these cars for years with no other major investments. Basically since '15, no changes. They didn't sell these cars at no margin.
Pricing greed is what I am talking about. Something other than white on a Ram is $245. Same color on a GC is $595. Tell me that makes sense other than a cash grab. The Ram requires a lot more paint than a GC.
Same with a Ram Laramie. If you want the Night Edition, you are required to buy the Level2 package which is 2400 over the Level 1. There is absolutely nothing in the Level 2 that has anything to do with trim and paint. Then the Night Edition is another 3400 on top of that. So you have to spend 5800 to get blackout trim.
On the F150 Lariat, Laramie equivalent, The black package is 1000 and the Lariat has a standard V8. Overall when equip ed the same, the Lariat is 4K less than the Laramie.
Ford just announced this on the Bronco Sport.

https://fordauthority.com/2024/04/2024-ford-bronco-sport-lineup-gets-less-expensive/

Jeep cut the price of 1 Compass model, the GC Limited and a 4x2 Larado.
The Bronco Sport sold more than the Compass in the 1st qtr '24. They are similar is size.
Companies need profits to continue product investment. FCA and now Stellantis was and is profits plus overpricing.

 

[MotorMaven]

Dodge, Jeep, Ram and Chrysler would need to sell both EV and ICE, if they want to succeed on the long term.

We have seen the governments pushing hard on EV just to back track when they realized the technology, infrastructure and people are not ready.

ICE technology is much matured and it keep evolving.

There will be a transition, but it will be short.

Once the Chinese product starts selling in quantity, ICE will go the way of Oldsmobile.

 

[TripleT]

There will be a transition, but it will be short.

Once the Chinese product starts selling in quantity, ICE will go the way of Oldsmobile.

We don't have to be either there is a place for both, and it should be market driven not forced.

You get these dumb arguments when Governments interfere in the marketplace.

The reason for the Chinese transition is because they went from bike, to scooter, then the really rich went to cars, now the scooter people can get at reasonably nice Wuling or Leap for $6K. That is market driven in a country that has the power to dictate.

 

[patfromigh]

I don't think the CARB states outside maybe Minnesota are going to back off anything. They are perfectly fine with purging the Automotive industry from their municipalities and everyone forced on public transportation.

Minnesota is even clamping down on fossil fueled electricity generation. The DFL here has a lock on both houses and the Governor's seat. Meanwhile, New Mexico has jumped into the CARB rules with both feet.

 

[TripleT]

Minnesota is even clamping down on fossil fueled electricity generation. The DFL here has a lock on both houses and the Governor's seat. Meanwhile, New Mexico has jumped into the CARB rules with both feet.

Well you'll need to convince them that Natural gas isn't a fossil fuel, unless they think Titan had enough biological life to produce oceans of it.

 

[patfromigh]

Well you'll need to convince them that Natural gas isn't a fossil fuel, unless they think Titan had enough biological life to produce oceans of it.

These clowns have convinced the farmers (the F in DFL) that EVs will still need ethanol. They still support the brood of snakes.

 

[TripleT]

These clowns have convinced the farmers (the F in DFL) that EVs will still need ethanol. They still support the brood of snakes.

HUH?

 

[patfromigh]

HUH?

There is no Democrat party in Minnesota. We have the Democrat-Farm-Labor party (DFL) which is an amalgamation of a couple of the socialist parties / movements from the early Twentieth Century with the Democrat Party. The Farmers (upper case for the F) have always been in lockstep with the DFL. Even the Republicans are afraid to mess with ethanol. The Governor has managed to pacify the the farmer-ethanol interests telling them EV mandates are good for their business.

At least our politicians don't say the Moon is a ball of gas.

 

[Mopar392]

These clowns have convinced the farmers (the F in DFL) that EVs will still need ethanol. They still support the brood of snakes.

How??

 

[TripleT]

There is no Democrat party in Minnesota. We have the Democrat-Farm-Labor party (DFL) which is an amalgamation of a couple of the socialist parties / movements from the early Twentieth Century with the Democrat Party. The Farmers (upper case for the F) have always been in lockstep with the DFL. Even the Republicans are afraid to mess with ethanol. The Governor has managed to pacify the the farmer-ethanol interests telling them EV mandates are good for their business.

At least our politicians don't say the Moon is a ball of gas.

Just how is Ethanol used in a EV? Unless you use it to gererate power, and everyone knows that corn ethanol is at best energy neutral. So where does the power come from to make the Ethanol to burn to make power?

 

[scatpack_69]

If electric is dead, how come Tesla sells almost 15 cars for every Challenger or Charger Dodge manages to sell?

Seems to me that the gas guzzling muscle car is dead and some are in denial about it.

Dodge either adopts to the change, or keeps shipping obsolete gas cars with ever-shrinking volumes (a mere 121K for Charger and Challengers of all stripes in 2023) and Dodge performance cars disappear entirely.

There is no future for gas performance cars. They’re an evolutionary dead end.

You’re kidding, right? Do you even know why Tesla exists in the first place? Subsidies. Period.

Combustion ain’t dead, and won’t be in my lifetime. I’m 40. When we have a complete overhaul of our electric grid NATIONWIDE, and start building and bringing online power plants, then and only then do you have a remotely viable argument. Since the greenies hate coal, they’re out. And we’ve been conditioned to be afraid of nuclear, so that’s an uphill battle. So, where will all this electricity come from? Wind farms have proven to be a joke. Hydro ain’t gonna do it. We aren’t going to float a bunch of power….blimps so that’s out.

It’s clear you’ve drank the kool aid. I pity you. Actually, no I don’t. I just shake my head at the delusional that can’t seem to fathom this….

Electric is dead as-is. Minus major change it’s never happening. Period

 

[patfromigh]

Just how is Ethanol used in a EV?

How??

Ethanol can't be used in EVs, because it is used as an oxygenate for petrol fuels in IC engines. EVs don't use petroleum as a fuel. It doesn't take much research to see even before the zero emissions mandates, a number of E-85 compliant engines were not offered for sale in California. ICE bans mean the end of ethanol and bio-diesel. It won't be a quick end, but zero emissions mandates will strike a fatal blow.

The question should be phrased, "How can farmers in Minnesota still support a regime that is bent on implementing policies which doom farm interests?" The handwriting is on the wall, perhaps a mirror and smoke generator were placed in front of it by the politicians.

It's not just the zero emissions mandates, extreme environmental policies doom farming in general. Farmers everywhere else in the world are protesting such policies. Farmers here don't see this.or make the right connections.

So in conclusion, EVs don't need ethanol, but they do require massive amounts of snake oil. I don't mean each battery electric vehicle individually, but for this whole "everything must be battery electric powered" panacea.

 

[MotorMaven]

You’re kidding, right? Do you even know why Tesla exists in the first place? Subsidies. Period.

The same is true of Stellantis USA and GM. Without $40 billion in taxpayer bailout cash, the entire portfolio of GM and Chrysler brands would have failed and disappeared back in 2008, joining AMC, Studebaker, Packard, Nash, Hudson, and Kaiser-Fraser in the automotive graveyard.

 

[scatpack_69]

The same is true of Stellantis USA and GM. Without $40 billion in taxpayer bailout cash, the entire portfolio of GM and Chrysler brands would have failed and disappeared back in 2008, joining AMC, Studebaker, Packard, Nash, Hudson, and Kaiser-Fraser in the automotive graveyard.

Incorrect. Chrysler and GM were given government-backed loans, of which both have been completely repaid and were repaid ahead of required timeline. Ford also took government backed loans, but did so before the market went completely belly up and therefore the uninformed speak more highly of them. They were no different, except ford worked it so they did not get forced into bankruptcy.

It’s also a fallacy that they would have ended up like other makes that are no longer around. They would have been forced into bankruptcy, suppliers would not have been forced to forgive massive debts, and would have been essentially auctioned to the highest bidders. As a result, many suppliers would have went bankrupt and disappeared, it would have really been a far FAR worse situation than it was, which was about as bad as it gets.

Might have a clue what you’re talking about before commenting. The government-backed loans are in no way, shape or form similar to the subsidies given to Tesla; the only reason Tesla exists is because of a government-forced market creation. There never has been a large market for electric but the government forced it and now there’s a very small market for electric, falsely propped up by government.

Facts matter

 

[JohnRogers]

Incorrect. Chrysler and GM were given government-backed loans, of which both have been completely repaid and were repaid ahead of required timeline. Ford also took government backed loans, but did so before the market went completely belly up and therefore the uninformed speak more highly of them. They were no different, except ford worked it so they did not get forced into bankruptcy.

It’s also a fallacy that they would have ended up like other makes that are no longer around. They would have been forced into bankruptcy, suppliers would not have been forced to forgive massive debts, and would have been essentially auctioned to the highest bidders. As a result, many suppliers would have went bankrupt and disappeared, it would have really been a far FAR worse situation than it was, which was about as bad as it gets.

Might have a clue what you’re talking about before commenting. The government-backed loans are in no way, shape or form similar to the subsidies given to Tesla; the only reason Tesla exists is because of a government-forced market creation. There never has been a large market for electric but the government forced it and now there’s a very small market for electric, falsely propped up by government.

Facts matter

I was ready to clown Mr Scatpack 69 but did some due diligence. Turns out he's correct, some details are different but a government loan is a government loan.

Ford took $6B government loan in 2009 — and debt still haunts company

Ford isn't alone in the struggle, but it entered 2020 reporting a much smaller-than-expected profit than its competitors.

www.freep.com

 

[MotorMaven]

I keep seeing old-school die-hards insist that EVs are "dead" and gas guzzlers are the future, but the numbers tell a different story.

This year, Tesla will sell more EV sedans in the USA alone than Dodge, Chrysler, Alfa Romeo, FIAT and Maserati combined will sell of all gas sedans worldwide.

Gas LX sales also weren't setting the world on fire. The Charger and Challenger's combined sales volume in 2023 was down 50% from its peak, and the Chrysler 300's total volume was down over 90% from peak.

Stellantis has a necessary transition to make. Fantasies of obsolete gas guzzlers being a big seller ain't gonna get them where they need to be.

The only open question is whether Dodge stays a gas brand (and dies in a few years as a result) or manages to navigate a successful transition. Chrysler is in even worse shape.

 

[MotorMaven]

I don't think the CARB states outside maybe Minnesota are going to back off anything. They are perfectly fine with purging the Automotive industry from their municipalities and everyone forced on public transportation.

That's not what's going to happen. Go to any CARB state and you see lots of Tesla, Hyundai, and Kia EVs.

Brands that make the transition will fill the streets of CARB states. Brands that refuse to do so or fail to do so will be stuck in the states that aren't CARB and will disappear.

There's no purge going on. Just natural selection. Hyundai just finished its Metaplant in GA that is far larger than any Chrysler Group plant in size, scale and employment... If Stellantis doesn't compete, Hyundai will happily replace them (just as it has in all the categories FCA withdrew from like compact and midsized sedans and coupes).

The Metaplant is going to start making IONIQ 5 EVs with a price tag of under $30K. What FCA/Stellantis vehicles sell for under $30K? Iacocca is rolling in his grave with what they've done with his company... From innovative and affordable cars to rarely-updated aging vehicles with astronomical price tags.

It's do-or-die time for the legacy manufacturers, and there's nothing special about them... If they disappear, their customers will still have choices, just as customers of Studebaker, AMC, Packard, and other dead brands did when those brands couldn't compete anymore.

 

[scatpack_69]

There's no purge going on. Just natural selection. ….

It's do-or-die time for the legacy manufacturers, and there's nothing special about them... If they disappear, their customers will still have choices, just as customers of Studebaker, AMC, Packard, and other dead brands did when those brands couldn't compete anymore.

100% incorrect. There is no natural selection. Doing a little research before blasting those of us that realize EV, in its current form, CANNOT, WILL NOT, ever be the way forward would help you a ton.

The EV market is a market that never existed. It was a pipe dream through the ‘90’s and that’s all it ever would have been. Until, until, the government falsely propped it up. Go ahead and scream the values of Tesla all you want, it’s an absolute set-in-stone fact that they would have gone belly up over a decade ago if it weren’t for your and my tax dollars. The government subsidized Tesla, offered tax cuts and such to buyers, all in an effort to create a market that doesn’t exist. In the mean time, they made Elon the richest single person on the planet, and have now forced every other manufacturer to build vehicles, that no one wants, for a market that doesn’t exist, and without any viable infrastructure to support it.

Irrefutable fact.


Then your second paragraph, oh my. How obtuse we can be….

Comparing any manufacturer today, to marginally niche manufacturers of old that existed in a far more stable economic world and a saturated playing field, well bud it just doesn’t work. The ripple effect today would/could be massive. Don’t kid yourself

You’re swinging and missing