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Should Ram Enter The Small Compact Truck Market Again?

Should Ram Enter The Small Compact Truck Market Again?​

North Americans Want Small Trucks Again...​


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Today, Ford Motor Company rolled out their all-new Maverick compact pickup. In what appears to be an appealing package, the Maverick is the answer for those who are looking for a more affordable option without sacrificing capability and good fuel economy that can fit in most garages. North Americans from the United States and Canada, have been asking for a true compact for years and it appears Ford has delivered.

 

Trickster

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Should they? Absolutely.
Midsize are no longer midsize compared to the past. Not everyone needs or wants a full-size pickup.
The so called midsized Gladiator is too big for my needs, so now there is no choice for me but to look at
other builders. Hyundai Santa Cruz is exactly what I am looking for and I predict it will sell quite well.
Perhaps with Stellantis being a global manufacturer they might entertain a true small pickup, as it is the North American
market that drives the bigger is better mindset. But, if it’s not built in NA, the 25% tax comes into play and ends any competitive
pricing. Ford has it figured out perhaps, hence the new Maverick trucklet.
 

jclick25

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They should bring a small pickup on the compass platform but not a Toro unless restyled for N.A. The current exterior is not what we want. The front is ok but the back is hideous. Lower the bed height and change the doors to match the lines. If they bring the Toro unchanged it will fail. Ford really did their homework here and everyone else already has catching up to do. They even offer the 2.0 turbo, something FCA refused to give us in anything smaller than Cherokee.
 

patfromigh

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If Ford is offering the hybrid on the Maverick's base trim, Ram should also have something similar. Ram doesn't have an economical four to use with a hybrid system like Ford does. The 2.4 Tigershark with Multi-Air has been a big disappointment. RAM should take the old 2 liter Tigershark that the Dart used and tune it it to run the Atkinson cycle and use it with a hybrid system. Ram doesn't really have a high voltage hybrid system like Ford and Toyota use, in that the eFlite found in the Pacifica has plugin capability. The front drive based Jeep 4Xe hybrid system is also a plugin setup. PCA also has a front drive plugin hybrid which uses an Aisin automatic. I don't know who supplies the electric motors for the PSA hybrids.

In my opinion Stellantis should build the the Ram 1000 in Toluca along side of the Jeep Compass and sell it here. I don't know how far they are along on the next generation of 48V hybrid electric systems, but there should be a way to have an inexpensive practical setup. The mild hybrid in the Ram pickups isn't it.
 

JYoung04

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Should Ram Enter The Small Compact Truck Market Again?​

North Americans Want Small Trucks Again...​


View attachment 4663

Today, Ford Motor Company rolled out their all-new Maverick compact pickup. In what appears to be an appealing package, the Maverick is the answer for those who are looking for a more affordable option without sacrificing capability and good fuel economy that can fit in most garages. North Americans from the United States and Canada, have been asking for a true compact for years and it appears Ford has delivered.

Most definitely. I don’t know why they stopped making the Dakota. That truck was perfect for someone who needs a truck but can’t afford the price the full size pick ups cost.
 

Mopar392

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Should they enter the mid-size segment or the compact-size segment?
 

TripleT

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Yes they have the product .... Federalize it. Tweak powertrain and upgrade the interior.... I have been advocating it for years.
 

bill burke

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It seems to me that Ram is missing a golden opportunity to build on the research and development foundation of the Brazilian Rams. I believe that with some tweaks to these trucks they can quickly fill the frankly embarrassing hole in the Ram lineup. With the growth in size and price of North American pickups, both Ford and Chevy have gone all in on this opportunity that smaller and less expensive pickups are a big market. If a larger mid-size Ram specific truck is under development in Brazil, where it can be built economically and with less downside exposure, that undertaking must include building this mid-size vehicle that is truly “global” and that means built to include the NA market. The ignoring and denial of the obvious does not hide the truth, everyday that Ram is absent from the compact and mid-size pickup market is revenue lost, opportunity squandered, and brand value diminished and probably most tragic, Ram just looks bad. The answer to your question is yes ! As I have said in other posts, to ignore Brazil as an intricate part of the corporate pipeline for North American brands is foolish and costly, not to mention insulting. Again, the answer is YES !!!
 

AlexB

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It seems to me that Ram is missing a golden opportunity to build on the research and development foundation of the Brazilian Rams. I believe that with some tweaks to these trucks they can quickly fill the frankly embarrassing hole in the Ram lineup. With the growth in size and price of North American pickups, both Ford and Chevy have gone all in on this opportunity that smaller and less expensive pickups are a big market. If a larger mid-size Ram specific truck is under development in Brazil, where it can be built economically and with less downside exposure, that undertaking must include building this mid-size vehicle that is truly “global” and that means built to include the NA market. The ignoring and denial of the obvious does not hide the truth, everyday that Ram is absent from the compact and mid-size pickup market is revenue lost, opportunity squandered, and brand value diminished and probably most tragic, Ram just looks bad. The answer to your question is yes ! As I have said in other posts, to ignore Brazil as an intricate part of the corporate pipeline for North American brands is foolish and costly, not to mention insulting. Again, the answer is YES !!!
Words like “squandered”,”diminished”,”tragic”, and “insulting” are on 1-10 basis is overdramatize at 10 while down right delusional at 1.

Now with being stated, yes Stellantis should make Small & Midsize pickups for North America co-dating using the next generation Pacifica Not Latin American products. Two of the most realistic ''PSA influenced'' models in North America: Pacifica and Midsize Pickup
 

AlexB

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Most definitely. I don’t know why they stopped making the Dakota. That truck was perfect for someone who needs a truck but can’t afford the price the full size pick ups cost.
A: Dakota taking up capacity from RAM,
B: Dakota sales performance wasn’t good
C: The “someone who needs a truck but can’t afford the price the full size pick up” is pretty small part of costumer buying public.

Ford’s motivation is to use capacity that was used for Fiesta in higher margin form than Fiesta and to convert CUV/Traditional Passenger Car buyer into a Truck owner that Ford hopes one day will buy a nice F-150(or higher).
 

patfromigh

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The Ford Maverick is about the same size as the first generation Dakota. It will make a great showroom replacement for the Ford Fusion. The second generation Dakota was also a great truck, which was in production when fuel was inexpensive. The third generation was cursed by Daimler's penny pinching, the mid-size truck segment collapse, and a very bad economy. Oh yeah Chrysler went bankrupt at the time.

The truth is the Ram Classic is holding the fort for the Dakota's old price bracket against the mid-sized truck competition. That Ram Classic is a big truck so it certainly not garage friendly, but the crew cabs of the competition are not that much shorter in length or height. I don't know what happened to the metric ton pickup project. There was no guarantee that would have been sold here anyways. Fiat eventually went with a badge engineered Mitsubishi.

In my opinion the Toro/1000 should be adopted for use North of the Rio Grande and join its platform mate the Jeep Compass on the line in Toluca. Something has to replace the Dart and Chrysler 200 until the automakers relearn how to make practical sedans. Maybe Ram should outdo Ford and offer the 4Xe system standard. It will have a higher base price than the Maverick, but it should be able to have a lower price than a Maverick with 4WD.

Ram really needs to work on a replacement for the Ram 1500 Classic. Maybe that can be done with some attractive option packages for the DT Ram 1500. Ram does that now with HFE package, but that model offers few options and has only white or black for color choice. It surprises me how quickly the Ram Classic can run up in price as the options are added. I've seen Warlocks with sticker prices matching that of the DT Rebels.

As far as developing another mid-size pickup, they could use the Jeep Gladiator frame as a starting point. As a Ram it would have to have an independent front suspension. It should also have a something besides the crew cab. It would share no sheet metal with the Gladiator. It won't be cheap however. Building something off the minivan platform wouldn't be cheap either, ever price a minivan lately.
 

AlexB

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The Ford Maverick is about the same size as the first generation Dakota. It will make a great showroom replacement for the Ford Fusion. The second generation Dakota was also a great truck, which was in production when fuel was inexpensive. The third generation was cursed by Daimler's penny pinching, the mid-size truck segment collapse, and a very bad economy. Oh yeah Chrysler went bankrupt at the time.

The truth is the Ram Classic is holding the fort for the Dakota's old price bracket against the mid-sized truck competition. That Ram Classic is a big truck so it certainly not garage friendly, but the crew cabs of the competition are not that much shorter in length or height. I don't know what happened to the metric ton pickup project. There was no guarantee that would have been sold here anyways. Fiat eventually went with a badge engineered Mitsubishi.

In my opinion the Toro/1000 should be adopted for use North of the Rio Grande and join its platform mate the Jeep Compass on the line in Toluca. Something has to replace the Dart and Chrysler 200 until the automakers relearn how to make practical sedans. Maybe Ram should outdo Ford and offer the 4Xe system standard. It will have a higher base price than the Maverick, but it should be able to have a lower price than a Maverick with 4WD.

Ram really needs to work on a replacement for the Ram 1500 Classic. Maybe that can be done with some attractive option packages for the DT Ram 1500. Ram does that now with HFE package, but that model offers few options and has only white or black for color choice. It surprises me how quickly the Ram Classic can run up in price as the options are added. I've seen Warlocks with sticker prices matching that of the DT Rebels.

As far as developing another mid-size pickup, they could use the Jeep Gladiator frame as a starting point. As a Ram it would have to have an independent front suspension. It should also have a something besides the crew cab. It would share no sheet metal with the Gladiator. It won't be cheap however. Building something off the minivan platform wouldn't be cheap either, ever price a minivan lately.
RAM DT ate 200 capacity, and this is a capacity game. That’s why STLA Medium/Mid made at Windsor is the the only solid option. Basically making a better “Ridgeline” with better program decision making.
As far for “Something has to replace the Dart and Chrysler 200 until the automakers relearn how to make practical sedans” that’s not happening under John Elkann in fact more likely Mopar will remarry Mercedes with John as Chairman.

Given how the average U.S. Mopar is $45,000 , Mercedes would fit in and in Europe give a complete answer to VW(Audi).
 

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A: Dakota taking up capacity from RAM,
B: Dakota sales performance wasn’t good
C: The “someone who needs a truck but can’t afford the price the full size pick up” is pretty small part of costumer buying public.

Ford’s motivation is to use capacity that was used for Fiesta in higher margin form than Fiesta and to convert CUV/Traditional Passenger Car buyer into a Truck owner that Ford hopes one day will buy a nice F-150(or higher).

Cost more that RAM to make, sold for less margin. Wasn't a hard decision to make. It grew too big and too expensive to make. So yeah, I guess getting a expensive vehicle for less is good for the consumer, not so good for the Company. Funny that people often (not that the person responding is) pine for the good old days when the company struggled and sold (sometimes inferior products) at low margin as a bargain for them.
 

TripleT

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Relearn how to make a Sedan.... ha ha ha ha ha.....

Nothing has to be relearned as long as the Koreans are willing to make them at low margin and consumer continue to be willing to pay more for taller hatch vehicles there is nothing to relearn.

Consumer will need to be willing to pay more for sedans and outside the performance segment I would not hold my breath for that to change when efficiency is coming through power train not a less useful shape.
 

wunjee

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Why haven't they already?

The need for these small trucks has never gone away. I can't tell you how many old Mazda and Toyota pickups I see still used by landscaping guys and pool cleaners. They don't need a $45,000 Tacoma or $60,000 RAM 1500. They need a bare-bones <$20,000 truck. Which is something that the market has completely abandoned in favor of big 4-door monstrosities with massive feature-creep driving up the prices so that they're simply out of range of those who actually need them.

I was just saying to a friend the other day that if RAM brought the 700 or 1000 to the US they'd SMASH IT because that market is absolutely non-existent here. Well, looks like Ford beat them to it, so instead of having a head start they'll be playing catch-up, but at least they have a platform to do it with.

GM is just brain-dead on the market trends and I don't see them doing anything except turning the Camaro into another crossover and consigning that name to yet another mediocre mid-size or compact crossover too, just like they did with the Blazer and Trailblazer. Despite the later still being sold as a body-on-frame truck in other markets... The only remarkable thing GM's done in like a decade is the C8, and they've botched that at every possible turn. And this coming from a guy with 2 Chevies in his driveway..

If RAM does the sensible thing and brings the RAM 700 and/or 1000 stateside and offers it as a barebones-base 2-door for under $20,000, they'll have a hit. Because no Maverick is going to see the wild in that $20,000 trim unless someone orders it or Ford offers a fleet version. Power-wise, ram the turbo-4 from the Wrangler in it and you'll have a virtually identical platform to the Maverick's optional turbo-4. I don't know about the hybrid - how many Mavs will actually be built at that ultra-base 2wd-only trim with the hybrid? I think Ford's biggest mistake is only offering the base hybrid with 2wd, but we'll see.

This could get interesting. I hope it does. This is a market that has long been overlooked here in the states.
 
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UN4GTBL

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A: Dakota taking up capacity from RAM,
B: Dakota sales performance wasn’t good
C: The “someone who needs a truck but can’t afford the price the full size pick up” is pretty small part of costumer buying public.

Ford’s motivation is to use capacity that was used for Fiesta in higher margin form than Fiesta and to convert CUV/Traditional Passenger Car buyer into a Truck owner that Ford hopes one day will buy a nice F-150(or higher).

The dumbler era Dakota was where it went wrong IMO. (2005+)

The generation before that (1998-2004) was very popular and a very good truck for it's time. I can't comment on it's profit, etc however.

There was also the general day to day use of it. You could still get a decent bed in the regular cab and extended cab models (although the back seat in the extended cab wasn't great) and the quad cab had a smaller bed. We had two of these, and they went in the garage every day, which wouldn't have been easy with a full size truck.
 

wunjee

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Also, Jeep should just suck up their pride and build the damn J6.

People like it. People want it. People have been drooling over it since the concept was built. Stop trying to force everyone into a 4-door and stop giving your enthusiast base the middle finger with your haughty "Huhuhu it has 2 doors! 2 on each side" crap.
 

AlexB

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Also, Jeep should just suck up their pride and build the damn J6.

People like it. People want it. People have been drooling over it since the concept was built. Stop trying to force everyone into a 4-door and stop giving your enthusiast base the middle finger with your haughty "Huhuhu it has 2 doors! 2 on each side" crap.
Again, nobody is willing to buy 2 door outside of Chevy. Wrangler sells way better as 4 door, and Stellantis is not a charity.
 

patfromigh

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Relearn how to make a Sedan.... ha ha ha ha ha.....

Nothing has to be relearned as long as the Koreans are willing to make them at low margin and consumer continue to be willing to pay more for taller hatch vehicles there is nothing to relearn.

Consumer will need to be willing to pay more for sedans and outside the performance segment I would not hold my breath for that to change when efficiency is coming through power train not a less useful shape.
You seemed to have missed the word practical in my statement. Sedans can also have a useful shape, it's up to the designers. This would make sedan practical.

Working for a rental fleet, I have become very familiar with Nissan products. All their sedans look alike. The crazy thing is as one goes up in size of the Nissan sedan offerings the interior room seems to stay the same. This is because they make the center console larger as the sedan offering grows larger and this eats up interior volume. It just seems there isn't much difference between a Versa, Sentra and Altima. Maybe whats under the hood is different, but it's still connected to a CVT.

The irony of efficient power trains is that the croosovers and other utility vehicles have more room for batteries. I suspect that also drives the move away from sedans. Lets face it, nobody is going to rush out to buy an econobox when the next fuel "crisis" hits, as consumers have done the past. Not when there are hybrid crossovers or smaller pickup trucks like the Ford Maverick available, which have combined utility and efficiency.

Getting back to the topic at hand, Ram should offer the Toro/1000 here. I have seen some of the revues on YouTube for the 2022 Toro. I think it should be federalized and sold here. It will have to be built somewhere closer than Brazil however, because of logistics and production line capacity.
 

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