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Dodge’s Next Vehicle Will Be A SUV Dubbed The “Hornet” For 2023:

Dodge’s Next Vehicle Will Be A SUV Dubbed The “Hornet” For 2023:​

Hornet Nameplate Will Return For Upcoming SUV...​



It seems like forever ago, but back in November 2019, we discussed Dodge's intentions of bringing a new performance SUV to the market to replace the gap in the lineup left by the successful Dodge Journey. Now while the Dodge brand continues to boast itself as a high-performance"muscle car" brand in the United States and Canada, there are a few Dodge brand vehicles outside the United States and Canada that are still based on front-wheel-drive architectures.

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bill burke

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This may not be the SUV I expected for Dodge, but it certainly is a good choice, if properly executed. It must be aggressive in styling and performance. No milk-toast engine please, it must use the most powerful turbo 4 available and be tuned for performance handling. The Hornet must pack real “sting” or it will dilute the Dodge muscle image so successfully cultivated for years. It notably is the first step by Dodge to the next generation of muscle car definition and importantly and not to be dismissed, a lot is riding on the Hornet to get this right. As desperately as Dodge needs an SUV, being the right SUV is critically more important. I am sure there will be a critical eye turned to it’s place of manufacture, another challenge facing Dodge with this decision, another issue that can impact the Hornet and has to be addressed from the get go,. An American muscle car built in Italy will absolutely be a journalistic issue and one story line sure to be exploited by the press. The Hornet also holds out renewed hope that the Chrysler brand will receive an SUV soon too, please. Clearly this is a needed vehicle for Dodge, but even more clearly a lot more is at stake than just filling a nich for anything that looks like an SUV. The Hornet is a game changer, make no mistake. Oh yes, love the name.
 

TripleT

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It will be interesting to see if it has new body panels or just front and end caps.

This will be a phase 2 lightening car so the Power to Weight should be excellent if Pepe Le Cheapskate does cost down the innovation out of it.

So it should be sustainably better handling and quicker then other SUSW models
 

Archknight

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It will be interesting to see if it has new body panels or just front and end caps.

This will be a phase 2 lightening car so the Power to Weight should be excellent if Pepe Le Cheapskate does cost down the innovation out of it.

So it should be sustainably better handling and quicker then other SUSW models
I agree, making it as light as possible will be key. I feel like they are giving them a FWD variant for FE reasons as well, since no Dodge currently has a high mpg. They most likely will offer mild hybrids across the board on this. Since the 1.5T is expected to boost 200+hp, the 2.0T variant is likely to be well over 300+hp.

I'm just hoping they don't handicap its appeal with dark interiors. If they are going after handling in this segment they might as well benchmark the Countryman, for a CUV it still feels like it's riding on rails. With Dodge also being known for customization, I'm sure that's another reason this makes sense for their lineup.
 

thatjerryguy

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According to the report, the Dodge Hornet will start production a year from now. Therefore we should be seeing prototypes and test mules hitting the streets any day now. Right?
 

Archknight

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I'm very curious to see if this takes on a sporty baby Durango look or a new design language? I know it'll likely be the widest and longest in the segment.

This would also be a NA exclusive model, it would make more sense for them to produce it here than to import it over. Wouldn't one of the plants here have capacity to make this once the Journey and Caravan are gone?
 
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AlexB

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I'm very curious to see if this takes on a sporty baby Durango look or a new design language? I know it'll likely be the widest and longest in the segment.

This would also be a NA exclusive model, it would make more sense for them to produce it here than to import it over. Wouldn't one of the plants here have capacity to make this once the Journey and Caravan are gone?
Nope wouldn’t make sense for production inside of North American , because of the margin structure of North America.
 

TripleT

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Nope wouldn’t make sense for production inside of North American , because of the margin structure of North America.

And depending on how much is shares with the Tonale, you would have to import the parts, or tool in the USA, make it even more expensive to produce. Phase 2 lightening means it will have more exotic components then the Stelvio and Giulia.

As for seeing Prototypes.... Yeah how you going to tell it from the Tonale... cap covers?
 

AlexB

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This may not be the SUV I expected for Dodge, but it certainly is a good choice, if properly executed. It must be aggressive in styling and performance. No milk-toast engine please, it must use the most powerful turbo 4 available and be tuned for performance handling. The Hornet must pack real “sting” or it will dilute the Dodge muscle image so successfully cultivated for years. It notably is the first step by Dodge to the next generation of muscle car definition and importantly and not to be dismissed, a lot is riding on the Hornet to get this right. As desperately as Dodge needs an SUV, being the right SUV is critically more important. I am sure there will be a critical eye turned to it’s place of manufacture, another challenge facing Dodge with this decision, another issue that can impact the Hornet and has to be addressed from the get go,. An American muscle car built in Italy will absolutely be a journalistic issue and one story line sure to be exploited by the press.
I got disagree with your“ critical eye” theory (agree with most of the rest of your post) .
First the Media won’t care because of social/society (in the past they would) except for some in Detroit media, but highly obvious that John Elkann doesn’t care what Detroit Media thinks.
In fact being made in Italy will be something the Company especially John will celebrate as A: His Family and Stellantis commitment to Italy; B:Auto Mergers do indeed work.

Finally the last reason, it fits with Sergio’s idea to handle Italian Capacity for long-term margins:Focus on products that can be exports of value to other nations rather than filling Italian local demand (similar to the Germans).
 

TripleT

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it is interesting that so many will demand more product, but then want to attach all sorts of conditions on it that basically make it unviable.

People for a long time were perfectly fine with Dodges made in Japan..... Fords and GMs..... all are made in different parts of the world beyond people not seeming to care, they don't seem to know. I sure deep in the bowels of some forum people complain but consumers are mostly oblivions.
 

Bili

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Hornet SOP was planned roughly half a year after Tonale SOP. But Tonale SOP has been pushed back by 3 months and will start in March 2022. This would mean that Hornet SOP whould be in late summer or early autumn 2022 with start of sales in early 2023.

Do not expect miracles on the engine side. Tonale will bring the new 1.5 liter small bore engine. I mean, every FIRE and now GSE/FireFly has a very compact bore spacing which is 77 mm, the smallest in the car industry.
It's a GSE/FireFly family engine and in the Europe it should replace 1.3 liter GSE/FireFly. So as I said do not expect miracles on the engine side in terms of power level, not at the very beginning or in the first year of production.

This new 1.5 turbo is a fuel economy oriented engine and I'm not sure that we'll see it in US fairly soon. Why? It's a P2 MHEV. That means that an electric motor is embedded in transmission. This is the same as for full hybrids. But transmission in question should be a Getrag/Magna sourced 7 speed wet DCT. Wet means that clutches are in oil bath, i.e. they are not dry.
AFAIK Getrag has already prepared production line at Košice plant in Slovakia.
So DCT is the reason why we may not see it in the US.
This MHEV is nothing like currently present on the market.

2.0 turbo? Dunno. For Tonale it will not be there in the first year of production or at least till the end of calendar 2022. I'm speaking about Europe. Don't have info for US market.

@TripleT
Lightweight Phase 2? I'm not sure, it could be. This is already 2021 and a lot has been improved in terms of materials in comparison to Giulia and Stelvio. Even in "regular" materials like steel. There are more and more Gen 3 steels.

Handling? Torsional rigidity helps but usually it adds weight which can be somewhat mitigated. But what they can easily improve in comparison to current Small Wide offering is suspension. For example lower unsprung mass with use of mre exotic or expensive materials. Cars on CUSW or Giorgio have a lot of aluminium suspension parts which is not the case with current crop of Small Wide.
 

bill burke

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I got disagree with your“ critical eye” theory (agree with most of the rest of your post) .
First the Media won’t care because of social/society (in the past they would) except for some in Detroit media, but highly obvious that John Elkann doesn’t care what Detroit Media thinks.
In fact being made in Italy will be something the Company especially John will celebrate as A: His Family and Stellantis commitment to Italy; B:Auto Mergers do indeed work.

Finally the last reason, it fits with Sergio’s idea to handle Italian Capacity for long-term margins:Focus on products that can be exports of value to other nations rather than filling Italian local demand (similar to the Germans).
Hope your right on the Italy thing, it is no issue for me but the auto press”needs” a story line, any story line and I don’t expect a pass on this thing. It also plays well with Italian unions, always a thorn in the side of industry.
 

bill burke

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it is interesting that so many will demand more product, but then want to attach all sorts of conditions on it that basically make it unviable.

People for a long time were perfectly fine with Dodges made in Japan..... Fords and GMs..... all are made in different parts of the world beyond people not seeming to care, they don't seem to know. I sure deep in the bowels of some forum people complain but consumers are mostly oblivions.
You make a good point, these conditions are more a fan wish list than demands or expectations carved in stone. Most of us realize that what will be will be, but that Dodge performance formula is fundamental to the brand as is how Dodge transitions that formula. One should not dismiss the role the Hornet could play in that transition. A quest for more power, some how, is an important issue. I’ll take the Hornet with a smile.
 

bill burke

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HMMMM.... You would have thought this would have been a good time to reintroduce the Journey name?
Seriously? That may be a foolish journey if anyone pitched that one in the board room.
 

justbekuz

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it is interesting that so many will demand more product, but then want to attach all sorts of conditions on it that basically make it unviable.

People for a long time were perfectly fine with Dodges made in Japan..... Fords and GMs..... all are made in different parts of the world beyond people not seeming to care, they don't seem to know. I sure deep in the bowels of some forum people complain but consumers are mostly oblivions.
(not so) Funny that Buicks produced and shipped from China that are 'acceptable' with the U.S Consumer in light of the current issues and grandstanding. While the Renegade comes from Poland and has been relatively 'accepted', it will be interesting to see if Peugeot-French Based designs will be accepted here in light of past Renualt-French acceptance here!
 

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