Gasoline Charger production news

[TripleT]

Ask Chic Fil A or Canes. Dodge won’t survive on Hemis alone. If people are dumb enough to not buy a Dodge product because they call the sixpack a muscle car when the Hemi does become available that’s their problem. If anything Dodge doesn’t have enough drive train variety.

Mostly because aside from the Hellcat, the Apache and Eagle are not competitive in the marketplace in anything other the dBs. And while Ford and GM still offer V8s it is not in volume. At the moment GM likely wishing they hadn't.

The reality is Hemi buyer is a passionate and loud niche market. They need to produce good, efficient, quick, and reliable powertrain for the mass market. For sure they painted themselves in the corner from a Marketing Perspective lets see if TK can dig his way out.

The 2.0L with the ZF hybrid trans should be offered in every STLA large. Is should be in the Dakota, even maybe the Ram. They are woefully behind on Hybirds, bread and butter is not Hemi. The primary reason is marketing and drive traffic.

 

[Ryan]

Nobody is going to buy the six packs, they sound atrocious -

Trump may grant a tariff exemption to the Charger if Stellantis brings some degree of Canada or Mexico production to the US.

V8 Charger is the only thing that will sell.

What percentage of Chargers and Challengers were V8? I see a hell of a lot more V6 models than V8.

 

[TripleT]

What percentage of Chargers and Challengers were V8? I see a hell of a lot more V6 models than V8.

Pretty funny when V6 Chargers outsold the Hemi charger 2 to 1. Do people just like to make spit up?

And as it is Challenger V6 outsold the Hemi... and that shocks the heck out of me but it was closer to even.

Its putting ones own preference into the grand market. Most people don't want to be louder and thirstier. They want to go from point a to point b, efficiently and with style.

 

[Mopar392]

Volume sellers of Charger and Challenger are V6 and fleet.
I do agree to replace the V6 with a more powerful and efficient turbo 4 cylinder. This should lower the mpg and emissions average of the cars.
Dodge and US portion of Stellantis still needs to think about what is going to happen during the next presidential run, and they should not keep shooting themselves in the foot.
As much as I hate the EV, but they have to be sold in parallel for the same reason as well.
As much as the Hurricane engines have the performance on the paper, but if the people don’t want and they don’t sell, then it’s losing its business value.
The Ram, though still early to paint the full picture, proofed that people will buy what they want and not what is being offered. They offering the HEMI along with the SO Hurricane in the low and middle trims and keeping the high trims with the HO Hurricane.
A strategy that Charger could benefit from to increase the sales.

 

[TripleT]

Volume sellers of Charger and Challenger are V6 and fleet.
I do agree to replace the V6 with a more powerful and efficient turbo 4 cylinder. This should lower the mpg and emissions average of the cars.
Dodge and US portion of Stellantis still needs to think about what is going to happen during the next presidential run, and they should not keep shooting themselves in the foot.
As much as I hate the EV, but they have to be sold in parallel for the same reason as well.
As much as the Hurricane engines have the performance on the paper, but if the people don’t want and they don’t sell, then it’s losing its business value.
The Ram, though still early to paint the full picture, proofed that people will buy what they want and not what is being offered. They offering the HEMI along with the SO Hurricane in the low and middle trims and keeping the high trims with the HO Hurricane.
A strategy that Charger could benefit from to increase the sales.

look operationally under Carlo the Company was a disaster that they haven't recovered from, but nearly as bad has been the Marketing. It not that people don't want the Hurricane... they haven't been sold on it. It similar to how no one explained what the Hornet was... it like take what we feed you attitude.

I have not single ads selling the new powerplant. NOT one. No explain, No HEY ITS FAST .... zip zero nodda. I don't think have the Hemi back solved that the company operationally is horrible at the moment and marketing has been complete crap.

Ram sales are suffering more from the lose of the Classic and lack of marketing then anything else. Hell MT picked Truck of the Year because of power plant. NOTHING ABOUT IT>

 

[cygnus]

What percentage of Chargers and Challengers were V8? I see a hell of a lot more V6 models than V8.

Where have you been!?!

I never said there isn't a place for six cylinder vehicles. The problem is that the hurricane has huge cost and complexity for something that people aren't really clamoring for. Bring back the Pentastar, it was a hell of a lot cheap to manufacture than the Hurricane. And six cylinders may sell, but V8s are what bring in the profit for vehicle programs. V6 is table stakes/cost of doing business/volume. You need that aspirational offering to make it a profitable program. Ram 1500 sales have really declined since losing the Hemi, giving the 2nd place crown back to GM, without that V8 offering.

A four cylinder engine never, ever belongs in a Charger or Challenger. Ever. Go join the cult of 'Revive the Neon/Dart' that is Allpar and put a four cylinder in that.

 

[Mopar426]

Volume sellers of Charger and Challenger are V6 and fleet.
I do agree to replace the V6 with a more powerful and efficient turbo 4 cylinder. This should lower the mpg and emissions average of the cars.
Dodge and US portion of Stellantis still needs to think about what is going to happen during the next presidential run, and they should not keep shooting themselves in the foot.
As much as I hate the EV, but they have to be sold in parallel for the same reason as well.
As much as the Hurricane engines have the performance on the paper, but if the people don’t want and they don’t sell, then it’s losing its business value.
The Ram, though still early to paint the full picture, proofed that people will buy what they want and not what is being offered. They offering the HEMI along with the SO Hurricane in the low and middle trims and keeping the high trims with the HO Hurricane.
A strategy that Charger could benefit from to increase the sales.

The EV route should have been taken with a Dodge CUV competitor to the Chevy Trail Blazer instead of the Charger. It could have had the fake exhaust and nobody would have cared, they probably would have got some volume out of it. They could have also offered it as a 4cyl hybrid and the fleets would love that version. Something sized between a Hornet and Durango.

Doing this with Charger was a really bad take

 

[patfromigh]

The EV route should have been taken with a Dodge CUV competitor to the Chevy Trail Blazer instead of the Charger. It could have had the fake exhaust and nobody would have cared, they probably would have got some volume out of it. They could have also offered it as a 4cyl hybrid and the fleets would love that version. Something sized between a Hornet and Durango.

Doing this with Charger was a really bad take

Nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody, asked for a 3-ton performance sedan. No government agency had a minimum weight rule for battery electric vehicles. Somebody in Europe, either in France or Holland, made the decision for the battery electric Charger. Thinking that an expensive overweight sedan will help towards CAFE is stupidity. A manufacturer has to sell a product first before it counts towards the fleet average and if customers aren't asking for something, there is a good chance they won't buy it.

Dodge tried to copy Tesla and their Model S Plaid with that modlel's "Ludicrous Speed" mode. Instead consumers were presented with an overpriced sedan that is obviously only ludicrous.

 

[99GTS]

I say offer everything if it sells enough to justify. EV, V6, I6TT, and both N.A. and supercharged V8s.

Supercharged V8s may not be the biggest seller but I’d wager my bottom dollar that they provide a much better halo effect than an EV or I6TT. People drooled over the hellcat but that brought them in to buy a 392, R/T, or SXT. I’m sure it’s hard to quantify but Challenger/Charger sales took a huge bump post 2015 after the hellcat became huge news, didn’t they?

Offer them in RWD and AWD with RWD mode.

I’d love to say offer a manual transmission too but I understand there probably isn’t a business case for that with how low the manual take rate was on the hellcats post 2019 redeye. Personally, I love my 23 manual cat and don’t mind that it’s slower than the autos.

Not many companies offer something to suit almost everyone’s tastes. Mercedes is the only one in recent memory.

 

[TripleT]

Nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody, asked for a 3-ton performance sedan. No government agency had a minimum weight rule for battery electric vehicles. Somebody in Europe, either in France or Holland, made the decision for the battery electric Charger. Thinking that an expensive overweight sedan will help towards CAFE is stupidity. A manufacturer has to sell a product first before it counts towards the fleet average and if customers aren't asking for something, there is a good chance they won't buy it.

Dodge tried to copy Tesla and their Model S Plaid with that modlel's "Ludicrous Speed" mode. Instead consumers were presented with an overpriced sedan that is obviously only ludicrous.

There is nothing wrong with a EV Charger, the problem was there was only a EV charger. One of the Mods here has one and likes it.

 

[cygnus]

There is nothing wrong with a EV Charger, the problem was there was only a EV charger. One of the Mods here has one and likes it.

You need to sell 50-60K EV Chargers a year to break even on the cost. They are absolutely nowhere close to that. The EV Charger is going to be cancelled for the 2027 MY, watch.

 

[Mopar426]

They are fully aware the local economy rests on the hemi, pretty funny actually

 

[Mopar426]

You need to sell 50-60K EV Chargers a year to break even on the cost. They are absolutely nowhere close to that. The EV Charger is going to be cancelled for the 2027 MY, watch.

If the I6 and hemi cars start to take off sales wise they'll have to kill the EV as they wont have room for them, if there is room some iteration of it may survive as a compliance car, even if its just kept in their back pocket come 2028

 

[TripleT]

I think there a long way from being capacity constrained in Winsor. The EV is already constrained by the battery anyway. Personally, I don't think AWD Hemi and Hurricane would every use up the capacity. The only way the Capacity gets used up is RWD 2.0Ts. The Hemi was NEVER a volume driver. the Pentastar drove actual volume, the Hemi drove margin.

 

[Mopar392]

Regardless of the engine choice, a Pentastar or 2.0T, they need a sub-$35k to drive volume.

 

[TripleT]

Let the old less competitive engine retire with pride.

 

[VANISHING POINT #1]

You're making the same mistake so many other people are making. You're regurgitating the "Hurricane is superior!" myth based solely upon ONE metric: horsepower on paper.

Here's the reality: the Hurricane engine, like most engines from Europe, has been littered with problems. And, since it's significantly oversophisticated, those problems are expensive and time consuming to repair. Fourteen hours to do a water pump?? Twenty-two hours to do a timing chain?? It's just madness. Wait until those engines are out of warranty. People will be mad as hell. Then let's talk maintenance. Have you seen under a Ram/Wagoneer lately? Because of the twin turbo exhaust routing, you can't even service the transmission fluid without removing the exhaust. And you can't pull an engine dipstick to visually inspect oil condition. We won't even go into the way the engine sounds like a Hoover vacuum cleaner, or the way it drinks fuel like it's sponsored by OPEC with a trailer behind it or when the throttle is mashed for fun. When you get time, go over to the Jeep Wagoneer forum and poke around in the "problems/issues" section. HOURS of reading.

There is not a chance that the Hurricane is "superior" to the Hemi. In no category. There will never be a Demon with a Hurricane engine running 9.65 in the 1/4 mile. There will never be a Hurricane that gets significantly better fuel economy than a V8. There will never be a Hurricane that routinely shows more longevity than a V8. There will never be a Hurricane that puts a smile on the driver's face upon pressing the ignition start button on a cold morning. There will never be a Hurricane that provides the linear, smooth driving experience of a Hemi. There will never be a Hurricane with the resale value of a V8. There will never be a Hurricane that a person can work on at home and keep on the road for decades like a V8. It's just not going to happen.

The fact of the matter is that CDJR had two options: keep paying for carbon credits and EPA fines while simultaneously selling vehicles like hotcakes, OR ditch the V8s in favor of lower emissions at the risk of gutting their sales and ruining the company. Unfortunately the idiot who was CEO at the time chose the latter. And now it's upon Mr. Kiniskis to try and save the ship....and he's doing it the best way; by bringing back the powertrains that people want.

They never learn.

 

[VANISHING POINT #1]

Volume sellers of Charger and Challenger are V6 and fleet.
I do agree to replace the V6 with a more powerful and efficient turbo 4 cylinder. This should lower the mpg and emissions average of the cars.
Dodge and US portion of Stellantis still needs to think about what is going to happen during the next presidential run, and they should not keep shooting themselves in the foot.
As much as I hate the EV, but they have to be sold in parallel for the same reason as well.
As much as the Hurricane engines have the performance on the paper, but if the people don’t want and they don’t sell, then it’s losing its business value.
The Ram, though still early to paint the full picture, proofed that people will buy what they want and not what is being offered. They offering the HEMI along with the SO Hurricane in the low and middle trims and keeping the high trims with the HO Hurricane.
A strategy that Charger could benefit from to increase the sales.

The V6 Penstar was the bread and butter of all the different models. Considered to be the base engine. Lower in purchase price, lower insurance and lower maintenance than the V8 models.

 

[TripleT]

They never learn.

It’s the durable V8 myth.. V8 Charger was never the volume. The Truck Hemi doesn’t have a durability reputation, the Truck Coyote doesn’t, and certainly not LT. Hemi is on many list of highest cost to own. And a decade ago the potency was worth it. Outside the Hellcat the engine just is competitive anymore. Not even with powerplant within STLA … the insistence that the company remain static will kill it. The only thing the Hemi has going for it now is one of the best marketing campaigns in history and a loud exhaust

 

[TripleT]

The V6 Penstar was the bread and butter of all the different models. Considered to be the base engine. Lower in purchase price, lower insurance and lower maintenance than the V8 models.

V8 drove traffic and margin. V6 volume and cash flow…..