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What we know or think we know about the upcoming I6

Freshforged

Freshforged

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  1. Will be called the GME 6. Possibly GME T6 ETorque.
  2. Will come in standard as well as turbocharged form.
  3. Will likely be just shy of 3 liters displacement.
  4. Will be designed from the ground up for hybrid compatibility.
  5. Will de targeted at current entry-level Hemi performance/cost sweet spot.
  6. Will show up first in the Grand Cherokee (2020), possibly not at introduction.
  7. Will eventually be found in Ram 1500s, Dodge Challenger/Charger and Durango, Jeep Grand Cherokee and Wagoneer(s)
  8. Versions will be found in Maserati and Alfa Romeo models.
 
Last edited:
Freshforged said:
  1. Will be called the GME 6. Possibly GME T6 ETorque.
  2. Will come in standard as well as turbocharged form.
  3. Will likely be just shy of 3 liters displacement.
  4. Will be designed from the ground up for hybrid compatibility.
  5. Will de targeted at current entry-level Hemi performance/cost sweet spot.
  6. Will show up first in the Grand Cherokee (2020), possibly not at introduction.
  7. Will eventually be found in Ram 1500s, Dodge Challenger/Charger and Durango, Jeep Grand Cherokee and Wagoneer(s)
  8. Versions will be found in Maserati and Alfa Romeo models.
Click to expand...

First GME-T6 vehicle will be the WL. ;)
 
redriderbob said:
First GME-T6 vehicle will be the WL. ;)
Click to expand...

When?


Freshforged said:
  1. Will be called the GME 6. Possibly GME T6 ETorque.
  2. Will come in standard as well as turbocharged form.
  3. Will likely be just shy of 3 liters displacement.
  4. Will be designed from the ground up for hybrid compatibility.
  5. Will de targeted at current entry-level Hemi performance/cost sweet spot.
  6. Will show up first in the Grand Cherokee (2020), possibly not at introduction.
  7. Will eventually be found in Ram 1500s, Dodge Challenger/Charger and Durango, Jeep Grand Cherokee and Wagoneer(s)
  8. Versions will be found in Maserati and Alfa Romeo models.
Click to expand...

E.Torque is system which can be fitted on any engine. It's a belt driven 48V mild hybrid system. It's a P0 system or how FCA calls it a P1F ('F' as front) system.
I'm expecting more advanced P2 48V mild hybrid in the future. FCA has it in the plans. Which engines or vehicles will receive it?

I don't believe that Alfa will use it. Maybe Maserati.
Alfa has their own V6 90° which is based on Ferrari V8. It has 510 HP. They are working on a 600+ HP version of that engine with e-turbo. Target is 650 HP.
For lesser power level the have 2.0 GME 4 in the plans. With e-turbo capable for at least 350 HP.

At least Alfa's electrification plan is no secret:2.jpg
On the left is a P1F belt driven system. It could be a Magneti Marelli e.Torque system or something very similar from a different supplier.

In the middle is a e-turbo. Usually it's related with a P2 48V mild hybrid technology but not necessary.

On the right is a PHEV. Different system compared to a one on Pacifica. Actually FCA has at least two PHEV systems in the development which are not related to Pacifica's system. AFAIK one system is for a FWD based cars with a rear e-axle. It should debut on Renegade.
The other one is a system for RWD based cars. Most likely it will use ZF 8HP transmission.
 
You might be right in regard to the I6 and Alfa Romeo—even using 48v subsystems to shorten the length of a dressed engine, this will still likely be a long block, and they exist in a system which puts a premium on constraining the overall length of the vehicle. Maserati saloons, however being a high-end luxury vehicle, can afford the European licensing fees that might trip up the more moderately priced Alfa’s. With the “carbon footprint” regulations in place now, we seem to be going the other direction.
 
@Freshforged

Alfa is all about handling. Small weight, good power to weight ratio.

It's no wonder that for Alfa they are working on a 350 HP versions of a 4 cylinder GME.

AFAIK Maserati will keep a 6 cylinder engine for similar power level.
So maybe they will use GME 6. I don't know.
Contract beetwen Maserati and Ferrari engine supply runs through 2020.

Maserati as a small manufacturer which is considered separate from FCA for a CO2 emissions in EU has a relatively easy fleet CO2 target to reach.

European CO2 fleet emmisions are production volume and car weight related.
 
Bili said:
@Freshforged

Alfa is all about handling. Small weight, good power to weight ratio.

It's no wonder that for Alfa they are working on a 350 HP versions of a 4 cylinder GME.

AFAIK Maserati will keep a 6 cylinder engine for similar power level.
So maybe they will use GME 6. I don't know.
Contract beetwen Maserati and Ferrari engine supply runs through 2020.

Maserati as a small manufacturer which is considered separate from FCA for a CO2 emissions in EU has a relatively easy fleet CO2 target to reach.

European CO2 fleet emmisions are production volume and car weight related.
Click to expand...
It won’t be a strait engine transplant into a Maserati, no doubt they will get Ferrari to work their magic and make it unique.
 
Freshforged said:
It won’t be a strait engine transplant into a Maserati, no doubt they will get Ferrari to work their magic and make it unique.
Click to expand...

IMO that's not necessary. P2 mild hybrid with e-booster, MultiAir III. It could work for Maserati. For Maserati and it's GT nature big engines are essential. Not big as American big but bigger than inside of Alfa.

AFAIK Mercedes Inline 6 with e-booster starts at 362 HP. Maserati could offer something similar.

For engine with higher specific power Vee configuration has its advantages. FCA has options even for that.

We will see. As Sergio once said: "Less sharing at the top of engine offerings".
 
Numerical Investigation of Steady-State and Transient Operations of a Turbocharged SI Engine with Electric Supercharger

The engine considered in this work is a four-cylinder inline, turbocharged and electrically supercharged engine by FCA.
Click to expand...

This thesis is the culmination of a two year Double Degree Master program that was possible only thanks to the collaboration and organization efforts of two universities, University of Windsor and Politecnico di Torino, and a leading group in the automotive sector, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles. Therefore I would like to express my deepest appreciation to the persons who representing the aforementioned institutions played a very important role in coordinating this ambitious program, Dr. Andrzej Sobiesiak from University of Windsor, Prof. Giovanni Belingardi from Politecnico di Torino, Edoardo Rabino from FCA Italy and Mohammed Malik and Ishika Towfic from FCA Canada.
Click to expand...


Engine is a 4 cylinder with a maximum BMEP at 3000 rpm. Also it has a dual VVT without VVL, discrete or MultiAir. It has a twin scroll turbo.

So it must be an American version of GME which is a DOHC with VVT and has a maximum torque of 400 Nm at 3000 rpm.

With E.Booster maximum BEMP is at 2000 rpm compared to a 3000 rpm without it.

I must yet again look at numbers. But from I can remember version with E.Booster reaches 90% BEMP max at slightly more then 0.6 seconds. Without it needs more than 2 secondas, I think around 2.5 seconds.


Now just a hypotheticaly speaking.
Imagine GME 6 with this technology. Around 400 HP and 600 Nm at 2000 rpm without noticeable turbo lag.
 
Resurrecting this thread because there’s just so much half truth over at the other place and I refuse to post there any longer.

The primary reason for the new I-6 is cost. The cost to produce the Pentastar is just too great. Add to that the limitations in producing a HO version, and you’ve got a dead end engine family. The 3.0T6 MUST BE significantly cheaper to produce if it’s going to meet project goals. Once that’s achieved, I’m sur we will see limited run specialty versions with insane hp/torque numbers, ala the HEMI/Hellcat/Helliphant line.
 
That being said, it can’t simply be a 2.0T4 with two cylinders tacked on—it won’t fit. So expect narrow bores, cast-in-place liners, and more likely than not a pulley-less auxiliary system using 48 v electrical service. The gambit being played is that the initial high cost of implementing these technologies will have gone down enough to make a high volume engine possible. We shall see.
 
Freshforged said:
That being said, it can’t simply be a 2.0T4 with two cylinders tacked on—it won’t fit. So expect narrow bores, cast-in-place liners, and more likely than not a pulley-less auxiliary system using 48 v electrical service. The gambit being played is that the initial high cost of implementing these technologies will have gone down enough to make a high volume engine possible. We shall see.
Click to expand...

It is a completely different engine... the blocks are very very different.
 
Bili said:
When?




E.Torque is system which can be fitted on any engine. It's a belt driven 48V mild hybrid system. It's a P0 system or how FCA calls it a P1F ('F' as front) system.
I'm expecting more advanced P2 48V mild hybrid in the future. FCA has it in the plans. Which engines or vehicles will receive it?

I don't believe that Alfa will use it. Maybe Maserati.
Alfa has their own V6 90° which is based on Ferrari V8. It has 510 HP. They are working on a 600+ HP version of that engine with e-turbo. Target is 650 HP.
For lesser power level the have 2.0 GME 4 in the plans. With e-turbo capable for at least 350 HP.

At least Alfa's electrification plan is no secret:View attachment 907
On the left is a P1F belt driven system. It could be a Magneti Marelli e.Torque system or something very similar from a different supplier.

In the middle is a e-turbo. Usually it's related with a P2 48V mild hybrid technology but not necessary.

On the right is a PHEV. Different system compared to a one on Pacifica. Actually FCA has at least two PHEV systems in the development which are not related to Pacifica's system. AFAIK one system is for a FWD based cars with a rear e-axle. It should debut on Renegade.
The other one is a system for RWD based cars. Most likely it will use ZF 8HP transmission.
Click to expand...

E-Booster will play a huge part in GME-T6.
 
Freshforged said:
  1. Will be called the GME 6. Possibly GME T6 ETorque.
  2. Will come in standard as well as turbocharged form.
  3. Will likely be just shy of 3 liters displacement.
  4. Will be designed from the ground up for hybrid compatibility.
  5. Will de targeted at current entry-level Hemi performance/cost sweet spot.
  6. Will show up first in the Grand Cherokee (2020), possibly not at introduction.
  7. Will eventually be found in Ram 1500s, Dodge Challenger/Charger and Durango, Jeep Grand Cherokee and Wagoneer(s)
  8. Versions will be found in Maserati and Alfa Romeo models.
Click to expand...

1.) GME-T6 is the official name.
2.) Yes
3,) No
4.) Yes it will have capability
5.) Sort of, it will be between the 3.6-liter Pentastar and entry level HEMIs... replacing the Pentastar on certain models. Being an inline-6 the GME-T6 has less parts and will be cheaper to build than a V6 engine
6.) Yes, WL which according to my sources constantly flip-flops between 2020 and 2021 model year debut. I am saying 2021 to be on the safe side. Yes, it will be offered at launch.
7.) As I said above it will be offered on a wide range of RWD-based Chrysler Group products. Charger, Challenger, the new Durango, Wagoneer, Ram 1500 and I am hearing eventually Wrangler when it gets its refresh.
8.) A specific version might find its way to Alfa Romeo, but more than likely not for Maserati. FCA US is doing the core engineering development on this engine. Actually as I said before, a lot of the Viper engine team are doing the engineering. So expect this thing to be heavily over engineered for more boost.
 
redriderbob said:
E-Booster will play a huge part in GME-T6.
Click to expand...

You've said this a long time ago. Was it removed?

redriderbob said:
8.) A specific version might find its way to Alfa Romeo, but more than likely not for Maserati. FCA US is doing the core engineering development on this engine. Actually as I said before, a lot of the Viper engine team are doing the engineering. So expect this thing to be heavily over engineered for more boost.
Click to expand...

I have a different opinion. Big engines, and 3 liter is a big for Alfa, is more in Maserati's tradition and Maserati has bigger cars in its lineup in company to Alfa.

The only Alfa Romeo car which I can see version of this engine is big SUV.

And... For sports cars. Is it better to choose V6 or Inline 6 and why?
 
One thing is for certain, if it’s cylinder bank is canted even half of one degree, it will be nicknamed the Slant Six
 
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