Tonale postponed by 3 months?

[Bili]

Some of you may look at the news from one particular media outlets. The news says that the Tonale SOP was postponed by 3 months. From October to January.

I must inform you that MI team is well aware of production date for quite some time, date which predates official merger of PSA and FCA. In the article they said that the postponement has happened after the January 19th. That's not true.

Also the reason behind the postponement is not the one they had mentioned. At one time like in mid 2020 they did feasibility study for Tonale on PSA EMP2 platform. It was discarded by Pietro Gorlier who was at the time FCA COO for EMEA region. For reward he was not named in Stellantis' TOP 44 managers. He is still handling the spare parts but which are not called Mopar anymore.

They also have the task to bring costs down. They made one important action to achieve this goal. @redriderbob knows what it is and he may mention it if he wants. Some of you will be happy with this. With the way of have are they handling part of the cost cuts.
I must say that amount of cash saving per car which PSA or Tavares had put upon Pomigliano team is huge. I can not say how much but it's huge. I was shocked when I saw it.

 

[redriderbob]

Its the PHEV model that is delayed. We will have more on this information soon.

 

[Bili]

The mentioned media outlets say that the Tonale is postponed altogether. But postponement had already happened. It's not something new.

 

[pumadog]

I just read several (copy) articles about the delay and they all concentrate on the PHEV version. If only that needs a delay, they can present all versions at in time and start with deliveries of the ICE versions first.

What I wondered for some time: The Tonale PHEV (and the 4xe Jeeps) was announced to have 50 km electric range. At least in Germany a PHEV needs to have 60 km from 2022 to apply for subsidy/tax benefits. Updates needed for all!

Apart from that it reminds me of the overblown Giulia postponement stories in 2016.

 

[cygnus]

I must say that amount of cash per car which PSA or Tavares had put upon Pomigliano team is huge. I can not say how much but it's huge. I was shocked when I saw it.

Are you referring to Tavares' expectations of profit per vehicle sold?

 

[Bili]

Apart from that it reminds me of the overblown Giulia postponement stories in 2016.

It was the same author. Back then he said that Giulia has NVH issues and that it failed all of internal crash tests. Few months later Giulia hit the market and posted at the time the highest EuroNCAP safety score for Adult Occupants. This just proved that at least the reason why Giulia was late was wrong. Failed crash tests would mean fundamental fails during the design phase and much longer postponement, surely not just few months.

For Tonale I've spoken. Already delay was from September/October to December/January SOP. And that's for ICE versions. MHEV and PHEV SOP is later during the Q1 2022.
Something is wrong with the article but I don't know exactly what.

Compass is a P4 PHEV set-up for performance. Peugeot has P2 PHEV set-up for fuel consumption but in this case it has 225 HP on paper and in practice around 2 seconds slower 0-60 time than Compass.
Peugeot 3008 also has P2P4 PHEV set-up with 300 HP. It has nice acceleration but not so nice fuel economy and weight. It weighs something like 2 metric tones. It's too much for proper Alfa Romeo.

Actually I'm not sure that Tonale was ever planned with the identical PHEV powertrain as Compass and Renegade. Same typology/scheme yes but I'm not sure about ICE power and electric motor power.

Are you referring to Tavares' expectations of profit per vehicle sold?

That's one of the things. Yet again media outlet we are indirectly mentioning said that the only cuts are being made in Italy while the same is done also in US and I believe in all ex-FCA factories.

 

[Deckard Cain]

I just read several (copy) articles about the delay and they all concentrate on the PHEV version. If only that needs a delay, they can present all versions at in time and start with deliveries of the ICE versions first.

What I wondered for some time: The Tonale PHEV (and the 4xe Jeeps) was announced to have 50 km electric range. At least in Germany a PHEV needs to have 60 km from 2022 to apply for subsidy/tax benefits. Updates needed for all!

Apart from that it reminds me of the overblown Giulia postponement stories in 2016.

I didn't know about that in Germany. Can I kindly ask if you could provide me with a source to read more about it?

 

[pumadog]

I didn't know about that in Germany. Can I kindly ask if you could provide me with a source to read more about it?

I stand half-corrected: That or emissions under 50 g/km. The reports I read have omitted this.

From 2022, the minimum (all-electric) range of subsidized hybrid vehicles must be 60 km or maximum CO2 emissions of 50 g/km. From 2025, the minimum range will then increase to 80 km (or max. CO2 emissions of 50 g/km).

Government source: Kabinett beschließt weitere steuerliche Förderung der Elektromobilität - Bundesfinanzministerium - Themen

 

[Deckard Cain]

Cool, thanks. I was surprised that FCA overlooked that, because it would also affect the Compass PHEV.

 

[Bili]

AFAIK CO2emissions are lower than 50 g/km

 

[KrisW]

From jeep.de

Renegade: 44 g/100km
Compass: 45.8 g/100km

These figures are for the pre-facelift models.