Stellents

[stellents]

Stellantis is destroying chrysler

 

[TripleT]

Welcome such an insightful first post.

Actually, Daimler fatally wounded Chrysler corporation. The Private equity folks in New York killed it. Fiat resurrected it. Mergers are doing what mergers do which is too consolidate redundant functions.

If one is talking about Chrysler the brand. Consumer have killed it. Frankly, the traditional Luxury Demographic is aging out of market. Brands like Lincoln, Cadillac, and Lexus have embraced CUVs and SUVs ..... as this relates to FCA it already owns a premium SUV brand. Sedan market only is still over capacity and dominated by brands able to operate in law margin space.

 

[patfromigh]

Brands like Lincoln, Cadillac, and Lexus have embraced CUVs and SUVs

People here and in another unnamed forum went ballistic when at one point FCA decided to make Chrysler a "people mover" brand. Management heard the screaming and changed their minds. Coincidentally, around that same time, Toyota did that with their Lexus brand. This past 6 months set a sales record for the Lexus brand in North America. Chrysler the brand is now on life support.

I have said this before, Stellantis should green light the Chrysler Halcyon concept. It should be a Leap C01 sedan with a different body having the exterior and interior styling coming from Chrysler. It can be made in Mexico using some domestic parts as well. The brand needs competitive crossovers as well.

I don't think Stellanis is destroying the legacy Chrysler corporation's brands on purpose, but their total lack of marketing savvy in North America will finish them off.

What the French influence did to the legacy North American brands is that when they saw a golden goose, they just had to make Foie Gras out of it.

 

[AlexB]

People here and in another unnamed forum went ballistic when at one point FCA decided to make Chrysler a "people mover" brand. Management heard the screaming and changed their minds. Coincidentally, around that same time, Toyota did that with their Lexus brand. This past 6 months set a sales record for the Lexus brand in North America. Chrysler the brand is now on life support.

I have said this before, Stellantis should green light the Chrysler Halcyon concept. It should be a Leap C01 sedan with a different body having the exterior and interior styling coming from Chrysler. It can be made in Mexico using some domestic parts as well. The brand needs competitive crossovers as well.

I don't think Stellanis is destroying the legacy Chrysler corporation's brands on purpose, but their total lack of marketing savvy in North America will finish them off.

What the French influence did to the legacy North American brands is that when they saw a golden goose, they just had to make Foie Gras out of it.

Wouldn't blame the French at all.
You have had 3 CEO's who all say Jeep is the main brand in North America: meaning John Elkann, the Chairman, second highest paid Employee (FIAT/FCA/Stellantis), and largest investor also thinks Jeep is the main brand in North America.
Why should Dodge & Chrysler step on Jeep?
Dodge should remain a speciality brand.
Chrysler brand either succeeds in EV's or goes away.

 

[patfromigh]

Jeep may be considered the main brand in North America, but it is not the exclusive brand.

Why should Dodge & Chrysler step on Jeep?

Jeep is stepping on Chrysler and to a lessor extent, Dodge. Dodge still has the Durango SUV, but the brand never properly replaced the Journey. The Journey replacement is the Latin American Jeep Commander. Chrysler should have had a crossover in that market segment, but one never appeared. You know who is stepping on Jeep? Toyota. The RAV4 dominates a rich market segment. There is a lot of space in this segment for entries by Jeep, Dodge and Chrysler.

Dodge should remain a speciality brand.

Dodge's specialty seems to be committing the brand to a played out fad. There will always be some demand for performance cars, but the market is cyclical and Dodge has priced itself out of its traditional blue collar hotrod identity. There is no depth to the Dodge lineup, placing the brand far out on a weak limb.

Chrysler brand either succeeds in EV's or goes away.

Then Chrysler will follow Fisker.

 

[AlexB]

Jeep may be considered the main brand in North America, but it is not the exclusive brand.

Jeep is stepping on Chrysler and to a lessor extent, Dodge. Dodge still has the Durango SUV, but the brand never properly replaced the Journey. The Journey replacement is the Latin American Jeep Commander. Chrysler should have had a crossover in that market segment, but one never appeared. You know who is stepping on Jeep? Toyota. The RAV4 dominates a rich market segment. There is a lot of space in this segment for entries by Jeep, Dodge and Chrysler.

Dodge's specialty seems to be committing the brand to a played out fad. There will always be some demand for performance cars, but the market is cyclical and Dodge has priced itself out of its traditional blue collar hotrod identity. There is no depth to the Dodge lineup, placing the brand far out on a weak limb.

Then Chrysler will follow Fisker.

The Journey should have never been made by Daimler, it was break even product hence the company got a margin boost when it was out of production.
Durango isn't a blue collar product, in fact they glad it gets $50K Average Transaction price and has been channel into a unique muscle/performance/sporty SUV.
As a speciality brand Dodge don't need depth especially in a showroom with Jeep & RAM.

 

[TripleT]

Let's not forget reason why Daimler devalued Chrysler and basically made it Plymouth was in its proper position it stepped all over Mercedes territory. They would have been better off killing Chrysler. which they nearly did then killing Plymouth.

They pushed Chrysler into the overcrowded Zero Margin region now completely dominated by Asian sourced vehicles. While Daimler tried this they failed. Remember I designed the box that was intended to go from Asia to line side. Recently on a trip I dug up a CC91, after someone else claimed they invented the design concept that in now dominate.

Lets not go into Journey... horrible replacement for the short minivan.

 

[patfromigh]

The Journey was replaced. It is sold in other markets as the Jeep Commander. It is not sold here as a Jeep, Chrysler or Dodge.

 

[AlexB]

Journey was discontinued, and because it was break even vehicle, when it went out of the mix profits margins in North America improved.
FCA sold the Journey as a FIAT not Jeep in other markets(still don't change it being a Daimler mistake).

 

[TripleT]

Journey was discontinued, and because it was break even vehicle, when it went out of the mix profits margins in North America improved.
FCA sold the Journey as a FIAT not Jeep in other markets(still don't change it being a Daimler mistake).

It was a worse version of a not very good Mitsubishi product. That whole group of penny-pinching Daimlers were some of the worst Mopar's ever made. Even the 300 and Magnum which weren't especially well executed, even though the powerplant helped a lot. The Interiors were a step backwards from the LXs.

 

[AlexB]

It was a worse version of a not very good Mitsubishi product. That whole group of penny-pinching Daimlers were some of the worst Mopar's ever made. Even the 300 and Magnum which weren't especially well executed, even though the powerplant helped a lot. The Interiors were a step backwards from the LXs.

And the worst minivan generation ever.

 

[TripleT]

For sure RT was a 2 gen step backwards.

 

[patfromigh]

We all know how bad the Daimler era products were. Does that mean abandoning the C and D segment crossover market in North America? Jeep offers 2WD products for other markets which would tarnish the Jeep image if sold here. The Jeep Commander is one of those products. While it is also offered with AWD, the front drive based vehicle would better serve as a Dodge or Chrysler.

I have have driven far too many tourist trap Jeep Cherokee rentals to know watering down the Jeep brand is a bad idea. Those front wheel drive, 2.4 liter, 9-speed units are just as bad as any Journey, Caliber, or RT van. Yet the Cherokee is scheduled to return.

 

[TripleT]

We all know how bad the Daimler era products were. Does that mean abandoning the C and D segment crossover market in North America? Jeep offers 2WD products for other markets which would tarnish the Jeep image if sold here. The Jeep Commander is one of those products. While it is also offered with AWD, the front drive based vehicle would better serve as a Dodge or Chrysler.

I have have driven far too many tourist trap Jeep Cherokee rentals to know watering down the Jeep brand is a bad idea. Those front wheel drive, 2.4 liter, 9-speed units are just as bad as any Journey, Caliber, or RT van. Yet the Cherokee is scheduled to return.

Now your just talking crazy.

There is no way, the driving dynamics, the interior, the build quality, every mechanical system was under-designed. The 2.4 was underpowered and the 9-speed quirky but nothing compared to that horrible Jatco system.

 

[patfromigh]

Only the Belvidere Trio used the JATCO. Craziness is saying those vehicles built in the Daimler era were so bad that Stellantis should never return to those market segments.

 

[TripleT]

Only the Belvidere Trio used the JATCO. Craziness is saying those vehicles built in the Daimler era were so bad that Stellantis should never return to those market segments.

They are it is the Compass and Renegade... In Europe it like 12 models across the eCMP and STLA Small. We will get the Small. KM is coming. If you're talking about Sedans bahahahahahah NO ROI. If your talking about a Sub-Prime three row.... Where are the margin to Justify the ROI? It can't get by the first Gate.

The cars were bad beyond just the Jatco and I am Partisan and owned some of them, Everyone of them were worse by a lot then the previous gen vehicles. Dynamics, build quality, interiors, other systems. 4 cylinder engines were worse, the only shine was the Pentastar

 

[AlexB]

They are it is the Compass and Renegade... In Europe it like 12 models across the eCMP and STLA Small. We will get the Small. KM is coming. If you're talking about Sedans bahahahahahah NO ROI. If your talking about a Sub-Prime three row.... Where are the margin to Justify the ROI? It can't get by the first Gate.

The cars were bad beyond just the Jatco and I am Partisan and owned some of them, Everyone of them were worse by a lot then the previous gen vehicles. Dynamics, build quality, interiors, other systems. 4 cylinder engines were worse, the only shine was the Pentastar

And the Midsize crossover (D segment) KM will have Blazer,Murano... with Edge exiting.. it won't be Jeep's best seller by a long mile.
People forget key difference is Stellantis has multiple Country champion brand in Europe... FIAT in Italy...Peugeot in France, Vauxhall in U.K.
John with Sergio,Mike(Manley),Carlos as the CEO's have all stated Jeep is the main/"brenchmark" brand...while Dodge was a poor mass market brand (hence the separate RAM brand name after the Bankruptcy).

 

[TripleT]

And the Midsize crossover (D segment) KM will have Blazer,Murano... with Edge exiting.. it won't be Jeep's best seller by a long mile.
People forget key difference is Stellantis has multiple Country champion brand in Europe... FIAT in Italy...Peugeot in France, Vauxhall in U.K.
John with Sergio,Mike(Manley),Carlos as the CEO's have all stated Jeep is the main/"brenchmark" brand...while Dodge was a poor mass market brand (hence the separate RAM brand name after the Bankruptcy).

Here is a secret.... Ram split prior to Bankruptcy by the New Yorkers to sell to a Japanese manufacturer.... people will challenge this. But I was in a position to know about it when it was something few people knew about. I have got "Where is the source" hahaha living it. Mass Market = Low Margin

 

[AlexB]

Here is a secret.... Ram split prior to Bankruptcy by the New Yorkers to sell to a Japanese manufacturer.... people will challenge this. But I was in a position to know about it when it was something few people knew about. I have got "Where is the source" hahaha living it. Mass Market = Low Margin

And Lee made it more easier with "Dodge Truck" being a separate agreement with dealers.

Don't know why folks don't realize the Maverick is an "margin & capacity utilization (Fiesta)" exercise and Toyota got rid of the Venza for more margin models like Grand Highlander and Crown Signia while investing in the Sequoia.

​

 

[TripleT]

Increasing emission regulation are "pushing" the base ice vehicle out of the market. It's not an accident. Capacity is getting eating up by having to have regulatory powertrains for half the population and what consumers actually want in the other. Room for marginally profitable models that now require increasingly expensive powertrains is shrinking