Stellantis CEO’s Firm Stand: No More Buying Credits, Goodbye HEMI V8s

In a bold move reflecting a significant shift in strategy, Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares has declared an end to the era of purchasing emissions credits, a decision with far-reaching implications for the company’s iconic HEMI V8 engines. For years, Stellantis, formerly Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA), relied on buying emissions credits from Tesla to meet regulatory standards and avoid hefty fines. However, Tavares has drawn a line in the sand, stating that Stellantis will no longer “buy a single credit.” This signals a new direction for the company, one where it aims to self-regulate and accelerate its electric vehicle (EV) transition. … (read full article...)

 

[patfromigh]

That I know of, no government agency, rules, or regulation require an automaker to produce a two-door coupe with a battery electric power-train and weighing three tons. No automaker is required to install a French designed hybrid transmission, which if installed in vehicles sold here in America will likely be a replay of the DDCT and Ultra-Drive debacles.

Note to Stellantis management: CAFE is based a vehicle sales averages. You must first sell an EV before it helps your cause. While the Charger is NOT an ugly eyesore like the Ford Mustang Mock-e, are you sure consumers want an expensive, overweight and overly complicated car. Trying to copy Tesla will fail.

 

[jdl1974]

Why not a smaller aluminum block v8? I'm sure there's some way to make it carbon neutral.

 

[redriderbob]

I’d be down for a smaller displacement V8 with PHEV tech.

 

[gapgap3063]

Stellantis management is doing the same thing FCA did! not understanding the American market, FCA tried to push Alfa/Maserati and fiat on the American market to what success? really none! as the 300 alone! almost outsold all those brands vehicles alone in the USA! every year! what a waste of $capital! that came from where? mostly the American Brands! On another note?-It's a funny thing but Daimler seem to get the American USA market better than both FCA, and later Stellantis, but Sadly they just milked, and dragged, Chrysler etc. along for a while then dumped it! but Damn! the Chrysler brand had 7 vehicles under them! and they kept Chrysler in its beginning luxury status! (except for that mistake called the PT cruiser which was a Plymouth!) Daimler also gave us the return of the Charger, and the Magnum, and the Hemi motor return! So then here comes Fiat to the rescue later, with secured USA GOV. loans$ after the Cerberus Capital Management ownership disaster! and they form FCA. Later FCA goes JEEP Vehicle crazy! and yes still Pushes money making Dodge trucks Which they Then take from Dodge and call Ram, ( but the Dodge Brothers Started with Trucks!!!! HMMMM?) FCA then systematically discards Chrysler to the let em Die dump! which the new CEO and leader of the Chrysler Brand-Christine Feuell under Stellantis has said FCA did indeed DO!!!! Ok now back to Stellantis management and their Decisions? no Hemi for the new Ram 1500???? STUPID! they will lose tons of sales to FORD, GM, Toyota, and Nissan's light duty 1500's! as they still all have a V8! So? all you offer in your bread and butter new Ram 1500! is a 6????? and it's turbo charged. I run a Landscape Co. and we use Ram Tradesman V8 1500's, we and tons of other people will never get the 6!! When these 2018's 1500's we have get too old. We don't use, or need, heavy duty 2500's or 3500's rams as we don't plow, or carry very heavy things, or pull very heavy trailers, It's sad because we love our Rams! Who made this decision? The leaders in the Chrysler Building in Auburn Hills Michigan? or the French, and Italian, TOP Bosses!! in the Stellantis Amsterdam HQ. HMMMMMMM???? And Who decided to make Chrysler brand vehicles to be all BEV? by 2028 another Mistake! at least give Chrysler the damn hurricane 6 ice engine! as an option in their upcoming stuff ( if it ever gets here?) but again it's another Micro managed decision over the 2nd tier leaders in Auburn Hills. ( note to Stellantis This is not Europe! ) I know Bev is coming more, and more, but a new engineered V8! based on the hurricane 6 tech could of been done! they had plenty of time! and the Know How! You cant force feed the USA!!!!!!! -( Can someone say the Metric system! ) I'm a Mopar guy but sadly it's really mostly gone! Another stupid example-The Dodge Hornet! It ain't really a Dodge! it's new and it's sales are tanking already! it's a damn Alfa! And hell! another thing!-they even disbanded and split up the SRT engineering group engineers for what?? another micro managing decision! Stellantis Amsterdam management in Europe does not get Americans or even respect the brand history! They hyped the Charger bev for over a year! dropped the Challenger! which just gave Ford a smile!!!!!!!! and then gave us a heavy 3ton 2 door Charger, slow ass car that will cost you $$$$big and use extra gimmicks to sell! It's like the tuners putting loud mufflers on 4 cylinders! all show not much go for the money! I hate Chrysler's old leader Robert Eaton more everyday now he caused this Crap! from the start! by selling out Chrysler and the USA! Just my take! I'm a pissed OLD MAN!

 

[TripleT]

Why not a smaller aluminum block v8? I'm sure there's some way to make it carbon neutral.

It exists and is underpowered compared to the Hurricane and expensive

 

[ipa0628]

Stellantis management is doing the same thing FCA did! not understanding the American market, FCA tried to push Alfa/Maserati and fiat on the American market to what success? really none! as the 300 alone! almost outsold all those brands vehicles alone in the USA! every year! what a waste of $capital! that came from where? mostly the American Brands! On another note?-It's a funny thing but Daimler seem to get the American USA market better than both FCA, and later Stellantis, but Sadly they just milked, and dragged, Chrysler etc. along for a while then dumped it! but Damn! the Chrysler brand had 7 vehicles under them! and they kept Chrysler in its beginning luxury status! (except for that mistake called the PT cruiser which was a Plymouth!) Daimler also gave us the return of the Charger, and the Magnum, and the Hemi motor return! So then here comes Fiat to the rescue later, with secured USA GOV. loans$ after the Cerberus Capital Management ownership disaster! and they form FCA. Later FCA goes JEEP Vehicle crazy! and yes still Pushes money making Dodge trucks Which they Then take from Dodge and call Ram, ( but the Dodge Brothers Started with Trucks!!!! HMMMM?) FCA then systematically discards Chrysler to the let em Die dump! which the new CEO and leader of the Chrysler Brand-Christine Feuell under Stellantis has said FCA did indeed DO!!!! Ok now back to Stellantis management and their Decisions? no Hemi for the new Ram 1500???? STUPID! they will lose tons of sales to FORD, GM, Toyota, and Nissan's light duty 1500's! as they still all have a V8! So? all you offer in your bread and butter new Ram 1500! is a 6????? and it's turbo charged. I run a Landscape Co. and we use Ram Tradesman V8 1500's, we and tons of other people will never get the 6!! When these 2018's 1500's we have get too old. We don't use, or need, heavy duty 2500's or 3500's rams as we don't plow, or carry very heavy things, or pull very heavy trailers, It's sad because we love our Rams! Who made this decision? The leaders in the Chrysler Building in Auburn Hills Michigan? or the French, and Italian, TOP Bosses!! in the Stellantis Amsterdam HQ. HMMMMMMM???? And Who decided to make Chrysler brand vehicles to be all BEV? by 2028 another Mistake! at least give Chrysler the damn hurricane 6 ice engine! as an option in their upcoming stuff ( if it ever gets here?) but again it's another Micro managed decision over the 2nd tier leaders in Auburn Hills. ( note to Stellantis This is not Europe! ) I know Bev is coming more, and more, but a new engineered V8! based on the hurricane 6 tech could of been done! they had plenty of time! and the Know How! You cant force feed the USA!!!!!!! -( Can someone say the Metric system! ) I'm a Mopar guy but sadly it's really mostly gone! Another stupid example-The Dodge Hornet! It ain't really a Dodge! it's new and it's sales are tanking already! it's a damn Alfa! And hell! another thing!-they even disbanded and split up the SRT engineering group engineers for what?? another micro managing decision! Stellantis Amsterdam management in Europe does not get Americans or even respect the brand history! They hyped the Charger bev for over a year! dropped the Challenger! which just gave Ford a smile!!!!!!!! and then gave us a heavy 3ton 2 door Charger, slow ass car that will cost you $$$$big and use extra gimmicks to sell! It's like the tuners putting loud mufflers on 4 cylinders! all show not much go for the money! I hate Chrysler's old leader Robert Eaton more everyday now he caused this Crap! from the start! by selling out Chrysler and the USA! Just my take! I'm a pissed OLD MAN!

I agree with of this.
All they seem to know is Jeep, Jeep, Jeep. Instead of the millions wasted on the Wagoneer, they could have done a Journey replacement and maybe something smaller, and alsogive them a new high mpg engine.
While they were at it, come up with a new efficient V8.
If they would have had a full range of vehicles, then they could have kept a V8, just like GM and Ford.
I have never owned a Ford but I am seriously considering an F150 V8 as a replacement for my Ram.

 

[patfromigh]

A legitimate data analysis concern annually publishes a list of the ten least liked new vehicles. These aren't the ones which don't sell. These are ones people seriously regret buying. The results are based on the percentage of owners who would purchase another similar vehicle by that manufacturer. I was totally shocked this year, because there weren't any Stellantis products on that list. Usually the Wrangler or one of its ancestors over the years anchored the list, because they were too hardcore industrial / agricultural / off-road for a consumer after the fantasy wore off.

Nissan products dominated the list this year. It seems that offering a full line of vehicles is no longer a good strategy. Low priced products like the Versa, Kix and Sentra fail to generate repeat buyers.

... they will lose tons of sales to FORD, GM, Toyota, and Nissan's light duty 1500's! as they still all have a V8!

Nissan dropped out of the full-size pickup truck market segment and phased out its V8s. Toyota no longer offers a V8 truck in our market. The great majority of Ford F-150 sales are EB V6 powered. Up until recently GM was "all in" on battery electrics.

I run a Landscape Co. and we use Ram Tradesman V8 1500's, we and tons of other people will never get the 6!! When these 2018's 1500's we have get too old. We don't use, or need, heavy duty 2500's or 3500's rams as we don't plow, or carry very heavy things, or pull very heavy trailers

Ram will still offer the Pentastar V6 as the standard ICE offering in the 2025 Ram 1500. It should be more than adequate since you ... "don't plow, or carry very heavy things, or pull very heavy trailers."

It's like the tuners putting loud mufflers on 4 cylinders! all show not much go...

Yes, the new Dodge EV is a 3-ton lump, and aftermarket accessories for imported cars may be questionable. The latest Prius Prime has a 2 liter (metric measurement, that is 122 cubic inches for you) four cylinder without a turbo. It has a 97 mph trap speed in the quarter mile. It also gets 52 mpg. Hemis are faster, but they don't make them anymore, because the company can no longer afford to buy credits. Toyota also offers a full size Crown sedan that runs 97 mph in the 1/4 mile, but it only has mpg in the thirties. The fastest Toyota is a three cylinder. It turns 13.3 sec @ 105 mph in the quarter mile. Companies will just have to make do if they don't want to buy credits.

Instead of the millions wasted on the Wagoneer, they could have done a Journey replacement and maybe something smaller, and also give them a new high mpg engine.

The engineering, research and development which went into the Wagoneer also spills over into other products, such as pickup trucks and the Grand Cherokee. Maybe they are working on a Journey replacement. It's a hot segment. but the class leaders have set a very high bar. Stellantis is spending $99 million USD retooling production lines to build a 1.6 liter (one liter = 61 cubic inches) four cylinder for two hybrid vehicles in the pipeline. That is in addition to the money spent tooling up a line in Kokomo to build the GME four cylinder there. Stellantis also has the GSE four cylinders in their portfolio. These projects have been discussed on this forum for months.

Finally, maybe a new efficient V8 wasn't found to be as efficient as the inline six that was green lighted. Remember FCA started out using Hemi-hybrid pickup trucks as test subjects. They had the 5.7 Hemi with the GM hybrid transmission. They went with the 3 liter Hurricane and 8-speed ZF. A lot of money went into the tooling and is still flowing. The next generation mild hybrids and plugin hybrids are yet to come.

 

[ipa0628]

A legitimate data analysis concern annually publishes a list of the ten least liked new vehicles. These aren't the ones which don't sell. These are ones people seriously regret buying. The results are based on the percentage of owners who would purchase another similar vehicle by that manufacturer. I was totally shocked this year, because there weren't any Stellantis products on that list. Usually the Wrangler or one of its ancestors over the years anchored the list, because they were too hardcore industrial / agricultural / off-road for a consumer after the fantasy wore off.

Nissan products dominated the list this year. It seems that offering a full line of vehicles is no longer a good strategy. Low priced products like the Versa, Kix and Sentra fail to generate repeat buyers.


Nissan dropped out of the full-size pickup truck market segment and phased out its V8s. Toyota no longer offers a V8 truck in our market. The great majority of Ford F-150 sales are EB V6 powered. Up until recently GM was "all in" on battery electrics.

Ram will still offer the Pentastar V6 as the standard ICE offering in the 2025 Ram 1500. It should be more than adequate since you ... "don't plow, or carry very heavy things, or pull very heavy trailers."

Yes, the new Dodge EV is a 3-ton lump, and aftermarket accessories for imported cars may be questionable. The latest Prius Prime has a 2 liter (metric measurement, that is 122 cubic inches for you) four cylinder without a turbo. It has a 97 mph trap speed in the quarter mile. It also gets 52 mpg. Hemis are faster, but they don't make them anymore, because the company can no longer afford to buy credits. Toyota also offers a full size Crown sedan that runs 97 mph in the 1/4 mile, but it only has mpg in the thirties. The fastest Toyota is a three cylinder. It turns 13.3 sec @ 105 mph in the quarter mile. Companies will just have to make do if they don't want to buy credits.


The engineering, research and development which went into the Wagoneer also spills over into other products, such as pickup trucks and the Grand Cherokee. Maybe they are working on a Journey replacement. It's a hot segment. but the class leaders have set a very high bar. Stellantis is spending $99 million USD retooling production lines to build a 1.6 liter (one liter = 61 cubic inches) four cylinder for two hybrid vehicles in the pipeline. That is in addition to the money spent tooling up a line in Kokomo to build the GME four cylinder there. Stellantis also has the GSE four cylinders in their portfolio. These projects have been discussed on this forum for months.

Finally, maybe a new efficient V8 wasn't found to be as efficient as the inline six that was green lighted. Remember FCA started out using Hemi-hybrid pickup trucks as test subjects. They had the 5.7 Hemi with the GM hybrid transmission. They went with the 3 liter Hurricane and 8-speed ZF. A lot of money went into the tooling and is still flowing. The next generation mild hybrids and plugin hybrids are yet to come.

 

[ipa0628]

Ram will still offer the Pentastar V6 as the standard ICE offering in the 2025 Ram 1500. It should be more than adequate since you ... "don't plow, or carry very heavy things, or pull very heavy trailers."
I had a '14 Ram with this engine and hated it. It was fine for the most part when driven locally. Get it on an interstate, especially in the mountains of VA and WVA, and it absolutely sucked. Constant shifting and running at 4 to 5000 rpms. It got worse gas mileage than my '16 Ram with the Hemi.
I can think of one 5 mile long climb on I77 where my Hemi climbs at 70, while only turning about 1750rpms and never shifting. Same hill with 3.6, that thing was screaming 4000 rpms with constant shifting.
Until I drive a Hurricane, I will have my doubts as this is another attempt at window dressing to make it look like they are increasing mpg's. I will not buy the Ram until I can rent one for a couple days to see how it performs in all situations.
The point on GM and Ford is that they still offer a V8 if you want one. If you want a Ram with a V8 you are out of luck. I don't care about Toyota being only a 6. They are a small player with a very ugly truck.

 

[petejurg]

I have a 2017 RAM with the 5.7L Hemi motor. I love it. Unfortunately, I will have to consider a Chevy since I will not put that high pressure time bomb I6 in my truck and I would never own an EV, at least not the way they are now. What a shame that they are forcing this farce into our driveways.

 

[MotorMaven]

The point on GM and Ford is that they still offer a V8 if you want one.

For now, and not for much longer.

ICE engines are on their way out in the next decade. Large displacement engines are on their way out right now.

Reactions to the move towards efficiency and low emissions have always been strong. Today’s people angry about the end of the HEMI and the emergence of electric are the modern version of folks in the early 80s who swore they’d never buy a 4-cylinder and who demanded a carburetor-fed big iron block V8 body-on-frame RWD car.

They all ended up with 4 cylinder FWD vehicle in the end.

 

[MotorMaven]

I have a 2017 RAM with the 5.7L Hemi motor. I love it. Unfortunately, I will have to consider a Chevy since I will not put that high pressure time bomb I6 in my truck and I would never own an EV, at least not the way they are now. What a shame that they are forcing this farce into our driveways.

A 2017 RAM is eight years old in 2024. If you wait another year to buy that Chevy, that will be your last ICE truck — GM is dropping ICE by 2035.

 

[AlexB]

A 2017 RAM is eight years old in 2024. If you wait another year to buy that Chevy, that will be your last ICE truck — GM is dropping ICE by 2035.

What many in this thread isn't getting is that modern day CAFE is base on "Footprint" not a straightforward "fleet-wide" number. It is a complex (that getting more complex)formula with a bunch of " ins", and "out" together with "Zero Emission Vehicles" embedded into the calculation.
I haven't even mention CARB standards.

 

[vbondjr1]

I still says it's time for Direct Connection to really pull out some nasty SRT4-type upgrade packages for the hurricane powertrains. No V8's, no problem. Some of that money that the company isn't spending on buying credits can be put to Direct Connection performance upgrades including Stage kits with Carb-legal bolt-on turbo upgrades, intercoolers, blow off valves, fuel systems, turbo back exhaust systems, suspension upgrades, wheel options, aero-upgrades, jailbreak packages, etc. The vehicle off the show room floor has to be within the parameters of all of this legal crap. No where did it say that they couldn't provide after-sale upgrades that are 50-state legal with Carb numbers and everything else. I'm cool with the thought of gaining an extra 40-50+hp on an AWD 550hp coupe with a factory warranty. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. Right now we're basically seeing the Hurricane Cat-1 & Cat-2 in these production cars and remember there's a 1,000+hp Cat-X somewhere in the works. We still have yet to see what this new powertrain can really do stock or even with mild fuel tuning alone. Look at the range of power difference of the Demon 170 with pump gas and race fuel, what could that kind of tuning do in a 550hp Hurricane-6? Honestly, if Stellantis plays their cards right with this, we may see something with this new direction that they're taking that we wouldn't have been able to experience with the Hemi powertrains.

 

[TripleT]

I have a 2017 RAM with the 5.7L Hemi motor. I love it. Unfortunately, I will have to consider a Chevy since I will not put that high pressure time bomb I6 in my truck and I would never own an EV, at least not the way they are now. What a shame that they are forcing this farce into our driveways.

You joined a group to say your leaving a group... OOOOOOOKKKKKKK enjoy your Chevy.

 

[Morrow30001]

In a bold move reflecting a significant shift in strategy, Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares has declared an end to the era of purchasing emissions credits, a decision with far-reaching implications for the company’s iconic HEMI V8 engines. For years, Stellantis, formerly Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA), relied on buying emissions credits from Tesla to meet regulatory standards and avoid hefty fines. However, Tavares has drawn a line in the sand, stating that Stellantis will no longer “buy a single credit.” This signals a new direction for the company, one where it aims to self-regulate and accelerate its electric vehicle (EV) transition. … (read full article...)

View attachment 9305

Witness the end of dodge ram and chrysler folks these people and their crazy electrification hard on will eliminate the loyal buyers and end the companies

 

[TripleT]

Witness the end of dodge ram and chrysler folks these people and their crazy electrification hard on will eliminate the loyal buyers and end the companies

Although you don't have much trouble subsidizing someone else driving one? Is it the same person trolling this site? The first post, just joined, flame throwers are a heavy trend. No one is really this blind to the regulatory realities that would seek out this forum.

 

[Hemi_Dart]

Why not a smaller aluminum block v8? I'm sure there's some way to make it carbon neutral.

There definitely is a way but not when you wait 15 years and try to catch up. All upper management at FCA was on a short sighted plan and no vision. It's caught up with them and they blame the EPA.

 

[Hemi_Dart]

Stellantis management is doing the same thing FCA did! not understanding the American market, FCA tried to push Alfa/Maserati and fiat on the American market to what success? really none! as the 300 alone! almost outsold all those brands vehicles alone in the USA! every year! what a waste of $capital! that came from where? mostly the American Brands! On another note?-It's a funny thing but Daimler seem to get the American USA market better than both FCA, and later Stellantis, but Sadly they just milked, and dragged, Chrysler etc. along for a while then dumped it! but Damn! the Chrysler brand had 7 vehicles under them! and they kept Chrysler in its beginning luxury status! (except for that mistake called the PT cruiser which was a Plymouth!) Daimler also gave us the return of the Charger, and the Magnum, and the Hemi motor return! So then here comes Fiat to the rescue later, with secured USA GOV. loans$ after the Cerberus Capital Management ownership disaster! and they form FCA. Later FCA goes JEEP Vehicle crazy! and yes still Pushes money making Dodge trucks Which they Then take from Dodge and call Ram, ( but the Dodge Brothers Started with Trucks!!!! HMMMM?) FCA then systematically discards Chrysler to the let em Die dump! which the new CEO and leader of the Chrysler Brand-Christine Feuell under Stellantis has said FCA did indeed DO!!!! Ok now back to Stellantis management and their Decisions? no Hemi for the new Ram 1500???? STUPID! they will lose tons of sales to FORD, GM, Toyota, and Nissan's light duty 1500's! as they still all have a V8! So? all you offer in your bread and butter new Ram 1500! is a 6????? and it's turbo charged. I run a Landscape Co. and we use Ram Tradesman V8 1500's, we and tons of other people will never get the 6!! When these 2018's 1500's we have get too old. We don't use, or need, heavy duty 2500's or 3500's rams as we don't plow, or carry very heavy things, or pull very heavy trailers, It's sad because we love our Rams! Who made this decision? The leaders in the Chrysler Building in Auburn Hills Michigan? or the French, and Italian, TOP Bosses!! in the Stellantis Amsterdam HQ. HMMMMMMM???? And Who decided to make Chrysler brand vehicles to be all BEV? by 2028 another Mistake! at least give Chrysler the damn hurricane 6 ice engine! as an option in their upcoming stuff ( if it ever gets here?) but again it's another Micro managed decision over the 2nd tier leaders in Auburn Hills. ( note to Stellantis This is not Europe! ) I know Bev is coming more, and more, but a new engineered V8! based on the hurricane 6 tech could of been done! they had plenty of time! and the Know How! You cant force feed the USA!!!!!!! -( Can someone say the Metric system! ) I'm a Mopar guy but sadly it's really mostly gone! Another stupid example-The Dodge Hornet! It ain't really a Dodge! it's new and it's sales are tanking already! it's a damn Alfa! And hell! another thing!-they even disbanded and split up the SRT engineering group engineers for what?? another micro managing decision! Stellantis Amsterdam management in Europe does not get Americans or even respect the brand history! They hyped the Charger bev for over a year! dropped the Challenger! which just gavea smile!!!!!!!! and then gave us a heavy 3ton 2 door Charger, slow ass car that will cost you $$$$big and use extra gimmicks to sell! It's like the tuners putting loud mufflers on 4 cylinders! all show not much go for the money! I hate Chrysler's old leader Rolebert Eaton more everyday now he caused this Crap! from the start! by selling out Chrysler and the USA! Just my take! I'm a pissed OLD MAN!

FCA should have branded all of the ALFAs under the Chrysler name and not had separate delearships. Money should have been put into two new Hemis one being a baby Hemi to use the smaller 8 speed. No vision and no drive in upper management.