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The same décision for Stellantis Europe would be great… but with the investments in French factories to produce the new 1.2 Puretech Punch MHEV, it won’t be the same…
 
iDrive said:
The same décision for Stellantis Europe would be great… but with the investments in French factories to produce the new 1.2 Puretech Punch MHEV, it won’t be the same…
Click to expand...

It's also political choice. Push with CMP in place of eMini was one such choice.

First of all. Mister Elkann knows that French politicians will stay behind Stellantis when it comes to new EU regulations. One such push was for Euro 6 standard. Stellantis wants to keep it last 2025 and well into 2030s.
Imagine Italian politicians in such scenario.

So it seems, and that's logical and expected, that France as country wants too keep as much jobs as possible and because of that Stellantis will keep some mediocre or subpar projects like EB engine, CMP platform, Punch transmission...

With this they'll keep French engineers, suppliers... It's not only about ex PSA production workforce.
 
The jobs argument doesn’t stand up: French workers could just as easily assemble Italian designs as French ones - a change of architecture would not affect capacity. There is also the story that PSA’s ICE engineering programmes were stopped at formation of Stellantis, with staff transferring to the former FCA.

It’s much more likely that Stellantis wants to preserve its large investment in tooling and supplier contracts around CMP. Increasing the number of vehicles made on CMP makes it a more profitable investment. Switching the planned Polish eMini products to CMP achieves this goal without much loss - at the time of changeover, those projects were still before the point or no return, where the company would have to commit to supply contracts and the most expensive tooling.

However, this Brazilian information means it’s possible that the Tychy cars could use GSE engines, not the PureTec. The Bielsko-Biala plant in Poland is still making GSE engines, and that factory is the primary engine supplier for the Tychy plant.

In the longer term, I still believe that eMini, and not CMP, will be the survivor platform for the smallest cars in Stellantis.
 
If we see the length of STLA Small, we see more eMini level than CMP.

STLA Small seems to have length between 355/360cm to 430/435cm, ans width between 170 to 180cm. Wich are like the same level of 500e and the aborted Polish SUVs.

CMP stars from 390 to 465cm…
 
Yes, I noticed that at the BEV Day presentation back in the Summer.

Automotive News Europe reported in October that another FIAT 500 model will be built at Mirafiori to free up capacity at Tychy. (Stellantis to outline reorganization plan for Turin) That could be e-Mini, or CMP, but given that 500e is eMini, it seems more likely that it will be eMini.
 
KrisW said:
Yes, I noticed that at the BEV Day presentation back in the Summer.

Automotive News Europe reported in October that another FIAT 500 model will be built at Mirafiori to free up capacity at Tychy. (Stellantis to outline reorganization plan for Turin) That could be e-Mini, or CMP, but given that 500e is eMini, it seems more likely that it will be eMini.
Click to expand...
AN reported that « old » 5oo ICE/MHEV will be dismissed from Poland, to get full 500e in Mirafiori that will take the place of the current/old 5oo ICE/MHEV. There isn’t an other model, I think.
 
Ending 500 ICE in Poland has no effect on production of 500E in Mirafiori. The existing plan was already to wind down 500 ICE production over the next year or two and leave Mirafiori as the only site for 500, which would be electric only. But this proposal was about a transfer of production from Tychy to Mirafiori, so we have to consider one or more of the following scenarios:

1. some or all production of the current ICE 500 is going to move from Tychy to Mirafiori
2. the current 500 ICE ends at Tychy and an all-new ICE/MHEV 500 is going to be built at Mirafiori
3. the current 500 ICE scales back at Tychy, and a different 500-family model starts at Mirafiori.

Of those, we can discount option 1 as highly unlikely, as it would require creating a brand new line at Mirafiori to make a 10-year-old product, which makes no financial sense.
 
... of course, I could be wrong about the new car in Mirafiori being a 500 at all: Tychy builds both the ICE 500 and the ICE Lancia Ypsilon.
 
I think the new new Ypsilon will be based on Polish « SUVs » eCMP « by Turin » platform with MHEV and BEV engines.
 
Tychy is set to make three B-UVs: One Jeep, one FIAT, one Alfa (a second FIAT seems to be gone, but it could come back). The plant has produced up to 600,000 units a year flat-out, but dealing with a mix of platforms, or bigger cars, would probably reduce that figure. Currently around 250,000 units (Ypsilon and 500) are made in Tychy every year. If you give each of the new UVs a modest 75,000 sales each, they could comfortably co-exist with the existing products. But if one of the new cars becomes a hit, then one of the older products would have to end, or move, in order to free up space.

There’s also regulatory forces to consider: if Stellantis wants to keep making 500 ICE and Ypsilon after May 2024, it will need to add a lot of safety systems to the cars (driver attention monitor, speed-limit warning, autonomous emergency braking, event data recorder, facility for fitting an alcohol-detector interlock). That’s a lot of cost to retrofit, but all of these are in place in the e-Mini architecture used in 500 electric.

Whatever happens about site of manufacture or platform, I think 500 ICE, Panda and Ypsilon will now be updated. Covid and the chip-shortage has delayed the whole market by at least a year, with the result that now 2024 is too soon to completely stop making ICE models in the A-segment - and the A-segment is essential for FIAT and Lancia. (There’s no suitable PSA design for A-segment)
 
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