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Dodge is lying - there is a path forward for the V8

cygnus

cygnus

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No reason the upcoming L cars couldn’t share the 5.7 eTorque with Ram. The WL twins could have shared the 5.7 eTorque as well.

Crash testing and emissions for all programs using the 5.7 would have been around $600-700 million - PEANUTS FOR A COMPANY THAT WILL MAKE $10 BILLION this year.

Don’t let them kill Dodge and the V8 shared amongst multiple vehicles. Start demanding answers and posting on their social media pages.

Don’t let them make stupid decisions like this to appease leadership’s delusions that the sub 3 liter upcoming L car twins can be exotic American “export cars” like the ecofart mustangs the poor Euros like to drive.
 
cygnus said:
No reason the upcoming L cars couldn’t share the 5.7 eTorque with Ram. The WL twins could have shared the 5.7 eTorque as well.

Crash testing and emissions for all programs using the 5.7 would have been around $600-700 million - PEANUTS FOR A COMPANY THAT WILL MAKE $10 BILLION this year.

Don’t let them kill Dodge and the V8 shared amongst multiple vehicles. Start demanding answers and posting on their social media pages.

Don’t let them make stupid decisions like this to appease leadership’s delusions that the sub 3 liter upcoming L car twins can be exotic American “export cars” like the ecofart mustangs the poor Euros like to drive.
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The poor Euros actually prefer the V8 Mustang. They just go for the ecofarts (:ROFLMAO:) because the V8 are too pricey.
You mention that the cost would be $600-700 million. That would be on top of other development costs. What would be the percentage of those models with the V8 engines? What would be the margin on those vehicles?
You just pointed out part of the cost equation, not the whole. I bet they would love to launch the V8, but they must've made a profitability analysis to know if it's worth it or not.
 
No matter what anyone says on different forums or on the social media platform, one thing that will make Stellantis considers their position to keep or kill the V8, is how much they will retain of the market share after they move away from the V8's whether it is in Cars, SUVs or Light Duty trucks.

Whatever the analysis on paper is or was, the actual market will show what consumers and customers will buy.
 
Deckard Cain said:
The poor Euros actually prefer the V8 Mustang. They just go for the ecofarts :)ROFLMAO:) because the V8 are too pricey.
You mention that the cost would be $600-700 million. That would be on top of other development costs. What would be the percentage of those models with the V8 engines? What would be the margin on those vehicles?
You just pointed out part of the cost equation, not the whole. I bet they would love to launch the V8, but they must've made a profitability analysis to know if it's worth it or not.
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That it's not worth exporting? I agree, let the europoors go buy overpriced EVs.
 
Dodge will hopefully remember how Mustangs and Camaros sold far more than Challengers for decades until the word "Hemi" became mainstream. Similar with the Ram. Hemis remain a great platform. The manufacturing costs are very favorable compared to the 4 valve DOHC V8. It IMHO, finally gaining a strong percentage of these markets only to drop their main selling points doesn't seem the way to go.
I'd love to see them in any platform. It would likely raise sells. I know the CARB standards are problematic but, that is political. If the automakers would realize their collective power, and unite I believe a reasonable administration could reach a workable middle ground. Let the fringe scream at the sky. They're going to scream and they're not potential purchasers to begin with. They prefer to ride around in 50-60 year old VW buses that have dirty emissions, poor MPG, and no power anyway.
 
cygnus said:
That it's not worth exporting? I agree, let the europoors go buy overpriced EVs.
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Don't worry, we europoor buy cars adapted to our roads and distances. We do love V8s.
I understand your frustration, but you are not looking at the full picture for that decision and that's just what I was pointing out.
 
V8s are not possible in any meaningful way (outside of 150K+ exotic cars) in Europe with energy prices. That is never going to change - even if there are pockets of energy they could get at, it's all going to industrial and residential.

I hope EVs plateau and crash and the car companies lose billions. There is this bureaucratic and Fortune 500 executive class that somehow thinks they know markets and preferences and that putting the automotive OEMs into energy fitness programs will embolden US national security and greater global industrial manufacturing competitiveness because our manufacturers operate with cheaper energy costs vs. Europe (there is no way in hell we are cheaper than China/Asia, and that's perfectly fine).

They are wrong. Trump was right - there is more than enough natural gas to go around and the Permian and Brakken have more than enough. So now they start a war, blow up pipelines, and destroy European living standards in the pursuit of democracy. These are the same guys that dropped 335,000 bombs on Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, etc the last twenty years. You got what you voted for.

They are no more effective at guiding consumer preferences and industry than the Federal Reserve is at controlling interest rates.
 
cygnus said:
V8s are not possible in any meaningful way (outside of 150K+ exotic cars) in Europe with energy prices. That is never going to change - even if there are pockets of energy they could get at, it's all going to industrial and residential.

I hope EVs plateau and crash and the car companies lose billions. There is this bureaucratic and Fortune 500 executive class that somehow thinks they know markets and preferences and that putting the automotive OEMs into energy fitness programs will embolden US national security and greater global industrial manufacturing competitiveness because our manufacturers operate with cheaper energy costs vs. Europe (there is no way in hell we are cheaper than China/Asia, and that's perfectly fine).

They are wrong. Trump was right - there is more than enough natural gas to go around and the Permian and Brakken have more than enough. So now they start a war, blow up pipelines, and destroy European living standards in the pursuit of democracy. These are the same guys that dropped 335,000 bombs on Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, etc the last twenty years. You got what you voted for.

They are no more effective at guiding consumer preferences and industry than the Federal Reserve is at controlling interest rates.
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The desire in Europe to move to sustainable energy and electrification is understandable since they depend on oil and gas imports and the change in the global political landscape greatly affects the prices which in turn hurt Europe and the European citizens.

But in the US, it’s a different story, and it all depends on the voted party and the lobbyists.
US is one of the largest in world in term of oil and gas production and reserves.
 
bill burke said:
392 is correct, the market will dictate. I’m saving up for my 2026 Hemi Challenger.
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LOL, well, at least you'll have money saved up for a new 2026 V8 Mustang, or a used 2023 Challenger. Of course if Brandon is reelected we won't be able to afford gasoline anyway by then, we'll all be riding bicycles and carrying sling shots for self defense...
 
cygnus said:
V8s are not possible in any meaningful way (outside of 150K+ exotic cars) in Europe with energy prices. That is never going to change - even if there are pockets of energy they could get at, it's all going to industrial and residential.

I hope EVs plateau and crash and the car companies lose billions. There is this bureaucratic and Fortune 500 executive class that somehow thinks they know markets and preferences and that putting the automotive OEMs into energy fitness programs will embolden US national security and greater global industrial manufacturing competitiveness because our manufacturers operate with cheaper energy costs vs. Europe (there is no way in hell we are cheaper than China/Asia, and that's perfectly fine).
Click to expand...
That's a big unrelated post for what I was hoping to be a discussion about the economical viability of V8s...
 
V8's (IMO) had a better future when they were smaller and cars/suvs/trucks were lighter. My 4.7L 4th gen 4runner gets the same fuel mileage as the 4.0L only 5th gens because they are 500lbs heavier. And its old! Imagine that engine with modern updates, an 8-speed transmission, 4x4 disconnect unless needed etc. The Germans and Japanese kinda did that with their boosted 4.0L V8's but almost all of them had turbocharging. I am talking the volume units - Ram trucks, Grand cherokees etc, do they really need to be 5.7L? Muscle cars - let them eat, give us the 426 7L, but I doubt the avg person cares as long as it has 8 cylinders in their truck/suv, even base charger/challenger. The rumble is enough.

Just saw a video of a 5.0L F150 (alum body) getting 17 mpg in regular driving, most are happy with that, its better MPG than an old 3.5L Maxima I use to have!
 
In a 2112 5.7 Charger, my brother gets 29-30 on his interstate trips. 16-17 around home. That's at 4300 lbs. I don't know a formula or any sort of way to make a guess but fitting the exact drivetrain and gearing into a 3500 lb. slightly smaller car with attention paid to good aero qualities would improve both figures, I think. It would use less energy to accelerate the reduced weight and pushing a little less air at speed would reduce the energy needed to maintain it. I realize none of the variables are filled in. But does anyone have an educated guess.
As mentioned above, Washington DC is full of elites who have an entirely different vision. We should be hard at providing our own energy, as well as exporting to the countries that have been continuously allies. The UK is a prime example. For the performance automotive world Trump's policies (not just talk) have been the closest thing to nirvana I've ever seen. A return to checking the EPA, IRS among others in their overreach combined with his positions on domestic energy and domestic manufacturing would change the landscape quickly.
The very real problem in doing long-term business with the US is the almost reversal in priorities this country can have in an election year. Currently we're declining in every measurable way. And we're taking our allies along. We're weaker, poorer, more divided in these days of Biden. Nearly half of this country seems OK with it. I don't know why. I can't find any logic or reason, even in the abstract.
 
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