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Chrysler Really Needs A New 300 Based On The New Charger

redriderbob

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Chrysler Really Needs A New 300 Based On The New Charger​

After Driving The New Charger Daytona, It Makes Me Really Want A Chrysler Version...​


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Stellantis has made it clear that Chrysler is on the path toward becoming an electrified or fully-electric brand by 2028. However, with the recent departure of former CEO Carlos Tavares and a pivot away from his “Dare Forward 2030” strategic plan, questions linger about the brand’s future direction. While these leadership changes could cause delays or adjustments, the brand’s reinvention may already be taking shape beneath the surface.

 
I agree. The rendering of the 300 is phenomenal. So beautiful, shouts class and luxury! Chrysler needs 3 to 4 vehicles in its stall. The minivan, 300 sedan (in all 3 forms, ICE, Hybrid & EV) and a luxury SUV. As for a 4th vehicle a convertible based on the 2 door Charger or compact SUV).
I really want Chrysler to survive. I remember the old days. The main vehicle was the Chrysler, then a down grated affordable version was the Plymouth, while Dodge was the sport version of the Chrysler. Back then it started at Chrysler worked down from there. Now seems it’s Dodge and Chrysler seems to have to spin off from there. Funny how things change.
 
How about a 300 sedan with suicide doors standard and a base price under $60 grand, a true poor man's Rolls Royce??
Only potential challenge to designing it w/ suicide doors is that you might need a wheelbase stretch over the Charger because the trailing edge of the rear doors would need to be virtually straight to accommodate both an upper and lower hinge (Look at rear doors on current Rolls' and past Lincoln Continentals for reference).
 
I think that Chrysler is going to have a really hard time becoming a high-volume brand again (I would love to be proven wrong, but I just do not see it). They have been out of too many segments for too long, there is no obvious role for Chrysler in most segments (unlike Dodge, Jeep, and Ram), and I think most of their buyers have moved on to other brands.

If they are going to be low-volume and an EV brand, they might as well become a high-margin brand directly competing with vehicles like Tesla and Cadillac's EVs.

Rather than a re-skinned Charger sold as the Chrysler 300, they might be better off producing a new Chrysler Concorde as a Model S competitor, especially if, as has been reported, the styling of future Chrysler vehicles is going to be based on the Halcyon concept.

Instead of the "brute in a suit" upscale muscle car that the 300 has been and would be, the Concorde could focus on minimalist styling, aerodynamics, luxury, minimal NVH, comfort, and cutting-edge technology (like the Concorde jet). And it could still be fast, but more like a Model S Plaid than like a Hellcat.

Leaning into the Concorde being an EV could actually simplify its design. The Concorde could still be based on the Charger Daytona (including the 800-volt drivetrain, eventually) but being an EV only would eliminate the need to accommodate the Hurricane I6. Giving it a low hood and pointy nose like the Halcyon concept would eliminate the need for the R-wing, and reducing NVH would eliminate the need for the Fratzonic chambered exhaust.

This formula could be replicated in other segments, with much of the engineering for Chrysler's low-volume, high-margin vehicles being already done for their higher-volume platform-mates. A Chrysler Airflow D-CUV (Model Y competitor) could be based on the Wagoneer S. A full-size Chrysler Aspen CUV could be based on the upcoming STLA Large Durango/Stealth. A Chrysler Portal C-MPV could be based on the upcoming STLA Medium Compass. The upcoming Pacifica EV could share its body with a new Chrysler Voyager (which would be the exception for the brand's formula, being priced lower and with HEV, PHEV, and/or ICE drivetrains to attempt to retain the brand's current, traditional minivan buyers). All would be EVs (except Voyager) with Halcyon-inspired styling, aerodynamic designs, minimal NVH, and the latest in safety, autonomous driving, AI, and connectivity technology.

In order for this strategy to work, execution would need to be flawless. Styling would need to be jaw-droppingly beautiful, technology would need to be mind-blowing, and quality and reliability would need to be beyond reproach-- a daunting task indeed. Introducing each vehicle after its higher-volume platform-mate would allow Chrysler to have most engineering and production kinks worked out.

Chrysler as a Tesla fighter could potentially find buyers outside of the U.S. and Canada in markets like China and the Middle East and, to a lesser extent, Europe and Australia, making Chrysler more of an international (but still low-volume) brand.

These vehicles would obviously not appeal to traditional Mopar enthusiasts, but targeting a new, smaller, more affluent audience might be less risky than trying to re-enter high-volume segments that have left Chrysler behind. The Mopar faithful would still have Dodge, Jeep, and Ram to provide the kinds of vehicle they are passionate about.
 
Luxury sedans aren't selling and large luxury SUVs are definitely not selling. The Chrysler brand doesn't need to join the other Stellantis products which regularly occupy the monthly slowest sellers list.

How about a 300 sedan with suicide doors standard and a base price under $60 grand, a true poor man's Rolls Royce??
You've just described the Imperial concept from twenty years ago. It's too late now and well past the sell by date. You are right about a poor man's luxury car.

Rather than a re-skinned Charger sold as the Chrysler 300, they might be better off producing a new Chrysler Concorde as a Model S competitor, especially if, as has been reported, the styling of future Chrysler vehicles is going to be based on the Halcyon concept.
The Chrysler brand worked best when it was a discount luxury car. The recently discontinued Chrysler 300C and the Imperial concept previously mentioned were exactly that. The Concord, 300M, and LHS were also successful in that role as well. The way forward for the brand is being a discount version of what's selling now. How does a Chrysler Halcyon become a discounted Tesla model S? Use less batteries. Toyota is showing the way with their Crown Series hybrids. While there isn't a pure battery electric or PHEV Crown available, the power train offerings are plug and play. The Crown Sedan offers a choice of the legacy hybrid system with a lower power e-axle like the new Camry or a Hybrid Max which uses a turbo four cylinder, 6 speed automatic in front with the drive unit from the BZ4X in the rear. The Chinese are using IC engines as generators for extended range EVs as well.

In a market with a 50-50 split between EV mandates or not, Chrysler needs vehicles with plug and play drive modules, fully electric, PHEV, legacy hybrid and mild hybrid. That means giving up some styling aerodynamics to use an IC engines for some versions, but it will allow for a lower entry price.
 
This rendering is really outstanding especially the tradition inspired Chrysler grill that immediately communicates that it is a Chrysler. What really disappointed with the Airflow was the cookie cutter undistinguished front end that evoked little brand identity or styling imagination. Let’s not forget, that in spite of almost any marketing support or substantial interior updating for years, the 300 sedan sold pretty well for most of its run. Imagine how well it might have done with support from the corporate executives. Those doubting its potential in the luxury sedan market should consider these facts and the clear path to success that lies ahead with a luxury product that really, really should look much like this rendering. If the Charger Daytona flops as the reviews everywhere this week sadly predict, the return on investment lies in a Charger based 300 sedan with.a pair of Hurricane engines. An electric 300 need not be offered, please. This is a no brainer which means these guys could blow it. The answer to some of Chryslers woes has just been served up on a silver platter. It’s a gift too good to ignore.
 
Luxury sedans aren't selling and large luxury SUVs are definitely not selling. The Chrysler brand doesn't need to join the other Stellantis products which regularly occupy the monthly slowest sellers list.


You've just described the Imperial concept from twenty years ago. It's too late now and well past the sell by date. You are right about a poor man's luxury car.


The Chrysler brand worked best when it was a discount luxury car. The recently discontinued Chrysler 300C and the Imperial concept previously mentioned were exactly that. The Concord, 300M, and LHS were also successful in that role as well. The way forward for the brand is being a discount version of what's selling now. How does a Chrysler Halcyon become a discounted Tesla model S? Use less batteries. Toyota is showing the way with their Crown Series hybrids. While there isn't a pure battery electric or PHEV Crown available, the power train offerings are plug and play. The Crown Sedan offers a choice of the legacy hybrid system with a lower power e-axle like the new Camry or a Hybrid Max which uses a turbo four cylinder, 6 speed automatic in front with the drive unit from the BZ4X in the rear. The Chinese are using IC engines as generators for extended range EVs as well.

In a market with a 50-50 split between EV mandates or not, Chrysler needs vehicles with plug and play drive modules, fully electric, PHEV, legacy hybrid and mild hybrid. That means giving up some styling aerodynamics to use an IC engines for some versions, but it will allow for a lower entry price.
Hey now, a new luxury 300 can't do as bad as the Hornet :D
 

Chrysler Really Needs A New 300 Based On The New Charger​

After Driving The New Charger Daytona, It Makes Me Really Want A Chrysler Version...​


View attachment 10540

Stellantis has made it clear that Chrysler is on the path toward becoming an electrified or fully-electric brand by 2028. However, with the recent departure of former CEO Carlos Tavares and a pivot away from his “Dare Forward 2030” strategic plan, questions linger about the brand’s future direction. While these leadership changes could cause delays or adjustments, the brand’s reinvention may already be taking shape beneath the surface.

Does anyone here really believe that the arrogant Euro executives at Stellantis are willing acknowledge they and Tavares have blundered to the point of company extermination? They don't understand the NA market and likely never will. They couldn't care less about A new Chrysler 300. One should not believe they have any intention of publicly admitting they have been total blockheads about the entire Chrysler lineup (what's left of it) that had been contributing 50% of the company cash flow. I'm counting them out, and have no intention of ever buying any of their grossly overpriced cars.
 
Does anyone here really believe that the arrogant Euro executives at Stellantis are willing acknowledge they and Tavares have blundered to the point of company extermination? They don't understand the NA market and likely never will. They couldn't care less about A new Chrysler 300. One should not believe they have any intention of publicly admitting they have been total blockheads about the entire Chrysler lineup (what's left of it) that had been contributing 50% of the company cash flow. I'm counting them out, and have no intention of ever buying any of their grossly overpriced cars.
Well here is the chance the arrogant euro exc’s can save face and the NA arm of the company by throwing CT under the bus and blame HIM for this whole mess!! They can say we know the mistakes that he made , wink, wink and say that’s why we brought Tim back. Simple fix.
 
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There is NO ROI on Sedan for Chrysler... Sorry there isn't enough Xenophobia in the world to justify it. The Charger is hard enough, I am so glad we are getting it. Lincoln killed any chance for there to be another 300.

And AGAIN, this is not me not wanting a 300 this is me explaining reality. Traditional Luxury Domestic Sedan is DEAD in the USA the demo has aged out.

To release a new 300 it would have to be something distinctly different, Perhaps something in Tesla S range better yet X/Y range.

In world where there is no ROI based on Sales and Margin... you need another ROI. The best is ROI on a Chrysler would be reintroduction to the biggest market in the world that is current carrying Bu Ick and to fulfill the Fleet requirements that start in Jan for the CARB states.

BUT HERE WE are if it is Mentioned as EV the ONLINE Peanut gallery that has ZERO grasp on the regulatory realities OEMs face will lose their collective minds and kill any Chrysler product that has even the smallest chance of getting through the IMPLIMENTATION GATE.
 
To release a new 300 it would have to be something distinctly different, Perhaps something in Tesla S range better yet X/Y range.
Even after the departure of CT, Leap remains on the Stellantis roster of brands. Lincoln, Cadillac and Buick survive because of their Chinese connections, perhaps Chrysler should consider this as well. After I saw videos of the Leap C01 sedan, the Chrysler Halcyon concept made a lot more sense.

Build something similar to the Leap C01 here. Use domestic built parts to avoid tariffs. Offer the choice of pure EV or extended range. Give it controls that Americans want, ie knobs and buttons.

Where did a Chinese automobile startup get the idea for an extended range EV sedan anyway?

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The American luxury sedan market isn't dead, it's just boring. What it can't be is the same old same old that everything has become, it needs to be something special. I think an STLA platform Chrysler 300M would be an amazing vehicle that can compete with Tesla and the BMW electric 5-series and be what the Daytona is for the luxury market and also a potent performer with the Hurricane-6 powertrains. The idea has merit.
 
The American luxury sedan market isn't dead, it's just boring. What it can't be is the same old same old that everything has become, it needs to be something special. I think an STLA platform Chrysler 300M would be an amazing vehicle that can compete with Tesla and the BMW electric 5-series and be what the Daytona is for the luxury market and also a potent performer with the Hurricane-6 powertrains. The idea has merit.
Traditional American Luxury as defined by Pre-Lutz Cadillac, Lincoln Sedans and Chyrsler Sedans is DEAD DEAD DEAD. The last Continental killed it... Killed a 300 replacement at the last gate.

What you decribed has merit, but not on it own. Fleet mandates and China would help.
 
Where did a Chinese automobile startup get the idea for an extended range EV sedan anyway?
Likely Toyota and Honda.... Which early on they discovered the difficulties of Skateboarding a traditional ICE powertrain.

Also Geely, they found out quick with the London Taxi that Pure EV is not enough.

STLA is late to party... which despite all the whining and moaning may turn out to be a blessing for many of the upcoming products as they can pivot to Hybrid from EV NOW.
 
#1 selling Vehicle in the world is Model Y, that Chrysler the only brand that a pure competitor would make sense doesn't have one yet is a Real crime.

That Pepe LeCheapskate for all his Green postering didn't green light (see what I did there) is a real shame. I suppose unless it was French it would get a chance.

I get the idea of Halo Cars like the 300 but Chrysler needs a mass market vehicle and STLA needs Fleet percentage for CARB.
 
As beautiful a rendering as it is, consumers are not buying cars these days. SUV's are what is in demand.
 
I tend to agree that the general sedan market is like the Minivan market, and it what it is. Stalwarts like Chrysler, Honda, and Kia are owning the market and the barrier to entry is high for minivans so you will see few try. Toyota and Kia pretty much own the sedan market, with a few others toying with it as imports (Volvo/Polstar, BMW, Mercedes, etc)

I do disagree about the Chrysler with a deversified market. I think that is a recipe to make it not adding value over Dodge or some other brand like Fiat or introducing a Euro brand back in US.

If EVs are going to be politically driven (at least for the next decade in the US), having Chrysler be EV brand it probably a strategic move. Chrysler will sell more in left leaning administrations or high fuel price times, and Dodge or some other brand will sell more in more right leaning or low fuel cost times. This means the Dodge boys will get their ICE and the EV investments can continue.

Would people outside the fans who frequent this board buy a ICE based Chrysler SUV, Sedan, or CUV over a Honda, Toyota, Kia? Aside from the Minivan, it would be a hard sell based on evidence of existing trends and consumer behavior.

Right now - low cost vehicles are the interesting area. The S.K. based Buicks, the Mavericks, or the lower cost Hyundais. Chrysler has a chance to not get lost in the sea by being distinctive. Their near absence is an opportunity to resplash. Whoever said Tesla like fighter was spot on. They have to learn what failed with Eagle (Euro fighter ) and make a splash.

Ask yourself: Would you rather have an ICE Dodge line up with EVs here and there as speciality vehicles based off the foundations and learnings with Chrysler vehicles -or a yo-yo experience every four or five years as this shakes out?

The only problem with this is Dodge was the muscle brand and I think they just finally got that worked out with Carvan and Journey gone. I'd hate to see another shift there and mess up any kind of sustained strategy. That is where my argument starts to sour.....as Jeep or RAM can't pick up that area, and that leaves..... FIAT ??? (and yes, the Plymouth fanboys will scream here and maybe an Eagle zealot or two) I've rambled enough....
 
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