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2023-Q1 STLA US sales down 9% YoY, Jeep down -20%

ChargerFan1

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Canada blood bath

Grand Cherokee down 84%
Gladiator down 62%
Compass down 48%
Pacifica down 40%
Charger down 39%
Grand wagoneer down 23%
Renegade down 39%
Challenger down 15%
 

Deckard Cain

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Jeep and Ram dropped a lot. those are the money makers. Wow.
 

James.A

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I've been to the local dealer a few times in past few months and the GC prices are insane quite frankly. 60k plus for everything on the lot, so I'm not surprised to see sales down if these are the prices on lots nation wide. As for Dodge, who knew increasing the price by thousands of dollars but not updating the car would lead to a sales slump?
 

cgseller

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Cherokee is actually up, last model year, although there is a typo in the chart saying a loss.
 

bill burke

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Indeed, Grand Cherokees are costly when loaded. Frankly, I think Jeep blew it on the exterior styling, bland, especially the sides and rear lights. Ralph has had some stunning designs, but some losers too. Chrysler 200, the first Cherokee,and the current Grand Cherokee and Ram pickup that share similar design characteristics and have not resonated with customers, me included.
Time it seems for a major refresh of both already. Sales tell the story.
 

bill burke

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FCA Reports First-quarter 2023 US Sales - Stellantis (NYSE:STLA)

Are you ready for a month long shutdown at Toledo, Jefferson 1 and 2, SHAP, and WTAP during the summer? Because that's what's coming.

Remember - this is 100% on Tavares and the yes-men at CTC.
Too much money spent on the green agenda and electrification. Trying to make up this spending by going too much with expensive models. Interest rates are not helping with traditional Jeep buyers being priced out. GC is unremarkably styled too. Bad economic times until things change with new political and corporate leadership.
 

ipa0628

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Indeed, Grand Cherokees are costly when loaded. Frankly, I think Jeep blew it on the exterior styling, bland, especially the sides and rear lights. Ralph has had some stunning designs, but some losers too. Chrysler 200, the first Cherokee,and the current Grand Cherokee and Ram pickup that share similar design characteristics and have not resonated with customers, me included.
Time it seems for a major refresh of both already. Sales tell the story
The 1st time I saw pictures of the DT Ram in '18 I thought they blew it big time. Generic front end styling, that did not stand out from the crowd anymore. Ram threw away 20+ years of brand identity for this mess of a front end. It needs fixed asap. I do like the front of the Ram EV, the production version, not the concept. If that is a preview of the new look of the Ram, I think that is a lot better than the ugly brow design.
The Classic was introduced in '09 and the design has aged well, unlike the new version.
The GC and GW are very bland. The rear clip of the GW is a styling mess. That rear qtr window looks ungainly and there is way too much overhang. Maybe they can restyle a new Durango out of the GC - L that blows us away. We don't need a Durango based on the GW.
 

James.A

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Indeed, Grand Cherokees are costly when loaded. Frankly, I think Jeep blew it on the exterior styling, bland, especially the sides and rear lights. Ralph has had some stunning designs, but some losers too. Chrysler 200, the first Cherokee,and the current Grand Cherokee and Ram pickup that share similar design characteristics and have not resonated with customers, me included.
Time it seems for a major refresh of both already. Sales tell the story.
I agree on the styling, rear end in particular. I like the front but the c pillar is gross and rear is unremarkable.
 

UN4GTBL

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Canada blood bath

Grand Cherokee down 84%
Gladiator down 62%
Compass down 48%
Pacifica down 40%
Charger down 39%
Grand wagoneer down 23%
Renegade down 39%
Challenger down 15%

Prices go up, sales go down

I'm seeing 0% rates advertised again, hopefully they figure out that their pricing is out of line?
 

bill burke

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Time is approaching rapidly when new product will be hitting showrooms. As stated here in, the Hurricane family of engines and other ICE variants, not electrification, will sustain much of these offerings for years. Will Stellantis, especially since decidedly European thinking skewed, adjust their investment strategy if and when, as I predict, the acceptance of an all electric portfolio hits a stone wall? The Jeep family faces the need to replace the Renegade, Compass and Cherokee, along with their global family derivatives, very soon. Will Jeep succumb to market realities or to a questionable green agenda? What about Dodge where fans are in an uproar about losing the Hemi, let alone driving an electric appliance, will the Hurricane family be enough to tame the masses?
Wind farms killing birds and whales, solar farms floundering in snow belts and cloud covered areas. California limiting electric car charging due to the lack of electric grid capacity. Indeed time is rapidly approaching when all vehicle manufacturers must face reality. Too obvious for most folks.
 

cygnus

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If Dodge fans don’t find the allure of the Hurricane + AWD and by proxy the Charger/Challenger now being a four season vehicle value prop meeting or exceeding the value prop of a Hemi, then Dodge is dead. It’s that simple.

Spoiler - Dodge is dead. 90% of Dodge fans don’t care that the next variant will have AWD or that the base Hurricane is a few HP faster than the base Hemi, or for some super HP EV variant.

The only thing that MAY save the next generation Charger/Challenger is a mild hybrid or PHEV Hurricane variant, but I’m 99% sure that is not coming. All the investment went into the EV model, which was the wrong decision.

Their basic understanding of their existing customer is dead wrong and/or this is being forced by Tavares and Elkann. Probably both.
 
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ChargerFan1

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If Dodge fans don’t find the allure of the Hurricane + AWD and by proxy the Charger/Challenger now being a four season vehicle value prop meeting or exceeding the value prop of a Hemi, then Dodge is dead. It’s that simple.

Spoiler - Dodge is dead. 90% of Dodge fans don’t care that the next variant will have AWD or that the base Hurricane is a few HP faster than the base Hemi, or for some super HP EV variant.

The only thing that MAY save the next generation Charger/Challenger is a mild hybrid or PHEV Hurricane variant, but I’m 99% sure that is not coming. All the investment went into the EV model, which was the wrong decision.

Their basic understanding of their existing customer is dead wrong and/or this is being forced by Tavares and Elkann. Probably both.
I had a 392 charger and a cranked up turbo AWD Talon years prior, it still comes down to price. If the charger AWD turbo blah blah is 80K they will continue to be laughed at by me
 

James.A

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I had a 392 charger and a cranked up turbo AWD Talon years prior, it still comes down to price. If the charger AWD turbo blah blah is 80K they will continue to be laughed at by me
Looking at the current prices, I have a feeling we are going to see a price jump for the next gen. I feel they want to position these as BMW rivals and will push closer to BMW prices.
 

ChargerFan1

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Looking at the current prices, I have a feeling we are going to see a price jump for the next gen. I feel they want to position these as BMW rivals and will push closer to BMW prices.
They can build a better BMW, and people will still buy the BMW. Go ask GM how the Cadillac ATS, and even the better-than-m4-handling camaro are doing for them. Check out Genesis too, even Alfa for that matter. The charger and challenger sold so well because its a car designed for our environment, flat straight roads and highways, thumping stereo and burnouts - jury came back and said this is all the majority in North America wants or needs. The cars could be a wee bit smaller, but that's it. There is the winter aspect, which I am sure they are aware of and why they are going that route and no complaints from me by offering AWD and not on a lifted up weirdo V6 only model, the hatch on the charger could be cool too.
 
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James.A

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They can build a better BMW, and people will still buy the BMW. Go ask GM how the Cadillac ATS, and even the better-than-m4-handling camaro are doing for them. Check out Genesis too, even Alfa for that matter. The charger and challenger sold so well because its a car designed for our environment, flat straight roads and highways, thumping stereo and burnouts - jury came back and said this is all the majority in North America wants or needs. The cars could be a wee bit smaller, but that's it. There is the winter aspect, which I am sure they are aware of and why they are going that route and no complaints from me by offering AWD and not on a lifted up weirdo V6 only model, the hatch on the charger could be cool too.
I'm not arguing the merits of going after BMW, just that they seem to be and will price accordingly - I hope not.
 

bill burke

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If Dodge fans don’t find the allure of the Hurricane + AWD and by proxy the Charger/Challenger now being a four season vehicle value prop meeting or exceeding the value prop of a Hemi, then Dodge is dead. It’s that simple.

Spoiler - Dodge is dead. 90% of Dodge fans don’t care that the next variant will have AWD or that the base Hurricane is a few HP faster than the base Hemi, or for some super HP EV variant.

The only thing that MAY save the next generation Charger/Challenger is a mild hybrid or PHEV Hurricane variant, but I’m 99% sure that is not coming. All the investment went into the EV model, which was the wrong decision.

Their basic understanding of their existing customer is dead wrong and/or this is being forced by Tavares and Elkann. Probably both.
I would bet there is a serious conversation between Dodge management and the woke hypnotized overlords at Stellantis about a revamped Hemi. Thank you Ford. Anyone, even a brain dead tree hugger, must realize that an honest look at reality dictates an evolutionary approach to, at best, limited electrification of the industry. There is and will be in the future a large market and a totally environmentally beneficial case for advanced ICE powered vehicles. In some cases, like Dodge, this thinking underpins the brands survival. As an environmental pragmatist I see a role for electrification, but my pragmatic modifying adjective allows me the grace of letting, science, technology and market forces play out as reality dictates. A reality the Ford people seem to accept. Pragmatic if not enlightened.
I see a future for Dodge, even if limited by the Hurricane shortfalls. That future depends on a new generation of free minded humans that manipulates and navigates this short sighted green agenda, yet above all, ones who still have a heartbeat and some need for the outrageous. If that fails to happen our world may see a infinitesimally small environmental improvement, perhaps, but in that world generations to follow will never experience a true Dodge or the thrill of pure Detroit defined muscle or what the hell a “Scat Pack” is or what that stupid bee symbolizes. Too bad the future seems so dim. Maybe these inner circle assumed corporate conversations can shed some light on the future and the logic therein as Ford has grasped. In true Mopar fervor I pledge “ Give me Dodge or Give me Death!”
 

AlexB

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I would bet there is a serious conversation between Dodge management and the woke hypnotized overlords at Stellantis about a revamped Hemi. Thank you Ford. Anyone, even a brain dead tree hugger, must realize that an honest look at reality dictates an evolutionary approach to, at best, limited electrification of the industry. There is and will be in the future a large market and a totally environmentally beneficial case for advanced ICE powered vehicles. In some cases, like Dodge, this thinking underpins the brands survival. As an environmental pragmatist I see a role for electrification, but my pragmatic modifying adjective allows me the grace of letting, science, technology and market forces play out as reality dictates. A reality the Ford people seem to accept. Pragmatic if not enlightened.
I see a future for Dodge, even if limited by the Hurricane shortfalls. That future depends on a new generation of free minded humans that manipulates and navigates this short sighted green agenda, yet above all, ones who still have a heartbeat and some need for the outrageous. If that fails to happen our world may see a infinitesimally small environmental improvement, perhaps, but in that world generations to follow will never experience a true Dodge or the thrill of pure Detroit defined muscle or what the hell a “Scat Pack” is or what that stupid bee symbolizes. Too bad the future seems so dim. Maybe these inner circle assumed corporate conversations can shed some light on the future and the logic therein as Ford has grasped. In true Mopar fervor I pledge “ Give me Dodge or Give me Death!”
You must not be paying any attention to what Ford says and do and just bitter rambling about “missing the “bankrupt & FAILED Chrysler Corp”.

Second of all if anything the talk about HEMI is going the other way towards out of production all together. :
 

cygnus

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The 2024 Presidential election will decide what ends up happening.
 

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