Zapped - Hornet PHEV won't be eligible for $7500 EV credit

[cygnus]

"At present, that condition does not apply to the Italian-built Hornet, which is assembled in Pomigliano d’Arco near Naples, alongside the Alfa Romeo Tonale. As it does not meet the domestic production requirement, it is not (as far as we know right now) eligible for the tax credit. That said, please check into available guidance through the Department of Treasury as you shop for an EV, and we will come back and update this information if we’re wrong on that."

2023 Dodge Hornet Kicks Off Electrified Era with a $30K Price Tag, Torquey PHEV

The 2023 Dodge Hornet has arrived to further shake up the small SUV market — including a turbocharged GT and potent R/T plug-in hybrid.

tflcar.com

Lol, crazy. I could see more Hornet PHEVs being sold in Europe than Tonales. Watch, leadership will bend (and start selling the Hornet in Europe in 2024 or 2025) on this as soon as volume targets aren't being hit - there's too many stakeholders here to make everyone happy - the Italian branch of STLA, Chrysler America, and the Italian Unions.

 

[plymouth1]

Shouldn't be any credits for any electric vehicles. If you want one buy one but don't use tax money to do it

 

[TripleT]

Shouldn't be any credits for any electric vehicles. If you want one buy one but don't use tax money to do it

I agree, the Japanese manufacturers are throwing a fit already, USA will be taken to WTO on this one.

 

[pumadog]

A PHEV gets you 7,500 tax credit in the US? Wow!

Why should they sell the Hornet in Europe? There's not even a Dodge dealer network. They'd rather discount the Tonale or rebadge as a Fiat.

 

[lickfurniture]

Taxes are always a big deal when buying a car.

basket random​

 

[Deckard Cain]

That requirement to be built in the US will eventually be dropped. It might take one or two years though, and this makes a difference.
I guess the PHEV will mostly be sold as a Tonale in Europe. When do sales start in the US?

 

[cygnus]

That requirement to be built in the US will eventually be dropped. It might take one or two years though, and this makes a difference.
I guess the PHEV will mostly be sold as a Tonale in Europe. When do sales start in the US?

The requirement to manufacture in either the US, Mexico, or Canada will not be dropped. The legislation was written by General Motors, more or less.

 

[Deckard Cain]

Oh, I know. But if this goes to the WTO it might eventually change...
In Europe, the PHEV will be very advantageous for renting and leasing schemes in some countries.

 

[Deckard Cain]

And what did I tell you?

European-Made EVs May Receive U.S. Federal Tax Credits​

 

[TripleT]

yeah it was blatantly violation of many free trade agreements

 

[cygnus]

And what did I tell you?

European-Made EVs May Receive U.S. Federal Tax Credits​

It may open up an additional door - US made EVs going to Europe, not just those from Canada and Mexico. Remember, GM wrote this legislation. They knew the EU would object. We will see if the EU is willing to bend on allowing US made EVs.

There is very little product these days from Europe, even with subsidies, made in high volume and sold in equally high volume here. It's just overflow from the VW plants to make the unions happy.

 

[Deckard Cain]

It may open up an additional door - US made EVs going to Europe, not just those from Canada and Mexico. Remember, GM wrote this legislation. They knew the EU would object. We will see if the EU is willing to bend on allowing US made EVs.

There is very little product these days from Europe, even with subsidies, made in high volume and sold in equally high volume here. It's just overflow from the VW plants to make the unions happy.

The issue is not that. US made EVs receive the same subsidies in Europe as the european ones. Just as chinese EVs do, or japanese.
This is opening the door in the US for european made EVs to receive the federal incentive. If this is the case then the Hornet PHEV will have access to the subsidy.

 

[cygnus]

The issue is not that. US made EVs receive the same subsidies in Europe as the european ones. Just as chinese EVs do, or japanese.
This is opening the door in the US for european made EVs to receive the federal incentive. If this is the case then the Hornet PHEV will have access to the subsidy.

Are you sure about that? The only manufacturer exporting to the EU from the US that I'm aware of, is Rivian. And it's anemic.

 

[TripleT]

Doesn't matter.... You can't violate current trade agreements by fiat, even though one may try. There is a general lack of competence in the Executive branch at the moment, the whole cause and effect rules have generally been ignored. The WTO will get involved and it will be recanted. That one claims GM did this is pretty funny; one better take a closer look at their supply chain... Importing things and re-boxing them doesn't make in NA content.

 

[cygnus]

I don't disagree with you that GM is probably breaking the content rules - but there will only be enforcing (tattling from GM to NHTSA/Treasury) for battery chemistry composition. There will never be enforcement of the content/trim coming from China, and believe me, I know the actual suppliers that are building the trim in China and sending it to US GM plants. All of this is to lock out cheap Chinese EVs from Chinese OEMs and Tesla Model 3 SR that use Lithium Iron Phosphate.

Again though - GM wrote the legislation, and it starts taking affect 90 days from now. What happens with the WTO is TBD, but as of 2023.01.01, the rules are structured to favor GM.

Not that it matters because GM sold 36 Lyriqs (lol) and 411 Hummers in Q3. They can't even build it even if they want to.

 

[Deckard Cain]

Are you sure about that? The only manufacturer exporting to the EU from the US that I'm aware of, is Rivian. And it's anemic.

Tesla exports the Model S and X to Europe I think? The thing is: they might receive the EV subsidies, but they're not exempt from tariffs.

 

[cygnus]

S and X were built in Fremont and shipped to Europe. That stopped in 2022 and I'm hearing it will be well into 2023 before it resumes, if ever. Neither vehicle is really sought after in Europe vs. the 3 and Y. China only builds 3 and Y, and exports the 3 and Y to Europe while they figure out how to build cars that aren't complete trash (from a quality standpoint) in Berlin.

 

[Deckard Cain]

The Y production in Berlin is already ongoing and sales in Europe shot up thanks to that this last month.

 

[TripleT]

The issue isn't now it is the future..... when production ramps up in the USA you don't need imbalanced trade practices. Especially when a lot of the capacity for componentry is not in NA.