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With sedan sales dropping fast could the Charger go back to being a coupe?

Mopar426

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I know the charger has seemingly done well in the shrinking sedan market and it also wears 4-doors well but you have to wonder if FCA is nervous about spending all that money on its next gen model when the market could be collapsing. They have to be skittish especially after the dart and 200. Coupe sales are also very strong, this angle could allow them to make the challenger a little smaller to go directly against the mustang and camaro while letting the charger be the bigger, more luxurious muscle car that it used to be in the late 60's while making it a true modern and futuristic 68-70 design.
 

Bili

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Coupe sales are going down even faster if we are speaking about global trends.
 

Cody's Car Conundrum

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I know the charger has seemingly done well in the shrinking sedan market and it also wears 4-doors well but you have to wonder if FCA is nervous about spending all that money on its next gen model when the market could be collapsing. They have to be skittish especially after the dart and 200. Coupe sales are also very strong, this angle could allow them to make the challenger a little smaller to go directly against the mustang and camaro while letting the charger be the bigger, more luxurious muscle car that it used to be in the late 60's while making it a true modern and futuristic 68-70 design.
The Charger is doing very well in fact. Dodge basically has a monopoly on the market (like Toyota and Honda have on the compact car market). It sold 80,226 units last year. There's really no good reason to make the Charger a coupe when it's doing just fine in sales.

Making the Challenger smaller; when it has bested the Camaro multiple times for No.2 in "pony car sales", doesn't make sense either. I suspect that the Camaro is losing sales for two reasons. The first is the styling. The second is because it's getting smaller. As far as I know, there are widespread complaints of it being hard to see out of and the cockpit being cramped (due to its size). The Challenger is beating the Camaro despite its "size disadvantage". Really, the Challenger doesn't need to get smaller. It just needs to go on a bit of a diet.

The Camaro might get even smaller still. If Chevrolet gets rid of their front-engined Corvette completely and just has the C8, what car will take that spot (front engine sports car) in their lineup? The Camaro. Even if it doesn't get smaller, Dodge only needs to introduce a "Son-of-Viper" (trademark @Muther) and they'll have a vehicle to compete with the Camaro. And no, a Barracuda (IIRC) is not happening. A "Son-of-Viper" is much more likely than a Barracuda. Bottom Line: If the Camaro does move "upmarket" to replace the C7 'Vette, that'll just move the Camaro even further away from competing with the Challenger.

I can't imagine any automaker that isn't nervous about spending money on a next-generation vehicle. They're basically taking a risk by trying to improve on an existing vehicle (or trying to create an entirely new one). What happens if they fail? Well, that's tons of money down the drain. Now, whether or not they're more nervous due to the market collapsing is a different issue. Not only do they have to satisfy existing Charger owners but they also need to try and get new ones into the mix. That won't be easy. There's also this thought to contend with: The Charger is currently defying trends. Despite the market collapsing, the Charger is doing well in sales. I think the problem is less "the large-sedan market is collapsing" and more "can the next-generation Charger continue to defy the trend?" To put it another way, I think the problem isn't so much the market itself, but if the next Charger will be just as much of a hit as the current. It's a much more "individualized" problem, rather than a systemic one IMHO.

The difference with the Dart and 200 is the markets. Toyota, Honda, and I think Nissan already have big sales in the markets the Dart and 200 were trying to compete in. Trying to drag away sales from established brands in those markets was wishful thinking at best and possibly naive at worst. Dart and 200 launch problems didn't help, multiple Dart SEMA concepts with parts that were promised but most never delivered on didn't help, and things about the 200 I won't get into also didn't help. What I'm getting at is that the Dart and 200 aren't good examples of why FCA should be squeamish about the Challenger/Charger/300. Because unlike the Dart and 200, the Challenger/Charger/300 are selling well and essentially have a market all to themselves. The Dart and 200 were fighting in very competitive markets and when they saw that they weren't making much money in those markets (for multiple reasons) they decided to stop production of those vehicles and switch focus on a market they could make money on. The trending CUV (and now SUV) market. That market wasn't heavily competitive IIRC and thus they could pump out some vehicles and make more money. But what competition does FCA have in the markets the Challenger/Charger/300 sell in? Little to none.
 

Mopar426

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Charger sales in 2017 were down 9% from 2016
Charger sales were down another 8.1% from 2017 to 2018

It still sells in good numbers though, I am just proposing a potential solution if for whatever reason sales really start to fall off a cliff as other sedans have. Cars like the Camry and Accord may cease to exist in a few years.
 

Cody's Car Conundrum

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Charger sales in 2017 were down 9% from 2016
Charger sales were down another 8.1% from 2017 to 2018

It still sells in good numbers though, I am just proposing a potential solution if for whatever reason sales really start to fall off a cliff as other sedans have. Cars like the Camry and Accord may cease to exist in a few years.
2016 Numbers: 95,437 units
2017 Numbers: 88,351 units.

Sure, it went down 9%, but from 95,000 units to 88,000 units. The Charger is doing fine. It would take a Titanic downturn for the Charger to be in any real trouble. Plus, @Bili already stated that Coupe sales are taking a dive even faster. So, theoretically, making the Charger a coupe would just reduce its sales even further. Unless it defied trends like it is now. Even the 2017-2018 numbers are fine. 88,351 units for 2017 and 80,226 units for 2018.

The problem in that potential solution is that FCA would have to compromise the Challenger to give the Charger the room it would need to succeed as a coupe. So that the Challenger doesn't cannibalize sales from a Charger coupe and vice versa. It makes more sense to try to keep the Charger profitable/successful as a sedan and leave the Challenger alone than it does to sacrifice some of the draw of the Challenger just so the Charger can live in an arguably compromised state. And once again, Dodge gets all the customers in that space. Changing the Charger from a sedan to a coupe would give some other automaker the chance to steal that spot away from Dodge. Which, in the long run, would suck. Even if sales do fall a bit, it's probably better to occupy the space so that they continue getting visibility in that market and continue being (basically) the only option. So even if sales fall, all the sales would go to them.

Lastly, this is a topic that's really been beaten to death. I've not seen your reasoning before, but the wish/idea for the Charger to return to being a coup basically dates back to when people found out the '06 Charger was coming back as a sedan.

 

Ryan

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The appeal to me would be gone if it turned into a coupe. Every time I consider another Challenger, I remember that I originally traded a Challenger for a Charger because I like the easier rear seat access (and prefer the more modern styling, but that’s irrelevant).

In my opinion, there’s just more appeal to have a sedan that can seat five people comfortably and still haul ass.
 

Mopar426

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The appeal to me would be gone if it turned into a coupe. Every time I consider another Challenger, I remember that I originally traded a Challenger for a Charger because I like the easier rear seat access (and prefer the more modern styling, but that’s irrelevant).

In my opinion, there’s just more appeal to have a sedan that can seat five people comfortably and still haul ass.
Trust me I love the Charger too and chose it over the Challenger mainly because side by side the Charger is just much better proportioned IMO. Its almost like the 2 charger doors are as long as the Challengers one door when looking at the sides of them.
 

Muther

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Moving the Charger to a two door would be building a niche vehicle for a very select minority (folks who don’t want a Challenger two door, and do want a Charger two door). The market would soon be satisfied, and then sales would tank. The cost of development of a two door Charger would not be recovered.

Simply put, it’s a choice. There isn’t enough room in the Marketplace for two large FCA coupes. You’d have to choose Challenger, or Charger; you couldn’t have both. Having both would be taking a turn backward toward the old defective Detroit business model.

FCA, and a lot of Challenger buyers are choosing Challenger over a two door Charger.

Right now, the Charger simply works as a four door, and Challenger works better than a two door Charger would.
 

Muther

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Also, is the sedan market shrinking?

It certainly appears to be shrinking?

Or, are other car makers surrendering their non-viable sedans and coupes to Char-llenger?

Sergio said that the market is moving to suv/cuv, but he added that the sedan/coupe market was moving to “specialized” vehicles. Plain Jane coupes and sedans we’re dying—sedans and coupes with performance (or other special purpose) identities would do fine.

I think that is what’s happening here. The Charllenger just gets it.
 

Cody's Car Conundrum

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Also, is the sedan market shrinking?

It certainly appears to be shrinking?

Or, are other car makers surrendering their non-viable sedans and coupes to Char-llenger?

Sergio said that the market is moving to suv/cuv, but he added that the sedan/coupe market was moving to “specialized” vehicles. Plain Jane coupes and sedans we’re dying—sedans and coupes with performance (or other special purpose) identities would do fine.

I think that is what’s happening here. The Charllenger just gets it.
This might explain why Toyota has decided to make -gasp- interesting cars! In terms of how they drive anyway. I think a similar thing is happening over at Honda but I'm not too sure about that.
 

Ryan

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Also, is the sedan market shrinking?

It certainly appears to be shrinking?

Or, are other car makers surrendering their non-viable sedans and coupes to Char-llenger?

Sergio said that the market is moving to suv/cuv, but he added that the sedan/coupe market was moving to “specialized” vehicles. Plain Jane coupes and sedans we’re dying—sedans and coupes with performance (or other special purpose) identities would do fine.

I think that is what’s happening here. The Charllenger just gets it.
This has also led to the next phase of evolution for the sedan, where it turns into more of a fastback crossover for those who want to think they have some all-weather capability. I see two options for sedans in the future: sporty, RWD, performance sedans or hatchback AWD crossovers masquerading as sedans.

1995
 

TripleT

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So you want to Kill the Charger by making is a 2door. The Challenger already exists.... While the sedan market has declined.... it would have to continue it exponential decline to fall to size of the Full sized 2 door market.
 

Freshforged

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This has also led to the next phase of evolution for the sedan, where it turns into more of a fastback crossover for those who want to think they have some all-weather capability. I see two options for sedans in the future: sporty, RWD, performance sedans or hatchback AWD crossovers masquerading as sedans.

View attachment 1995
Don’t recognize the car in that pic—is it one of your chops?
 

sjon

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Don’t recognize the car in that pic—is it one of your chops?

Volvo Polestar
Volvo's performance sub-brand is taking on Tesla and BMW i with its own range of bespoke electric models, including plans for an SUV..

more:
 

DodgeFL

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With ALL vehicle sales in decline watch out for what may be coming. The Charger is doing fine and with the 300 are the last of big sedans. Not everyone wants a SUV or PU truck.
 

Jared B

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The latest rumor is that the next-gen Mustang has been pushed back a few years and will actually grow to Challenger size.

I think it is highly unlikely that Dodge will run 2 different mainstream coupes at the same time, Charger will stay 4 door for the foreseeable future.
 

Mopar426

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The latest rumor is that the next-gen Mustang has been pushed back a few years and will actually grow to Challenger size.

I think it is highly unlikely that Dodge will run 2 different mainstream coupes at the same time, Charger will stay 4 door for the foreseeable future.
Mustangs new "platform" has been pushed to 2023, but its still getting a completely new body and interior before then.
 

Jared B

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Mustangs new "platform" has been pushed to 2023, but its still getting a completely new body and interior before then.

The latest is that it's pushed back to 2026 or later. But it is supposed to get a complete re-do on the current chassis before then now, likely adding the hybrid and possibly electric version as well.

 

Mopar426

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The latest is that it's pushed back to 2026 or later. But it is supposed to get a complete re-do on the current chassis before then now, likely adding the hybrid and possibly electric version as well.

Yup, I knew it was 2020-something and as long as they update the cars properly, nobody will care as the mustang platform is very good, especially in the GT350 trim or PP. I love the Dodge stuff but I am done waiting and getting a 2019 Camaro SS 1LE very soon instead, not paying $50,000+ for a car I've already had from Dodge. They need to get off their butts and update the cars and not just fender flares or more power.
 

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