Un-Official FCA,Ford and GM October U.S sales: Camaro,Malibu and Alfa tanks

AlexB

Well-known member
My thoughts is FCA took marketshare in October by basically being flat, Charger is basically the last "Michigan-Legacy Automaker" sedan standing, and Manley's New plan looks better to me after seeing these numbers in the link (Stelvio down to 549, Giulia down to 464)--it not sustainable in the current form in the U.S.
Some sample of the overall (Un-Official)numbers:
FCA (Excluding Maserati) (October 2019 VS October 2018)
RAM PU:58,091(2019), 49,186(2018)
Grand Cherokee:18,216(2019), 19,109(2018)
Wrangler:15,074 (2019), 13,318(2018)
Cherokee:14,024(2019), 18,598 (2018)
Compass:12,416 (2019), 14,083 (2018)
Grand Caravan:10,441(2019), 11,110 (2018)
Charger:7,581 (2019), 6,316 (2018)
Challenger:4,145 (2019), 5,225(2018)
Gladiator:6,196 (new CY 2019)

GM (October 2019 VS October 2018)
Silverado: 50,052(2019), 44,897(2018)
Equinox: 26,563(2019), 28,093(2018)
Sierra: 19,625(2019), 19,002(2018)
Traverse: 9,828(2019), 10,352(2018)
Colorado: 7,698(2019), 10,145 (2018)
Malibu: 6,052(2019), 12,868(2018)
Camaro: 2,756(2019), 3,760(2018)
Bolt: 1030(2019), 1,727(2018)

Ford (October 2019 VS October 2018)
F-Series:72,442(2019), 70,438(2018)
Explorer: 17,133(2019), 19,034(2018)
Transit: 16,332(2019), 10,757(2018)
Escape:16,008(2019), 20,515(2018)
Fusion:10,887(2019), 15,932(2018)
Edge:9,930(2019), 10,264(2018)
E-Series:4,771(2019), 3,901(2018)
Mustang:4,789(2019), 4,924(2018)
Ranger:8,018 (new CY 2019)

Overall (Un-Official) FCA 2019 October U.S. sales (Excluding Maserati):176,776 (vs 177,391 in October 2018)
Overall GM 2019 October U.S. sales:210,799 (vs 239,472 in October 2018)
Overall Ford Motor 2019 October U.S. sales:188,099(vs 192,616 in October 2018)

 
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Bili

Moderator
Staff member
Alfa must do E-segment cars to become relevant in US. They must have more models to lure people into the showroom.

IMO it also must have halo model as any other sports car brand. Think about Porsche. 911 is an image maker which sells all those SUVs which are bringing profits.
 

pumadog

Member
I said it before somewhere, FCA could design an Alfa Spider to be built in Japan, now that the 124 is EOL and Alfa is pushed down to B – D segment again. Like originally planned. Does anybody know if the contract with Mazda is over?
 

AlexB

Well-known member
Alfa must do E-segment cars to become relevant in US. They must have more models to lure people into the showroom.

IMO it also must have halo model as any other sports car brand. Think about Porsche. 911 is an image maker which sells all those SUVs which are bringing profits.
But alot of makes have failed in the E-segment such as Infiniti and Cadillac. Hence why GM has reverted back to the strategy of a E-Segement size vehicle at an "3-Series price" with the CT5.
 

Bili

Moderator
Staff member
But alot of makes have failed in the E-segment such as Infiniti and Cadillac. Hence why GM has reverted back to the strategy of a E-Segement size vehicle at an "3-Series price" with the CT5.
Car is a sedan as is SUV on my side of the pond. E-SUV should be their ammiraglia. IMO, it's must in US.

5 Series car size at 3 Series price? No problem but then they can't offer performance(it reads cornering from where I'm from) and all other except size will be on 3 Series level.
 

AlexB

Well-known member
Car is a sedan as is SUV on my side of the pond. E-SUV should be their ammiraglia. IMO, it's must in US.

5 Series car size at 3 Series price? No problem but then they can't offer performance(it reads cornering from where I'm from) and all other except size will be on 3 Series level.
Maybe Tavares will have different opinion than Manley (who might decided that any thing starting at $50,000 U$D is better as Maserati).
About Cadillac,(more on CT5: At $37,890 the 2020 Cadillac CT5 Hopes to Compete With the Europeans by Being Dirt Cheap) GM was planning an XT3, so maybe "chase for premium volume" is the "the Michigan way".
 

Bili

Moderator
Staff member
Maybe Tavares will have different opinion than Manley (who might decided that any thing starting at $50,000 U$D is better as Maserati).
About Cadillac,(more on CT5: At $37,890 the 2020 Cadillac CT5 Hopes to Compete With the Europeans by Being Dirt Cheap) GM was planning an XT3, so maybe "chase for premium volume" is the "the Michigan way".
Uhm, Maserati is starting at around $70k so there is room for Alfa.

With merger with spots for a new company will be premium and luxury brand and also China. With Alfa and Maserati mister Tavares will finally have real premium and luxury marque to work on.
 

AlfaCuda

Member
Alfa must do E-segment cars to become relevant in US. They must have more models to lure people into the showroom.

IMO it also must have halo model as any other sports car brand. Think about Porsche. 911 is an image maker which sells all those SUVs which are bringing profits.
A coupe/sports car is an absolute must for Alfa. It’s in their DNA. Chopping off GTV is a big mistake imo. 6C/8C I can understand. Not GTV.
 

Bili

Moderator
Staff member
A coupe/sports car is an absolute must for Alfa. It’s in their DNA. Chopping off GTV is a big mistake imo. 6C/8C I can understand. Not GTV.
If it's just a Giulia Coupe I can understand it why was it killed. In my opinion Alfa needs something which can take on Porsche 911. Maybe not on 911 Turbo or Turbo S which is territory for the newest Ferrari but something to take on Carrera and Carrera S.

Alfa Romeo has a long history of models, even sedans, which could take on 911 and its predecessor 356 and at a lower price.
 

Deckard Cain

Active member
IMO, Manley decided to cut losses and de-invest on Alfa plans to make it a global brand like Jeep.
That means that projects like the GTV and 6C/8C were shifted for Maserati, that no E-SUV would be launched in the short/medium term nor any full size sedan.
This also means that priority was placed on vehicles that would sell more in Europe.

I also hope that Tavares will change this plan. There's no reason why the GTV and 6C/8C can't also be launched together with the Maserati versions.
Tavares is not afraid of cannibalization as it seems to be the norm in FCA. He launches models from all brands in the same segment and it doesn't affect sales of each brand because he knows how to establish proper brand differentiation.
With proper differentiation between vehicles from different brands you don't cannibalize sales, you expand the segment. This is something that execs at FCA fail to understand and that Tavares mastered.
The Citroen C3 did not steal sales from the 208. The C5 Aircross did not steal sales from the Peugeot 3008, nor the Grandland.

Maserati and Alfa have different positioning in the market. Maserati is the Porsche fighter and it needs a halo model to compete against the 911.
Alfa is the BMW/Audi fighter. In that sense launching the GTV makes perfect sense to compete against the Audi A5 and BMW 4-Series. An 8C would be amazing but I don't see it as such a crucial vehicle in that regard.
Now an E-SUV is important IMO if the purpose is to keep Alfa as a global brand. The B-SUV that was prioritized over it is something that is too specific of the european market (it's a small segment in the US). Maybe they'll launch an E-SUV after the Levante is replaced in 2022.
 
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Bili

Moderator
Staff member
IMO, Manley decided to cut losses and de-invest on Alfa plans to make it a global brand like Jeep.
That means that projects like the GTV and 6C/8C were shifted for Maserati, that no E-SUV would be launched in the short/medium term nor any full size sedan.
This also means that priority was placed on vehicles that would sell more in Europe.

I also hope that Tavares will change this plan. There's no reason why the GTV and 6C/8C can't also be launched together with the Maserati versions.
Tavares is not afraid of cannibalization as it seems to be the norm in FCA.
Maserati and Alfa have different positioning in the market. Maserati is the Porsche fighter and it needs a halo model to compete against the 911.
Alfa is the BMW/Audi fighter. In that sense launching the GTV makes perfect sense to compete against the Audi A5 and BMW 4-Series. An 8C would be amazing but I don't see it as such a crucial vehicle in that regard.
Maserati is a Porsche fighter with its sedans and SUVs but AFAIK Maserati was never compared directly with 911. As we know 911 is Porsche's core and halo model. It defines Porsche.

Also Maserati is well known for their GT cars which are more akin to Aston Martin.
If you look at price of used ones mid rear engine Maserati models like Bora and Merak can't reach high price. Not high as their front engine cars.
From what I've heard Maserati enthusiasts are not warmed by read mid engine car news.

I just want to say that Alfieri was the right call for Maserati. Front engine model which would also be a pinnacle of their BEV lineup called Maserati Blue.
It could also take on Porsche 911. Why not? But with this plan Maserati has no 911 fighter.

So a plan with Alfa GTV and 8C but also Maserati Alfieri was in my opinion the right one. Also for such specialty projects sharing and badge engineering is a big NO!
 

AlfaCuda

Member
@Deckard Cain I agree. Going after the 4 series is a no brainer.
I personally think the Maserati brand is better equipped to go after the 911. The 911 is an automotive institution. Built over many decades to near perfection and only very rarely did they get it slightly wrong. In contrast the AR brand has been mismanaged for decades. And although the Giulia rewrote the class I would think it will be a little too challenging to take on the 911. Maserati can do that.
Alfa can go after the Cayman/Boxter market with a better resolved more daily usable 4C.

Let’s hope Tavares goes for it.
 

Bili

Moderator
Staff member
Alfa can go after the Cayman/Boxter market with a better resolved more daily usable 4C.
No, they can't because autoclave carbon fiber shell costs a lot. I think they lost large sum of money on every 4C.
 

AlfaCuda

Member
Maserati models like Bora and Merak can't reach high price. Not high as their front engine cars.
Those two are from Maserati’s dark era under Citroen management. Underdeveloped and badly built. They’ll always be behind the 911 and Ferrari 308s.
However Maserati has image and mystique to go after the 911. Definitely more than Aston Martin or Jaguar does.
 

AlfaCuda

Member
No, they can't because autoclave carbon fiber shell costs a lot. I think they lost large sum of money on every 4C.
Yes I’m aware. That’s why I said it should be a more everyday kind of sports car. With lots of equipment. Not simply a track tool.
 

Bili

Moderator
Staff member
Those two are from Maserati’s dark era under Citroen management. Underdeveloped and badly built. They’ll always be behind the 911 and Ferrari 308s.
However Maserati has image and mystique to go after the 911. Definitely more than Aston Martin or Jaguar does.
Yes I’m aware. That’s why I said it should be a more everyday kind of sports car. With lots of equipment. Not simply a track tool.
The question is. What FCA could offer to counter 911? Which kind of product. Platform, engine, form factor.
In current plans I don't see 911 competitor.

And I'm not sure that cancelled Alfa GTV was planned as direct BMW 4 Coupe competitor. GTV with 625 HP was planned. That's not BMW's ballpark. At least not for 4 Coupe.


http://instagr.am/p/B47BRnVJrjt/
Make sure your sound is on for that one.

IMO, a lot is lost. And I'm not sure if that's a sound of old naturally aspirated 4.7 V6 or an upcoming TT V6 90°.

In any case all new carbon fiber rear mind engine Maserati will go in production next May.
 

Deckard Cain

Active member
Yes I’m aware. That’s why I said it should be a more everyday kind of sports car. With lots of equipment. Not simply a track tool.
Exactly. Make a new 4C that is something more than just a track toy.
They just have to look at the Alpine A110 as an example to follow. Actually, it's a shame that the merger with Renault didn't go forward because we could've gotten a new 4 sharing the underpinnings of the Alpine.
 
Anyone here remember the Dodge Circuit concept from a decade ago? It was basically a copy of the Tesla roadster, even using a Lotus glider. I would love to see an electrified Alfa 4C. It wouldn't be cheap, but people who buy that sort of car are willing to pay more.
 

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