Tipo MCA is coming...

[Bili]

I know that around the web we had seen a wild rumors that Tipo is dead but that's just not true.

Not only that but this year should start production of a Tipo MCA. MCA as usually stands for a Mid Cycle Action. Information about this can be found in official Tofas documents.
https://tofas.com.tr/en/InvestorRel...Documents/AnalystPresentationDecember2019.pdf
✓ Strong profitability with 80bps expansion in PBT margin reaching to 7.7% in 2019. Healthy cash conversion with operating cash flow at ~2.5x net income last year.
✓ Accomplished domestic light vehicle market leadership with sizable market share gains in 2019. Fiat was the only brand registering volume growth in passenger car market, thanks to sustained leading position of Egea.
✓ Tofas plant achieved the highest score in World Class Manufacturing (i.e. quality, cost, delivery, safety, environment) among 400 plants under WCM umbrella within FCA universe in Dec’19.
✓ The extension of MCV (mini cargo vehicle) contract for three years until the end of 2024.
✓ Egea/Tipo facelift investment is on track with the production of new versions expected to begin in 4Q20.

It seems that total production is around 150k units per year for both 2018 and 2019. What they've lost in EU they've regained in Turkey.

Even Mike Manley said that GSE engines will be offered in Tipo and he was talking about this year.

In addition to this I may say that Uconnect 5 will be offered in Tipo including 10" unit.

 

[kisty]

I know that around the web we had seen a wild rumors that Tipo is dead but that's just not true.

Not only that but this year should start production of a Tipo MCA. MCA as usually stands for a Mid Cycle Action. Information about this can be found in official Tofas documents.
https://tofas.com.tr/en/InvestorRel...Documents/AnalystPresentationDecember2019.pdf
✓ Strong profitability with 80bps expansion in PBT margin reaching to 7.7% in 2019. Healthy cash conversion with operating cash flow at ~2.5x net income last year.
✓ Accomplished domestic light vehicle market leadership with sizable market share gains in 2019. Fiat was the only brand registering volume growth in passenger car market, thanks to sustained leading position of Egea.
✓ Tofas plant achieved the highest score in World Class Manufacturing (i.e. quality, cost, delivery, safety, environment) among 400 plants under WCM umbrella within FCA universe in Dec’19.
✓ The extension of MCV (mini cargo vehicle) contract for three years until the end of 2024.
✓ Egea/Tipo facelift investment is on track with the production of new versions expected to begin in 4Q20.

It seems that total production is around 150k units per year for both 2018 and 2019. What they've lost in EU they've regained in Turkey.

Even Mike Manley said that GSE engines will be offered in Tipo and he was talking about this year.

In addition to this I may say that Uconnect 5 will be offered in Tipo including 10" unit.

well done tofas:
Tofas plant achieved the highest score in World Class Manufacturing (i.e. quality, cost, delivery, safety, environment) among 400 plants under WCM umbrella within FCA universe in Dec’19.

Good find.

 

[Deckard Cain]

What about the rumor they'll launch a Tipo Cross version?

 

[Bili]

Dunno nothing about Tipo cross but Tipo based SUV was promised to dealers. But a lot was promised.

 

[Deckard Cain]

Well, a Tipo Cross would probably just mean adding some palstic cladding, raise the suspension height and call it a day so I can see them doing that minimum effort and then call it a SUV.

 

[Deckard Cain]

Olivier Francois said to Argus that the Tipo won't continue to exist past this generation though. I don't understand this.

 

[KrisW]

Olivier Francois said to Argus that the Tipo won't continue to exist past this generation though. I don't understand this.

I'd put that down to declining demand in Western Europe for the body type, and a need for Tipo's (not Egea's) successor to be an EV. Tipo will probably continue into 2025, but whatever follows it will need to work up to 2030-2035.

✓ The extension of MCV (mini cargo vehicle) contract for three years until the end of 2024.

Interesting. No suggestion of consolidating on the PSA van. (A good move - I think the Doblo is the superior product)

The LCV market threw up a few ironies for FCA and PSA: FCA left a PSA-led initiative in order to replace Scudo with the Renault-led Talento, a vehicle which Opel was also selling. Opel got sold to PSA, who then pulled Opel out of that deal, to break a dependency on Renault and also to use Opel's volume to fill the hole left by FIAT's departure. But then, FCA merges with PSA, so the combined company again finds itself with a product made by PSA's mortal enemy, Renault-Nissan. On the smaller van, Doblo's Opel sister-product was pulled out of the FCA/Tofas deal by PSA, but now FCA-PSA is part-owner of that venture...

In hindsight, if everyone had stayed where they were, a lot of money would have been saved...

 

[Bili]

Olivier Francois said to Argus that the Tipo won't continue to exist past this generation though. I don't understand this.

L'Argus... BTW I think that mister Francois should be fired.

I'd put that down to declining demand in Western Europe for the body type, and a need for Tipo's (not Egea's) successor to be an EV. Tipo will probably continue into 2025, but whatever follows it will need to work up to 2030-2035.

I think that contract runs up till 2023 or 2024. And it's an extremely strong seller than Turkey. Actually Tipo helped Fiat to rise total volume in Turkey for 2019 even if market had declined.

Interesting. No suggestion of consolidating on the PSA van. (A good move - I think the Doblo is the superior product)

In my opinion PSA LCV products are "gentle". They are let's say very unreliable, not designed as a workhorse.
For example not suitable for high payload as FCA designed products.
Or engines which are straight up adoption of car engines. I'd heard more than once stories of overheated PSA diesel engines on Boxer when you keep it for the long time in neutral. FCA/Iveco F1 engines are designed for medium duty, PSA engines aren't.

In the past most of the PSA LCV line-up was sold only on price. I don't know today's trend.

Speaking about Scudo and its replacement Talento. I think that FCA was not happy with PSA JV deal and they left it.
At the time they had another option. LCV product based on a new Chrysler Pacifica. We know why they've skipped it. Import tax.

New Fiat Doblo should be a Project 275. Of course any new joint FCA-PSA project can't start before 2021.

 

[Deckard Cain]

I'd put that down to declining demand in Western Europe for the body type, and a need for Tipo's (not Egea's) successor to be an EV. Tipo will probably continue into 2025, but whatever follows it will need to work up to 2030-2035.

You mean the biggest segment in Europe? Yeah seems legit.
There's no consistency in Fiat products. Even successful models get the axe instead of keeping a consistent cadence of new generations. If they actually don't keep the Tipo name after this generation, which garnered a lot of positive feedback, I think they're shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[pumadog]

Workhorse qualities aside - I think the PSA vehicles like Berlingo and Spacetourer are much better looking, acceptable as passenger versions. Doblo and Talento are pretty ugly. Why did Fiat change the name from Scudo? Because they do whenever they can?

 

[Deckard Cain]

Bili hates PSA so he'll bash them whenever possible.

 

[pumadog]

Then the merger won't bring much fun for him.

When deciding between PSA and Renault, I haven't driven much of their recent cars. Loved the R5 as a child, drove a Kangoo XL a couple of years ago, drove and loved the 205 when it was current, hated the x07 styling Peugeot era, thought the Citroens were pretty bland between XM and Cactus, had a C3 as a rental in 2018 and preferred it much over the Clio which we rented at the same time. If you want a small van as a camper or daily driver, I think the new PSA offerings are the only alternative to the VW T6 if you don't want to look like a plumber. So I'm okay with PSA.

 

[Bili]

@Deckard Cain

AFAIK European compact hatchback/SW/sedan segment slipped to 3rd place in 2019. Both compact and subcompact C segment overtake it. So no doubt that both B and C segment SUV are priority for Alfa Romeo.

I hate PSA? Maybe yes, maybe not. It depends on what are you looking at when you are buying a car. PSA had never been strong in mechanical department. They are very gentle. Unreliable and imprecise manual transmission. A lot of issues with their diesel engines in LCV vehicles because they are only light duty engine conversions and not a true medium duty engine like Iveco F1 family. And so on.

 

[kisty]

@Deckard Cain
I hate PSA? Maybe yes, maybe not. It depends on what are you looking at when you are buying a car. PSA had never been strong in mechanical department. They are very gentle. Unreliable and imprecise manual transmission. A lot of issues with their diesel engines in LCV vehicles because they are only light duty engine conversions and not a true medium duty engine like Iveco F1 family. And so on.

a very personal opinion, without concrete evidence

 

[Deckard Cain]

Exactly... Bili just proved my point.
Anyway, I don't know how they managed to get such good market performance in Europe if they're such crap. Anyway, they're the ones being absorbed into FCA so I don't think there's a big issue there.

 

[Bili]

a very personal opinion, without concrete evidence

That's always an opinion. It's not something which can be measured.

But if it's opposite that would be a news to me.

Exactly... Bili just proved my point.
Anyway, I don't know how they managed to get such good market performance in Europe if they're such crap. Anyway, they're the ones being absorbed into FCA so I don't think there's a big issue there.

Pony show?

In modern times people are less and less thinking with their own head.

BTW. Another cost cutting in PSA world. The newest version of 1.2 EB engine doesn't have hydraulic valve tappets.