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The Hellcat V8’s Days Are Numbered

patfromigh

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Anyone wanting a traditional muscle car should buy one soon. The window of opportunity is closing. I use the term traditional to mean non-electrified. Electrification or electrified means any sort of electric motor power to drive the wheels. An electric motor either provides all the power or assists an IC engine. The mild hybrid DT Rams pickups with BSG are electrified because the generator (the "G" of BSG) adds some power into the drivetrain, although it is a small amount. Battery electric vehicles (BEV) don't have IC engines, such as a Tesla or Mustang Mach E.

Our best glimpse of the future can be seen in the 48V mild hybrid Maserati models and the plugin hybrid Jeep Wrangler 4Xe. Both vehicles use different versions of the GME T4. When the 3rd generation Hemi was introduced in the Lx cars it was rated 340 to 350 hp. The four cylinder in the Maserati mild hybrid has 330hp. The Wrangler 4Xe has 470 ft/lbs of torque in its total power output.

There are others here on this forum with much more information and knowledge than I have. From what I understand, the Charger and Challenger will continue. I don't know what the future of the Hemi is. In a matter of weeks Stellantis should reveal more once the new senior management tours Auburn Hills and we should know the future a little better.
 

Mopar392

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I’m not against hybridization as long as they don’t kill the V8’s.
You might get the power of a V8 out of a hybrid 4pots, but there is a feel to the V8 that you won’t get.
 

TripleT

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CNBC ........ HA.... yeah not a real source
 

KrisW

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The GME Inline 6-cylinder Turbo is the replacement for the "regular" V8s. But, things aren't so bad for the big engines: if more of the main product line shifts to the smaller, lighter I6, that gives the company more leeway under the CAFE limits to sell big-output V8 models to enthusiasts. It's a win-win: if you want the big V8, it'll be easier to buy one, but for most people who really just want the power and would like better economy too, the smaller engine is hard to argue against - especially with hybrid assistance.
 

patfromigh

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The fate of the Hemi will depend on what happens with Ram Trucks. The economy of scale provided by the truck V8 numbers supports the V8 installation for Dodge muscle.

Will Ram offer gas electric hybrids beyond 48V? There is also a lot of uncharted space in the medium-duty truck GVW ranges. If Ram wants to stay relevant to municipal fleets then they should be offering some type of plugin vehicle for each weight class

Cox Automotive (Of which Rivian has some financial interest.) performed a survey on battery electric trucks preferences among potential buyers. Price was by far at the top of the list while horsepower was near the bottom. (Link> Consumer Snapshot: Electric Pickup Trucks - Cox Automotive Inc. )Keep in in mind none of the vehicles in the survey are in production. What I get out of this is a PHEV pickup with decent battery only range should sell well.

In conclusion, and this is only my opinion, hybrid Hemi trucks will provide some economy of scale for potential V8 muscle. Most likely the muscle cars will also be hybrids.
 

redriderbob

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The GME Inline 6-cylinder Turbo is the replacement for the "regular" V8s. But, things aren't so bad for the big engines: if more of the main product line shifts to the smaller, lighter I6, that gives the company more leeway under the CAFE limits to sell big-output V8 models to enthusiasts. It's a win-win: if you want the big V8, it'll be easier to buy one, but for most people who really just want the power and would like better economy too, the smaller engine is hard to argue against - especially with hybrid assistance.

GME-T6 HO will make its debut this fall in the Wagoneer
 

Deckard Cain

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In 10 years time you won't have more petrol engines let alone big petrol engines.
 

Bili

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In 10 years time you won't have more petrol engines let alone big petrol engines.

You think? And no power supply shortages? Common. I'm pro-electrification but all electric or all BEV is one of the dumbest ideas ever if the goal it to go full electric by 2035.
 

TripleT

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In 10 years time you won't have more petrol engines let alone big petrol engines.

12 pack of cookie on that.... USA doesn't have the capacity or infrastructure to support it in 10 years. California can barely keep the factories going in the Summer.
 

TripleT

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Toyota CEO Agrees With Elon Musk: We Don't Have Enough Electricity to Electrify All the Cars

CEO’s disdain for EVs boils down to his belief they’ll ruin businesses, require massive investments, and even emit more carbon dioxide than combustion-engined vehicles. “The current business model of the car industry is going to collapse,” he said. “The more EVs we build, the worse carbon dioxide gets… When politicians are out there saying, ‘Let’s get rid of all cars using gasoline,’ do they understand this?”

Wall Street Journal.
 
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patfromigh

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The US Department of Energy promotes and funds research for new technologies while seeking solutions to our energy and environmental problems. There is a broad spectrum of research areas being examined. Battery electric vehicles with some hydrogen fuel-cell electric large vehicles mixed is in no way close to the entire solution. There are no panaceas. Scientists and engineers continue to research avenues of technology involving internal combustion engines and alternative energy.

The authoritarian impulse found in some politicians and bureaucrats tends to create more problems than solve them. I believe electrification is a good thing despite some of the costs involved. The conceptual plan for automotive electrification originally was that as more electric vehicles were marketed, the supporting infrastructure would grow. Then more people would be exposed to battery electric and hybrid vehicles, and as consumers saw the advantages of hybrids and EVs, they would purchase such vehicles.

Schemes to force the public out of cars by artificially restricting petroleum supplies and mandating battery electric vehicles sends a a message to consumers. "Electric vehicles are not that good, so we are forcing you into one."

Our local weather forecasters are predicting a polar vortex to move in, centering itself over Lake Superior. Temperatures will plunge to well below Zero Degrees F, starting this weekend and staying low well into next week. If I make the choice to own an electric vehicle the weather is my problem. If municipal fleets are forced to use EVs for law enforcement, snow plowing and refuse collection, then the weather becomes everyones' problem.
 

Deckard Cain

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Power grids won’t be able to take that much load.
They will.
You just need enough batteries for peak demand, vehicle-to-grid. Offshore wind produces more power in the opposite times of onshore wind (so they complement each other), and solar also helps. Couple that with nuclear and hydro for base load and there you go.
 

TripleT

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They will.
You just need enough batteries for peak demand, vehicle-to-grid. Offshore wind produces more power in the opposite times of onshore wind (so they complement each other), and solar also helps. Couple that with nuclear and hydro for base load and there you go.

your around 75% short in North America.... Maybe you don't know but the environmentalists have killed both new Nuclear and Hydro here so its not even close. It way more than 12 years away. There isn't enough rare earth elements for batteries for the instant demand you a proposing so not only that a new battery tech would have to be not only developed but fully scaled by that time.

Basically the cart is way in front of the horse. If fact the regulatory authoritarians have sent the cart down the hill the technology and the infrastructure are at the top of hill wondering if it even worth chasing.
 

Deckard Cain

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I'm talking with an european perspective in mind. Granted that the US has been dragging their feet. But to me that's no excuse because you have enormous natural resources available.
 

TripleT

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Geeee not to be snotty.... but we are talking about the Hemi V8s which the primary market in North America.

Yes we have huge natural resources. Oil and Natural gas to point that we can allow the more efficient alternative to enter the market naturally not forced on people.

it is quite arrogant to presume ones solution is that best, and that in light of massive natural input on such as the Sun, cosmic radiation, earth axis tilt, path around the sun, and over whelming natural gases emissions all variable and none ever static ........ trying to regulate the trace of a trace green house gas that we are nothing but Nazcans drawing lines in the desert to bring rain.

No excuses needed.
 

Mopar392

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They will.
You just need enough batteries for peak demand, vehicle-to-grid. Offshore wind produces more power in the opposite times of onshore wind (so they complement each other), and solar also helps. Couple that with nuclear and hydro for base load and there you go.


I'm talking with an european perspective in mind. Granted that the US has been dragging their feet. But to me that's no excuse because you have enormous natural resources available.

Europe, US or even Middle East with the current enforcing of their CAFE standards, the power demand needed for the Plug-in or Electric cars far exceed the power production. At least not at the current push rate we are witnessing from multiple governments and parties.

Even Europe is still relying on natural resources imported from Russia and other OPEC countries.

As much as I love green energy, as much as I know we are still going to rely on natural resources at the current level of our life style and energy consumption.
 

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