The Detroit News - Next Dodge Challenger will get electric-motor boost

[Muther]

That's not true. Actually it's impossible.

Correct. I went back an read the release. It’s 25% of Volkswagen production to be BEV by 2025, with the aim to be 100% by 2030.

 

[Muther]

I'm referring to alternative-fuel sources like hydrogen.

Hydrogen, for now, is a total non-starter. The research money for motive power/mobile energy storage is almost completely going into batteries, and the majority of that into solid state electrolyte lithium.

The solid state sodiums are next level intriguing, but those are quite a ways off.

 

[AlexB]

I don’t think any others are viable alternatives as much as they are money-wasting science projects.

Hydrogen, for now, is a total non-starter. The research money for motive power/mobile energy storage is almost completely going into batteries, and the majority of that into solid state electrolyte lithium.

The solid state sodiums are next level intriguing, but those are quite a ways off.

Is it me, or was Manley talking a "separate generation" Challenger-Charger given the timeframe(2024-2025) and platform. Could FCA be working on two Callengers-Chargers at once with the 2025 models being the radically change in the "formula".

 

[Bili]

Correct. I went back an read the release. It’s 25% of Volkswagen production to be BEV by 2025, with the aim to be 100% by 2030.

Automotive news:

DETROIT -- Volkswagen Group CEO Herbert Diess warned that the European Union’s proposed emissions target for 2030 is too demanding and the resulting push to EVs could make motoring too expensive for some consumers.

Diess said VW Group will be able to comply with the EU's average fleet carbon dioxide emissions of around 60 grams per km by 2030 by boosting sales of its full-electric cars to between 45 percent to 50 percent of the group's total volume. But he warned: "I am not sure how many customers could afford it."

Buyers of premium cars will be able to afford more expensive EVs, "but I am not sure about a broader customer base," Diess told reporters on the sidelines of the Detroit auto show last week.

As examples, Diess said the retail price of a VW Up minicar that could rise in price by about 3,500 euros to 14,500 euros to be compliant with the 2030 emissions target. The price for the small Polo model could rise by 4,000 euros, he said.

“I am not sure how many customers could still afford our entry level models,” Diess said.

Diess noted that France's "yellow vest" protests were sparked by a 10-euro cent increase in the price of diesel fuel.

Another implication of electrification will be the effect on jobs, Diess said.

If about half of VW's vehicle sales are electric cars, VW would have to reduce by half the number of plants building internal combustion powertrains.

This will take VW's production restructuring "well beyond what we have already began discussing with the German unions,” Diess said.

VW is well placed with its new MEB modular architecture for mass production of full-electric cars and expects between 15 percent and 18 percent of its European sales by 2025 to be battery-powered models, Diess said.

However, he sees the 2030 CO2 reduction target as "too demanding." Europe also lacks a coordinated approach to the development of a necessary recharging infrastructure, Diess said.

 

[Rustydodge]

Mustang Hybrid Could Utilize a V8 With An Electric Front Axle

This is what i actually thought an ideal new electric challenger would look like. V8 RWD with electric FWD. Surprised they would get this patent granted, with other hybrid supercars utilizing a similar strategy.

To quote the other mopainsiders article:
"We also know FCA has been hard at work on their next generation powertrains. FCA US has been working on their “GME-T6” motor. This engine is 3.X-liters in displacement and will be a turbo inline-six cylinder engine. FCA released some data about a couple of the systems that our source have said that the new GME-T6 engines will use. One of which is called, E-Booster. E-Booster is for turbocharged engines that uses electronics to assist in building up boost pressure so there is zero turbo lag.

Alfa Romeo 5-Year Plan Presentation. (Alfa Romeo).
But we wouldn’t doubt that the new GME-T6 engine program will also have options like eTorque available as well.

So while some of the media is saying that it sounds like the 6.2-liter Supercharged HEMI HELLCAT V8 is out of the picture in the future, it is still very much a key powertrain well into the mid-2020s. FCA has already announced a HELLCAT-powered Ram TRX coming in 2022. We have even heard about another FCA vehicle getting equipped with the 700+ horsepower engine in 2021 (more details to follow)."

So, regarding the part in bold - my thought immediately goes to a send off for the Durango before it goes BOF.

 

[Bili]

They can patented it?

 

[Rustydodge]

They can patented it?

Apparently the application was submitted in 2017...not sure if the patent has been granted.

 

[Bili]

Apparently the application was submitted in 2017...not sure if the patent has been granted.

Although I must say that FCA would use an e-axle and not electric motor for each wheel.
For a example Renegade PHEV and Amy subsequent FWD based PHEV will have a rear e-axle. But some performance PHEV models from FCA like Maserati Alfieri will have front e-axle.

But still I can't believe that this can be patented. It will be crazy... Unprecedented in my opinion.

 

[Rustydodge]

Although I must say that FCA would use an e-axle and not electric motor for each wheel.
For a example Renegade PHEV and Amy subsequent FWD based PHEV will have a rear e-axle. But some performance PHEV models from FCA like Maserati Alfieri will have front e-axle.

But still I can't believe that this can be patented. It will be crazy... Unprecedented in my opinion.

Depends on what specific things they are claiming. Could just be a unique way of mounting the electric motors, for example. Something that could be easily designed around.

 

[HotCarNut]

Not sure why Dodge looking at electrification for the muscle cars is a surprise. Ferrari made a hybrid hypercar a priority. If it's technology that enhances performance (and not just fuel economy) then I'm all for it. It's like the crowd that argued against electronic fuel injection as that technology was coming up to speed. Sure, the early hybrids were all focused on fuel economy. Now? C'mon....who wouldn't love a hybrid Wrangler with electric motors in each wheel for additional instant torque? Look at the hybrid supercars that have been released over the last 5 years. Watch a Tesla drag race. Can you really say that electric motors don't offer certain advantages (ie - instant torque) that allow for the overall system to be tuned differently for a higher max result?

I'm a performance guy. I don't want the V8 rumble to go away, but if electric motors can help and the reliability is there....

 

[Bili]

Ferrari made a hybrid hypercar a priority.

Ferrari has a very clear plan. All future products will be electrified. Future as a next generation or all new products. In the meantime they will have some refreshes of the current line-up.
But for mid engine models V6 will replace V8. And top of the line mid engine product will have a V8 and it will not be a unique product as it is now.

Watch a Tesla drag race.

IMO. Not a best example. 1st time it's excellent but then...

I'm a performance guy. I don't want the V8 rumble to go away, but if electric motors can help and the reliability is there....

What can replace a supercharger with limited additional weight? In my opinion that's a electric supercharger with P2 electric motor. Classic turbo should be there for mid to high rpm.

 

[HotCarNut]

Ferrari has a very clear plan. All future products will be electrified. Future as a next generation or all new products. In the meantime they will have some refreshes of the current line-up.
But for mid engine models V6 will replace V8. And top of the line mid engine product will have a V8 and it will not be a unique product as it is now.

This is going to be the trend for ALL future performance models thanks to CAFE and CARB. Smaller displacement, fewer cylinders, forced induction, and hybrid setup to make up the difference.

IMO. Not a best example. 1st time it's excellent but then...

The example was for pure performance. I could have picked a number of new electric supercars that do the same thing. I'm not an "all-electric" guy by any means, but those results have swayed me that the motors and batteries, if done right, can add to performance as much or more than increasing displacement alone.

What can replace a supercharger with limited additional weight? In my opinion that's a electric supercharger with P2 electric motor. Classic turbo should be there for mid to high rpm.

Similar to the supercharger and turbo setups where they're used in conjunction? What was it called - TwinCharged maybe? Pairing the supercharger and turbo has been (and is being) done. Don't think there's a hybrid with that tech right now though, but there may be....

 

[Mopar392]

What can replace a supercharger with limited additional weight? In my opinion that's a electric supercharger with P2 electric motor. Classic turbo should be there for mid to high rpm.

That’s what I don’t mind hybridization in the form of an e-booster for a mad lunch off the line and then the traditional supercharger takes over.

 

[MoparJoe]

electric turbo down low, till the big turbo spools up ... that sounds logical ...

 

[Bili]

Similar to the supercharger and turbo setups where they're used in conjunction? What was it called - TwinCharged maybe? Pairing the supercharger and turbo has been (and is being) done. Don't think there's a hybrid with that tech right now though, but there may be....

Twincharger. Became famous though Lancia rally cars. That was in 1985.
In 2005 VW came out with 1.4 TSI with a twincharger. Never offered in US.
Currently Volvo is offering 2.0 with a twincharger and it's offered in US.

Schematically this is identical but in this case supercharger is electric, it's run by electricity. There must be an electric motor. Usually it's a P2 type. And exactly that is offered by Mercedes in their 3.0 Inline 6. But that's not a performance engine.

 

[James.A]

FCA CEO Mike Manley Talks About Electrified Dodge Challenger: - Mopar Insiders

This may be slightly off topic but, it seems like we should be seeing these cars in the next year to year and a half (assuming these are 2021 cars that will debut and go into production before 2021), do you think we'll see any unofficial pics or details on design between now and the mid 2020's? Or are things so tightly under wraps that we'll see nothing before an official debut?

 

[Mopar392]

Last I know, Jeep Grand Cherokee WK3/WL is a MY2020. So, we should see the car as early as April and as late as August. With this we will see the next 6 cylinder engine and what would become of the Hellcat engine.

I wouldn’t expect to see the next Charger/Challenger until Summer 2020.

 

[Bili]

Last I know, Jeep Grand Cherokee WK3/WL is a MY2020.

Are you sure?

I'm expecting it in 2020 at the earliest.

 

[Mopar392]

Are you sure?

I'm expecting it in 2020 at the earliest.

Someone said it will delayed until MY21.

 

[Bili]

Someone said it will delayed until MY21.

I'm talking about calendar year. So it's a MY21.

Actually almost all if not all non US people are talking about calendar years.