Stellantis Electric Vehicle Day on July 8, 1 hour before Wall Street open

[Deckard Cain]

Yes, FCA was an expert in waiting, delaying and cancelling. I give you that.
They always had great excuses, I mean, reasons for that.

37km is already a perfectly good range for PHEVs in Europe and it would've guaranteed plenty of sales for Giulia/Stelvio.

 

[AlexB]

FCA had a very serious problem with execution. So, I will not criticize a plan that make take Alfa in a different direction than a plan that never came to fruition and suffered countless delays. That to me is much worse, and it's what is killing Alfa Romeo.
If they launch 10 new vehicles, with 7 being subpar but 2 or 3 are excellent, that to me is much more worth it than launching two vehicles of 6 or 7 planned with the others cancelled or delayed indefinitely.

Yes, FCA was an expert in waiting, delaying and cancelling. I give you that.
They always had great excuses, I mean, reasons for that.

37km is already a perfectly good range for PHEVs in Europe and it would've guaranteed plenty of sales for Giulia/Stelvio.

Richard Palmer (16 years as CFO starting with Sergio) would disagree with that, and as recently as May stated delaying products is part being efficient with capital.

 

[AlexB]

With FCA, we got Guilia, Stlevio and we were about to get Tonale. Yes, there were a lot of delays and a lot of shelved programs.
With PSA, Alfa might go back to be just another FWD vehicle that is just a bit premium, and it’s everybody guess of what actually is STLA Medium.

STLA Medium is the underpinnings of next Pacifica and Compass.

 

[Bili]

Are you sure that we'll see next gen Pacifica?

 

[AlexB]

Are you sure that we'll see next gen Pacifica?

It fits in the 10 years redesign window.
Unless a axe is getting sharpened…

 

[Deckard Cain]

STLA Medium is the underpinnings of next Pacifica and Compass.

STLA Medium is the underpinning of all new compact and midsize product in Europe, it makes sense to use it for the Pacifica as well.

 

[Deckard Cain]

Richard Palmer (16 years as CFO starting with Sergio) would disagree with that, and as recently as May stated delaying products is part being efficient with capital.

There are many ways to be efficient with capital. And many ways to maximize return on invested capital. I cannot access the calculations they did at the time, but at least in Europe plenty of poor decisions were made that failed to maximize invested capital.

 

[AlexB]

There are many ways to be efficient with capital. And many ways to maximize return on invested capital. I cannot access the calculations they did at the time, but at least in Europe plenty of poor decisions were made that failed to maximize invested capital.

FCA did under invest in Europe, and addition PSA gained scale with Opel hand off, and therefore the upper hand in Europe.
But for luxury/premium, both Carlos have been unsuccessful with Infiniti at Renault-Nissan Alliance.

 

[Mopar392]

STLA Medium is the underpinnings of next Pacifica and Compass.

So what exactly is STLA Medium ? Is it a renamed PSA’s platform or modified PSA’s platform like one of the reports suggested?

 

[Mopar392]

Does anyone have any idea about what Dodge will reveal?

Tune in July-8 as Tim said

DODGE TO TEASE NEW PRODUCT ON JULY 8, COULD BE HYBRID OR ELECTRIC MUSCLE CAR

Dodge CEO Tim Kuniskis hinted that a new muscle car product will be teased on July 8, and will likely debut around the 2021 SEMA Show.

www.musclecarsandtrucks.com

 

[AlexB]

So what exactly is STLA Medium ? Is it a renamed PSA’s platform or modified PSA’s platform like one of the reports suggested?

From what I understand, it is a mortification of ECMP planned platform.

 

[AlexB]

Tune in July-8 as Tim said

DODGE TO TEASE NEW PRODUCT ON JULY 8, COULD BE HYBRID OR ELECTRIC MUSCLE CAR

Dodge CEO Tim Kuniskis hinted that a new muscle car product will be teased on July 8, and will likely debut around the 2021 SEMA Show.

www.musclecarsandtrucks.com

That will be on the main media item of Carlos’s presentation.

 

[Deckard Cain]

FCA did under invest in Europe, and addition PSA gained scale with Opel hand off, and therefore the upper hand in Europe.
But for luxury/premium, both Carlos have been unsuccessful with Infiniti at Renault-Nissan Alliance.

He was more successful with DS than FCA with Alfa in Europe. Pretty telling of what the FCA strategy for Alfa led to.
The DS7 Crossback sells double the numbers of the Stelvio (which by the way is selling even less now than the Macan and F-Pace).

Anyone can rant and rave about the strategy that Stellantis might implement for Alfa Romeo. Although the Giulia and the Stelvio are great products, the strategy that originated them was aborted almost after they were launched. The Tonale wasn't supposed to come out before the E-segment sedan and SUV.
If the strategy is launching FWD Alfas, but that ensures that we actually get Alfa cars instead of renders then I'm all for it.

Are the platforms from PSA inferior? Maybe. Did FCA do anything with their superior platforms to justify using them instead? No.
If you want to talk about capital then tell me: how much would it cost to re-adapt all the PSA plants to use the FCA platforms that are producing at full steam?
How much does it cost to adapt the under-used FCA plants?

FCA strategy placed Alfa and the other european brands in this situation, so for Bare: if you want to lay blame at the feet of someone for what's coming place at the feet of who mismanaged the european side of FCA. That someone was Marchionne.

 

[Bili]

He was more successful with DS than FCA with Alfa in Europe.

Simply not true. Much lower ATP. Apple and cucumbers.

 

[AlexB]

He was more successful with DS than FCA with Alfa in Europe. Pretty telling of what the FCA strategy for Alfa led to.
The DS7 Crossback sells double the numbers of the Stelvio (which by the way is selling even less now than the Macan and F-Pace).

Anyone can rant and rave about the strategy that Stellantis might implement for Alfa Romeo. Although the Giulia and the Stelvio are great products, the strategy that originated them was aborted almost after they were launched. The Tonale wasn't supposed to come out before the E-segment sedan and SUV.
If the strategy is launching FWD Alfas, but that ensures that we actually get Alfa cars instead of renders then I'm all for it.

Are the platforms from PSA inferior? Maybe. Did FCA do anything with their superior platforms to justify using them instead? No.
If you want to talk about capital then tell me: how much would it cost to re-adapt all the PSA plants to use the FCA platforms that are producing at full steam?
How much does it cost to adapt the under-used FCA plants?

FCA strategy placed Alfa and the other european brands in this situation, so for Bare: if you want to lay blame at the feet of someone for what's coming place at the feet of who mismanaged the european side of FCA. That someone was Marchionne.

Look, I’m giving Carlos a chance, while realizing he won’t be around to see the final outcomes of his decisions.
But @Bili puts perfectly about concerns of brand character and brand identity which will ruin any cost savings with weaker revenue per model/no pricing leverage-power highly important when selling EV technology.

 

[Deckard Cain]

Simply not true. Much lower ATP. Apple and cucumbers.

Is that lower ATP enough to generate profit? Is that higher ATP enough to generate profits?
Show me that data. ATP by itself says nothing. You talk ATP, I'll talk about product range.

DS now has a B-SUV, will soon get a C hatchback/SUV, has a D/E segment sedan, has a D-segment sedan and has an E-segment sedan coming. What would Alfa get with FCA?
A C-SUV for sure.

If I was a dealer I know which brand I would prefer to represent.

 

[Deckard Cain]

Look, I’m giving Carlos a chance, while realizing he won’t be around to see the final outcomes of his decisions.
But @Bili puts perfectly about concerns of brand character and brand identity which will ruin any cost savings with weaker revenue per model/no pricing leverage-power highly important when selling EV technology.

Bili raises some solid points, that much is obvious. I can't say I fully disagree with him. I'm also sad that there might be wasted potential.
IMO, it would make a lot more sense for the premium brands to use RWD architecture for their products.

But when you have a dying brand, I believe it is more important to guarantee its survival. And speculating that moving to a FWD architecture, or a supposedly "inferior" architecture will ruin Alfa is unfair. Some of the most iconic Alfa models from recent years were FWD.
Bili's problem is that he considers PSA's technical solutions inferior to FCA's. So his problem is: he's against full EVs, he's against using PSA's platforms. The future is going to be full EVs.
Since FCA never fully used their productive capacity to the full extent it is much easier to discard their technical solutions than PSA's technical solutions. This is a consequence of FCA poor management of the european side of the business.

 

[AlexB]

Carlos spoke in France to the French press:

“Stellantis also expects to announce later this month more stringent targets regarding its CO2 emissions in Europe, said Stellantis' CEO Carlos Tavares on Friday.” “talks were continuing with the Italian government over the possible construction of a new battery plant, or gigafactory, in Italy.”

Carmaker Stellantis: talks continue with Italian government over new factory

PARIS (Reuters) -Carmaker Stellantis said on Friday that talks were continuing with the Italian government over the possible construction of a new battery plant, or gigafactory, in Italy. Stellantis, which already has two battery factory projects in France and Germany, has said that adding...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Bili]

IMO, Carlos is too much French-centric as is Stellantis and their plans. BTW look the newest Renault BEV plan. And then compare it to Germans. Yuge difference.

@AlexB
Wasn't a switch to a half year financial results move away from Wall Street and push to a French standards?

 

[Bili]

Bili raises some solid points, that much is obvious. I can't say I fully disagree with him. I'm also sad that there might be wasted potential.
IMO, it would make a lot more sense for the premium brands to use RWD architecture for their products.

Well... If any car model will be only BEV in the near future than the best is to use dedicated BEV platforms. With them weight could be lower and packaging will be more efficient.

Having Stellantis-like FWD or RWD based multienergy platform is good when the same product has multiple powertrain choices including BEV.



I would repeat. Late Sergio was spot on on what Alfa represents, about their products and on what they must focus. The bad part was cadence of unveil.

Thus I, more than once, said that the best practice would be to combine FCA's focus on a proper technical execution with PSA's push for more products. Focus solely on PSA's way could be for example good for Fiat and even for Lancia both not for Alfa or Jeep.